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Why do people always say it's "Wrong" to break the law?

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Originally posted by: Tick
Ok, but even if laws were achieved by moral consensus, how would that make it wrong to break them?
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Perhaps I should have made it more clear in my post...I agree with you that laws and morality are separate issues. However, I disagree that morality is an individual decision. The serial killer may be a saint in his own mind, but he's still a demon in real life.

Originally posted by: Tick
I don't like philosophy because it attempt to make a science out of people thought, opinions, moral values, and ways of thinking. I don't like philosophy because it tries to reduce the most complicated thing in our lives, other people, down to simple terms and generalities and idea clusters. I don't like philosophy because it tries to make thinking, that glorious and wonderful and amazing thing, into something to be studied. I don't like philosophie because it takes away my individuality of mind and makes me a thought machine. I don't like philosophy because it makes me less me.
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Some people make exactly the same arguments against science.
 
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: Tick
Ok, but even if laws were achieved by moral consensus, how would that make it wrong to break them?
Click to expand...

Perhaps I should have made it more clear in my post...I agree with you that laws and morality are separate issues. However, I disagree that morality is an individual decision. The serial killer may be a saint in his own mind, but he's still a demon in real life.

Originally posted by: Tick
I don't like philosophy because it attempt to make a science out of people thought, opinions, moral values, and ways of thinking. I don't like philosophy because it tries to reduce the most complicated thing in our lives, other people, down to simple terms and generalities and idea clusters. I don't like philosophy because it tries to make thinking, that glorious and wonderful and amazing thing, into something to be studied. I don't like philosophie because it takes away my individuality of mind and makes me a thought machine. I don't like philosophy because it makes me less me.
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Some people make exactly the same arguments against science.
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Science describes the natural world, and the world outside my mind. Science is really the only true way to bring correct information into my mind. It's what happens after that that I don't want philosophy messing with.
 
Originally posted by: Tick
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: Tick
Ok, but even if laws were achieved by moral consensus, how would that make it wrong to break them?
Click to expand...

Perhaps I should have made it more clear in my post...I agree with you that laws and morality are separate issues. However, I disagree that morality is an individual decision. The serial killer may be a saint in his own mind, but he's still a demon in real life.

Originally posted by: Tick
I don't like philosophy because it attempt to make a science out of people thought, opinions, moral values, and ways of thinking. I don't like philosophy because it tries to reduce the most complicated thing in our lives, other people, down to simple terms and generalities and idea clusters. I don't like philosophy because it tries to make thinking, that glorious and wonderful and amazing thing, into something to be studied. I don't like philosophie because it takes away my individuality of mind and makes me a thought machine. I don't like philosophy because it makes me less me.
Click to expand...

Some people make exactly the same arguments against science.
Click to expand...

Science describes the natural world, and the world outside my mind. Science is really the only true way to bring correct information into my mind. It's what happens after that that I don't want philosophy messing with.
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In response to the other portion of your post, the fact that a serial killer can think he's right just adds to the argument that morality isn't universal. Sure, most people would say he is wrong, but just because their is a consense on something doesn't make the consensus right.

Edit: Fvck, wrong button. Posting while tipsy=bad. Also, I tried to type universal molarity instead of morality. Yes, we are all of the same concentration...
 
Originally posted by: Tick

Some people make exactly the same arguments against science.
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Science describes the natural world, and the world outside my mind. Science is really the only true way to bring correct information into my mind. It's what happens after that that I don't want philosophy messing with.[/quote]

Much like some people who don't mind science describing chemical reactions, gene expression, or material properties, as long as it stays the hell away from the origin of the universe or the descent of man?😉
 
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: Tick

Some people make exactly the same arguments against science.
Click to expand...

Science describes the natural world, and the world outside my mind. Science is really the only true way to bring correct information into my mind. It's what happens after that that I don't want philosophy messing with.
Click to expand...

Much like some people who don't mind science describing chemical reactions, gene expression, or material properties, as long as it stays the hell away from the origin of the universe or the descent of man?😉[/quote]

I consider their to be an important and fundemental barrier their. I think it is perfectly ok for science to describe anything that happens, and even how my brain works, or why I think what I do. I have no problem with psychology, and no problem with neuroscience, no matter how advanced. The fact of it is, all these things tell me what is. Other people are experts on these things. All these thing are best observed by many people, and concluded by carefull study. The difference is, each individual person is the expert on what they think. Each individual is the sole expert on themselves. Theirfore, philosophy is attempting to contradict the expert, and thus it will always be at least partially wrong. If, for instance, I had a telepathic parasite that knew everything about my mind, then it could study my thoughts, it could be a philosopher on me. But no one else is qualified for that position.
 
Originally posted by: Neurorelay
Ethics and morals, basically is what you are pointing out.

Ethics are what society deems correct; morals are your own personal viewpoints.

And yes, there is no such thing as right and wrong, just different points of view.
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wrong. that would imply that, because i don't like you, i am perfect morally justified in murdering you in any way i see fit. there are some things that are undeniably right or wrong. if you claim self defense, that is something different than me murdering you because i don't like you.
 
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: Neurorelay
Ethics and morals, basically is what you are pointing out.

Ethics are what society deems correct; morals are your own personal viewpoints.

And yes, there is no such thing as right and wrong, just different points of view.
Click to expand...

wrong. that would imply that, because i don't like you, i am perfect morally justified in murdering you in any way i see fit. there are some things that are undeniably right or wrong. if you claim self defense, that is something different than me murdering you because i don't like you.
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Wrong. If you think it is morally justified to kill someone because you don't like them, then that is right, for you. The law is their to protect him from people like you. That doesn't make killing him wrong, for you. It might be wrong to kill him, if someone else did it. And I'm sure it's wrong to the victim to be killed. But in all cases it is against the law. Not in every case is it wrong.
 
Laws, morality, and ethics are different and it's wrong to go against them for different reasons.

Leaving morality and ethics out of it, I think the simplest reason most people feel it is "wrong" to break the law is because of the consequences of doing so. It is the wrong choice to make as a rational person. What would be right about choosing to have to pay a fine or be incarcerated when you know that could be the result of your actions, especially when you have other options like working to get a law changed if you don't like it?
 
Originally posted by: Tick
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: Tick
Wrong and right are a personal thing that each person sets for themselves.
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I disagree...it is true that certain parts of morality are cultural and individual, but I believe there's also a universal morality.
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BULLSHIT!!!! Thier is no such bloody thing. Think about all the circumstances of justified killing. Killing, the most serious crime you can commit, is justified under certain exact circumstances. Yet, those circumstance vary from person to person and place to place. How, then, can morality be universal, when we can't even agree on when it's ok to kill someone?
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Unless I'm mistaken, having sexual relations with one's own sister is considered morally wrong in all cultures.
 
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Originally posted by: Tick
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: Tick
Wrong and right are a personal thing that each person sets for themselves.
Click to expand...

I disagree...it is true that certain parts of morality are cultural and individual, but I believe there's also a universal morality.
Click to expand...

BULLSHIT!!!! Thier is no such bloody thing. Think about all the circumstances of justified killing. Killing, the most serious crime you can commit, is justified under certain exact circumstances. Yet, those circumstance vary from person to person and place to place. How, then, can morality be universal, when we can't even agree on when it's ok to kill someone?
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Unless I'm mistaken, having sexual relations with one's own sister is considered morally wrong in all cultures.
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But is it considered morally wrong to all individual people?
 
Originally posted by: Tick
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: Neurorelay
Ethics and morals, basically is what you are pointing out.

Ethics are what society deems correct; morals are your own personal viewpoints.

And yes, there is no such thing as right and wrong, just different points of view.
Click to expand...

wrong. that would imply that, because i don't like you, i am perfect morally justified in murdering you in any way i see fit. there are some things that are undeniably right or wrong. if you claim self defense, that is something different than me murdering you because i don't like you.
Click to expand...

Wrong. If you think it is morally justified to kill someone because you don't like them, then that is right, for you. The law is their to protect him from people like you. That doesn't make killing him wrong, for you. It might be wrong to kill him, if someone else did it. And I'm sure it's wrong to the victim to be killed. But in all cases it is against the law. Not in every case is it wrong.
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This reminds me of a discussion I had with a friend shortly after 9/11. We were realizing how wrong we all felt those attacks were, and yet how right so much of the world thought it was. It was kind of a mind-fvck, to think that as passionately as we all felt (and still feel) that the terrorists did such a horrible thing on that day, many just as passionately felt it was a wonderful day, they probably hailed them as heroes.
 
Originally posted by: Tick
Originally posted by: Shadow Conception
Kinda like gay marriage. In some places, against the law, but not wrong.
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Nice example.
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Actually that's a horrible example. "Wrong" is a point of view. 50 years ago gay marriage was not even something that was thought of, and would probably be considered mortally "wrong." heck 200 years ago you'd probably be stoned to death.
 
Originally posted by: montanafan
Laws, morality, and ethics are different and it's wrong to go against them for different reasons.

Leaving morality and ethics out of it, I think the simplest reason most people feel it is "wrong" to break the law is because of the consequences of doing so. It is the wrong choice to make as a rational person. What would be right about choosing to have to pay a fine or be incarcerated when you know that could be the result of your actions, especially when you have other options like working to get a law changed if you don't like it?
Click to expand...

I think the above is correct.

Also, it may not be "wrong" in some absolute sense to break the law. But it is also not "wrong" for the state to lock you up for 100 years. So if you are willing to take that risk, and buck society, I guess it's not "wrong."
 
Originally posted by: LordSegan
Originally posted by: montanafan
Laws, morality, and ethics are different and it's wrong to go against them for different reasons.

Leaving morality and ethics out of it, I think the simplest reason most people feel it is "wrong" to break the law is because of the consequences of doing so. It is the wrong choice to make as a rational person. What would be right about choosing to have to pay a fine or be incarcerated when you know that could be the result of your actions, especially when you have other options like working to get a law changed if you don't like it?
Click to expand...

I think the above is correct.

Also, it may not be "wrong" in some absolute sense to break the law. But it is also not "wrong" for the state to lock you up for 100 years. So if you are willing to take that risk, and buck society, I guess it's not "wrong."
Click to expand...

spoken like a future lawyer
 
society needs the citizens to trust the laws, in order for society to function.
the law ought to be preserved, so that everything is stable.
 
laws are fine and all but i have 10 "laws" that i follow and its all i really need and then man's law for simple guidance through life like crossing the street when the light is green for me and stuff so i wont get flattened...:/
 
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