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why does 660ti beat 7950 so often?

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futurefields

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2012
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I see a lot of games benchmarks where 660ti handily beats the 7950, what is the reason there? The 7950 seems to have much better specs, is it all downto drivers? Are nvidia shaders that much powerful than amd shaders?
 
RussianSensation

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
759
126
HD7950 V2/boost is faster than 660Ti on average. Once HD7950 is overclocked, it's game over for the 660Ti. At 1035-1050mhz or so, the 7950 = GTX680. GTX660Ti cannot reach that speed while HD7950s often go to 1150+mhz. Some games run faster on NV cards due to better driver optimizations/game engine that runs faster on a particular architecture based on the strengths of that architecture. You aren't going to have every game where 7950 beats a 660Ti or vice versa.

You cannot directly compare specs between Kepler and GCN cards because you are then assuming each of the sub-components like TMUs, SPs, ROPs, memory bandwidth between 2 architectures are similarly efficient. This is not true. If you overclock your card, then it'll outperform the 660Ti OC in most cases because HD7950 has 25-30% overclocking headroom from 925mhz.
 
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bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
Mostly it is a matter of how much AA is being used in the test. If the test uses no AA and up to 4x MSAA at max, the 660ti does better than when they use 8x MSAA or higher.
 
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aaksheytalwar

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2012
3,389
0
76
bystander36 said:
Mostly it is a matter of how much AA is being used in the test. If the test uses no AA and up to 4x MSAA at max, the 660ti does better than when they use 8x MSAA or higher.
Click to expand...
Stop spreading BS. A 7950 can barely play today's games at 1080p without MSAA. And a 660Ti is worse.
 
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bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
aaksheytalwar said:
Stop spreading BS. A 7950 can barely play today's games at 1080p without MSAA. And a 660Ti is worse.
Click to expand...
Hopefully you read my post correctly. I did not say that the 660ti was faster than the 7950. I only said the 660ti has more favorable results when less AA is used.

Example:



If you go through the last year, you'll find a similar pattern with all Nvidia cards. AMD tends to do better on all their mid to high end cards, when high levels of AA is used.
 
hokies83

hokies83

Senior member
Oct 3, 2010
837
2
76
I have 3 7950s

1 does 1190mhz core

1 1255mhz core

1 1345mhz core

All boost cards that i got on sale for 249$ + selling crysis 3 / Bioshock when they were going for 30$ per game.. So i paid 190 = 195$ each for them..

And i know the 1255mhz card / 1345mhz card beat just about any 680 out there spare afew golden ones.

Stock HD7000 is not clocked very high... 850mhz.. Overclocking to say 1150mhz " which most do " is a real game changer.
 
Eureka

Eureka

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
3,822
1
81
bystander36 said:
Hopefully you read my post correctly. I did not say that the 660ti was faster than the 7950. I only said the 660ti has more favorable results when less AA is used.

Example:



If you go through the last year, you'll find a similar pattern with all Nvidia cards. AMD tends to do better on all their mid to high end cards, when high levels of AA is used.
Click to expand...
AA saturates the bandwidth and VRAM. 7950 has both better memory bandwidth and total memory.

Also note that a stock 7950 is rather slow. 850 Mhz on the clock. And it may be that those CUDA cores are slightly more flexible at gaming.

Either way, 7950s overclock to 1000 MHz+, and with a higher bandwidth and memory, outshines the 660 Ti afterwards.
 
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aaksheytalwar

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2012
3,389
0
76
When I say barely play I mean barely manage a minimum of 60 fps in the latest releases like TR, Crysis 2 and 3, Bioshock infinite, hitman etc
 
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bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
aaksheytalwar said:
When I say barely play I mean barely manage a minimum of 60 fps in the latest releases like TR, Crysis 2 and 3, Bioshock infinite, hitman etc
Click to expand...
The question posed, and the statement I made, has almost nothing to do with your statement.

That said, if you do have to drop to no AA for the requirements you have (and I have), that only makes the 660ti look better in comparison to most review sites, which usually use higher AA levels, and will review at settings that drop FPS to the 30's and lower.

That said, they are not OC comparisons.
 
R

raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
1,474
136
RussianSensation said:
HD7950 V2/boost is faster than 660Ti on average. Once HD7950 is overclocked, it's game over for the 660Ti. At 1035-1050mhz or so, the 7950 = GTX680. GTX660Ti cannot reach that speed while HD7950s often go to 1150+mhz. Some games run faster on NV cards due to better driver optimizations/game engine that runs faster on a particular architecture based on the strengths of that architecture. You aren't going to have every game where 7950 beats a 660Ti or vice versa.

You cannot directly compare specs between Kepler and GCN cards because you are then assuming each of the sub-components like TMUs, SPs, ROPs, memory bandwidth between 2 architectures are similarly efficient. This is not true. If you overclock your card, then it'll outperform the 660Ti OC in most cases because HD7950 has 25-30% overclocking headroom from 925mhz.
Click to expand...
well said. clock for clock HD 7950 is 3 - 6% slower than HD 7970. HD 7950(1100 Mhz) matches HD 7970 Ghz performance. HD 7950(1150 mhz) competes with GTX 670(1250 Mhz) and easily destroys a GTX 660 Ti even at 1.3 Ghz.

also in games which are bandwidth hungry like Metro 2033 (DOF with MSAA 4x), Sleeping Dogs with Extreme or High AA (uses SSAA), Crysis Warhead (8x MSAA) the Tahiti chips crush the Kepler equivalents.
 
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Attic

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
First the 660ti has turned out to be a pretty solid card despite initial concerns about its memory configuration. Though it did come out quite a bit, ~8months, after the 7950.

What separates them is overclocking and mem configurations where the 7950 is decidedly superior in both.
 
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rgallant

Golden Member
Apr 14, 2007
1,361
11
81
bystander36 said:
Hopefully you read my post correctly. I did not say that the 660ti was faster than the 7950. I only said the 660ti has more favorable results when less AA is used.

Example:



If you go through the last year, you'll find a similar pattern with all Nvidia cards. AMD tends to do better on all their mid to high end cards, when high levels of AA is used.
Click to expand...
-I always pick my settings for sub 40 fps because stutter adds so much to the game play
-really why post that shot.

edit*** even at $$ 20.00 a card they are unplayable and a waste of money at those settings
 
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bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
rgallant said:
-I always pick my settings for sub 40 fps because stutter adds so much to the game play
-really why post that shot.

edit*** even at $$ 20.00 a card they are unplayable and a waste of money at those settings
Click to expand...
Did you read the posts leading to that? I assume you did not.

The point was that AA on Nvidia cards hurts performance more than it does on AMD cards. Those two benchmarks with different AA settings demonstrate that well. The previous person I posted those for, said I was posting nonsense when I suggested that Nvidia cards perform more closely when low or non AA settings are used.

I personally would not use those settings, as I mentioned in the following post.
 
Unoid

Unoid

Senior member
Dec 20, 2012
461
0
76
hokies83 said:
I have 3 7950s

1 does 1190mhz core

1 1255mhz core

1 1345mhz core

All boost cards that i got on sale for 249$ + selling crysis 3 / Bioshock when they were going for 30$ per game.. So i paid 190 = 195$ each for them..

And i know the 1255mhz card / 1345mhz card beat just about any 680 out there spare afew golden ones.

Stock HD7000 is not clocked very high... 850mhz.. Overclocking to say 1150mhz " which most do " is a real game changer.
Click to expand...

so your 1345mhz 7950 will beat my 1250mhz 680?
 
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raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
1,474
136
hokies83 said:
Yes Cause it beats my 1300mhz 680.
Click to expand...
well said :thumbsup: . clock for clock HD 7970 > HD 7950 > GTX 680 > GTX 670. this is more as an avg across many games and not a particular game. this is well known to people who have tested cards from both camps.
 
Jacky60

Jacky60

Golden Member
Jan 3, 2010
1,123
0
0
Eureka said:
AA saturates the bandwidth and VRAM. 7950 has both better memory bandwidth and total memory.

Also note that a stock 7950 is rather slow. 850 Mhz on the clock. And it may be that those CUDA cores are slightly more flexible at gaming.

Either way, 7950s overclock to 1000 MHz+, and with a higher bandwidth and memory, outshines the 660 Ti afterwards.
Click to expand...
Those charts show a 3GB 660TI which isn't a typical 660ti so that's the best 660ti vs standard 7950. Neither card is doing very well and that benchmark strongly favours Nvidia. Whatever point you're making is poorly made.
 
dave_the_nerd

dave_the_nerd

Lifer
Feb 25, 2011
16,573
1,334
126
etrigan420 said:
Apparently you missed this then?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316391

:p

My contribution to the thread: None really.

My 6870 runs everything I throw at it at the resolution I play at (1920x1200)

*If* I were in the market for a new card, I'd probably throw a dart between the 660ti and the 7950.
Click to expand...
You can have my iPhone when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. That said, I threw that dart, and it hit a 660Ti. :biggrin:
 
F

Fx1

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2012
1,215
5
81
AMD really should have launched some Superclocked cards. 1300mhz 7970 in CF would be epic and likely still cheaper than 7990 and Titan.
 
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