Why do so many people think that we have a right to police and a military?

Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
A

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
Do the neocons really have a better argument about a strong military being a right than the left does about universal health care?

I don't think either side makes sense. They both require action on someone else's behalf, so therefore they're both collectivism. Collective policy gets abused, so having a military infringes upon the rights of the people just as much as having universal health care.

Could someone who disagrees with me explain why a military is any different from welfare? If you refuse to fund the military, then you get jailed. So it's not defense of society. In fact, it infringes upon the rights of society, since you get arrested if you choose not to fund it.
 
D

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
So are you insinuating that the function of the local police is to "protect" citizens from crime in the same fashion the military serves to defend the nation from external threats?

PS - Neocons are individuals who welcome a strong and large central government (this makes sense considering the movement itself was started by disillusioned liberals but is at odds with classical conservatism and libertarianism) and also have a desire for a strong interventionist foreign policy (at odds with libertarians but not classical conservatism).
 
Last edited:
D

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Capt Caveman said:
Are you really going to take the OP serious?
Click to expand...

No not really but I do like throwing out bait.
Devil_emoticon.gif
 
Fern

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Anarchist420 said:
Do the neocons really have a better argument about a strong military being a right than the left does about universal health care?

I don't think either side makes sense. They both require action on someone else's behalf, so therefore they're both collectivism. Collective policy gets abused, so having a military infringes upon the rights of the people just as much as having universal health care.

Could someone who disagrees with me explain why a military is any different from welfare? If you refuse to fund the military, then you get jailed. So it's not defense of society. In fact, it infringes upon the rights of society, since you get arrested if you choose not to fund it.
Click to expand...

Well, the Masters golf tournament is over so I've not much to do....

You're messing up the concept of 'Neocons'. They aren't really about a strong defense, that's so broad as to include too many non-Neocons. Neocons are about projecting power abroad for our own foreign policy objective. Those are two different things.

One of the main points of establishing a union of the colonies/states was to provide for the common defense - a military. Remember that England was still angry about the revolution and we had other countries with a foothold in the continental USA. So, a military to protect us is a specified job or responsibility of the USA gov..

Police? That's state/local and, for the most part, has nothing to do with the federal governement or Neocons etc.

Fern
 
C

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Fern said:
You're messing up the concept of 'Neocons'. They aren't really about a strong defense, that's so broad as to include too many non-Neocons. Neocons are about projecting power abroad for our own foreign policy objective. Those are two different things.

Fern
Click to expand...

I've long named a few 'think tanks' as centers of right-wing propaganda. One:

Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business.
- Michael Ledeen, holder of the Freedom Chair at the American Enterprise Institute
Click to expand...
 
manimal

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
8
0
lets call the warhawks by their real name. The military industrial complex. Or military welfare pimps.


Along Craigs's point I think some think tanks need to be changed to social engineering tanks..
 
manimal

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
8
0
wuliheron said:
No, its my brother-in-law.
Click to expand...

dude I have one of those too..



Hes a total redneck who listens to RUSH and spews the dogma at will. The sad truth of it is his wife has been on disability for 20 years and he just LOVES their checks every month...
 
wuliheron

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
manimal said:
dude I have one of those too..

Hes a total redneck who listens to RUSH and spews the dogma at will. The sad truth of it is his wife has been on disability for 20 years and he just LOVES their checks every month...
Click to expand...


Mine's now retired military and became wealthy with a medical malpractice lawsuit. Same difference. Bitch about anything and everyone and then take every opportunity to grab that cash with both hands and make a stash.
 
Matt1970

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Anarchist420 said:
Do the neocons really have a better argument about a strong military being a right than the left does about universal health care?

I don't think either side makes sense. They both require action on someone else's behalf, so therefore they're both collectivism. Collective policy gets abused, so having a military infringes upon the rights of the people just as much as having universal health care.

Could someone who disagrees with me explain why a military is any different from welfare? If you refuse to fund the military, then you get jailed. So it's not defense of society. In fact, it infringes upon the rights of society, since you get arrested if you choose not to fund it.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right. If you take away our Military and the Police, there won't be a need for Welfare or Healthcare. Just government sponsored burial plots.
 
Karl Agathon

Karl Agathon

Golden Member
Sep 30, 2010
1,081
0
0
Does my heart good knowing there is at least one SSBN within striking distance of Red China at all times (for defensive purposes of course)
 
C

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
manimal said:
lets call the warhawks by their real name. The military industrial complex. Or military welfare pimps.


Along Craigs's point I think some think tanks need to be changed to social engineering tanks..
Click to expand...

FWIW, the phrase is actually "military-industrial-congressional complex", but Eisenhower decided to drop the congressional because he felt it would be a political problem to say.

Any time a country gets too many people's livelihoods depending on anything bad - be it military spending or slavery or genocide or drug dealing or whatever - it's hard to reform.

Principles about the morality affecting other people fall far short of the compelling economic interest involved. Liberals generally take the high road on these things, alone.
 
Whoozyerdaddy

Whoozyerdaddy

Lifer
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
Anarchist420 said:
Do the neocons really have a better argument about a strong military being a right than the left does about universal health care?

I don't think either side makes sense. They both require action on someone else's behalf, so therefore they're both collectivism. Collective policy gets abused, so having a military infringes upon the rights of the people just as much as having universal health care.

Could someone who disagrees with me explain why a military is any different from welfare? If you refuse to fund the military, then you get jailed. So it's not defense of society. In fact, it infringes upon the rights of society, since you get arrested if you choose not to fund it.
Click to expand...

I don't know any conservative who thinks having a military is an individual right. A military is necessary to protect the country's interests and preserve its security but I've never heard of anyone being quoted as saying it's a right.

Raising and maintaining a military and navy is also spelled out as a congressional power in the Constitution. Universal Health Care is not.
 
ProfJohn

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Craig234 said:
Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business.
- Michael Ledeen, holder of the Freedom Chair at the American Enterprise Institute
Click to expand...
You lefties seem to love that quote.

When I google it I get a bunch of left wing blogs and other similar sources, but no one places it in context. Not that I am accusing the left of taking something out of context, they would never do such a thing, but I do wonder about the point Ledeen was making and how he could have been making it.
 
J

JimW1949

Senior member
Mar 22, 2011
244
0
0
Anarchist420 said:
If you refuse to fund the military, then you get jailed. So it's not defense of society. In fact, it infringes upon the rights of society, since you get arrested if you choose not to fund it.
Click to expand...
How do you choose not to fund the military? Individuals do not fund the military. The Federal Government funds the military. If you refuse to pay income taxes, you are refusing to pay the IRS. Refusing to pay income taxes, in and of itself, is not a refusal to fund the military, at least not directly. So where do you get the idea that you can refuse to fund the military?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom