Why do Mac users refer to Bootcamp as another operating system?

[slugg]

Makes no sense...

Games do not run in Bootcamp; they run in Windows. Bootcamp doesn't run Windows either, it LETS you run Windows on your Apple hardware. The computer natively runs Windows.... or Mac OS X, for that matter. Bootcamp just lets you pick between the two.

</rant>

 

[Kmax82]

Well, for me, personally, it's an easy way to distinguish that you are running Windows on your Mac without virtualization, and not a native PC. Yes, natively a Mac can run both OS X and Windows, but this gives greater clarification. Especially since you can run Windows through Fusion, Parallels, VirtualPC, Bootcamp, etc... and so there has to be a way to distinguish between which way you choose your side of Windows, y'know?

I understand what you're saying, but that's my personal take on it.

 

[Nothinman]

It's a fairly pointless distinction because usually when talking about running something in Windows in Parallels people say specifically that.

 

[aphex]

Slugg: As the other poster noted above, Since there are two different ways to run windows on a mac, many posters distinguish between the different methods when posting about how well something works. Rather than saying, "this game works GREAT in bootcamp windows and not so good in parallels windows", as with all internet/computer phrases people shorten it to "this game works GREAT in bootcamp"

When they say something works great in bootcamp, it automatically implies windows, they are just trying to show which variant they are using to actually use windows.

Nothingman: This leads me into your post, which I disagree with partially. On this forum and many other forums (as well as in real life), I hear many people simply refer to Windows in Parallels just as Parallels. The difference however is that FWIW, it appears that most people run Bootcamp ONLY for Windows, while I know quite a few who use Parallels for more than simply Windows alone (such a Linux variant) - so making a distinction for those people makes sense.

Anyway, just my $0.02

 

[Nothinman]

When they say something works great in bootcamp, it automatically implies windows,

But it really doesn't, I can use Bootcamp to dualboot other OSes as well. Sure Windows is the common case but it's not the only one.

But I also work with some pretty pedantic people so my statistical sample may be tainted. =)

 

[Kmax82]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

When they say something works great in bootcamp, it automatically implies windows,

But it really doesn't, I can use Bootcamp to dualboot other OSes as well. Sure Windows is the common case but it's not the only one.

But I also work with some pretty pedantic people so my statistical sample may be tainted. =)

That's a limited user group I would think. Out of the 20, or so, people that I personally know that use Macs, none of them run any other OS than OS X/Windows. But then again, my sample might not be the norm also.. :shrug:

 

[slugg]

yea i didnt want to seem like im bashing macs... on the contrary - i wish i had one. I just don't have the money.

But yea... On PC, you don't say "Wow, X program runs GREAT on GRUB!". You see, GRUB is a bootloader... it lets you pick between two (or more) operating systems. Bootcamp is essentially a glorified bootloader. One would say "This runs great in Linux" which of course is accessible through GRUB. You're running Linux, not GRUB.

So when I say "Mathematica runs great on Linux," how does one know that I'm referring to Linux running natively (dual boot) as opposed to a virtualization? Well that's because I said it's running on LINUX. If I wanted to say something runs well in a virtualization, I'd say "Microsoft Office runs great in Wine." See the difference? In this case, I describe the application (MS Office) as operating within the virtualization (Wine). Specifically, MS Office would actually be running ON LINUX but within my virtualization program (Wine).

So back to the mac world...

You don't run programs/games in Bootcamp. Sorry, Bootcamp does not run ANYTHING. All it lets you do is pick between Windows and Mac OS X. Now, if you used bootcamp to get into Windows and are now running a game, you are now running a game in Windows. You are not running it in Bootcamp (remember: bootcamp does not run anything! it just lets you select what operating system to boot into). If you choose to boot into Mac OS X and then run your game/application through Parallels, VMWare, or any equivalent virtualization software, you're running it in Mac OS X through Parallels/VMWare. Since you're a Mac user, it'd be implied that your host operating system is Mac OS. Examples:

"Halo 2 runs fine in Windows." <--- implied that Windows is running natively.
"StarCraft runs fine through Parallels." <--- implied that OS X is your host OS.
Alternatively, "StarCraft runs fine on Mac through Parallels."

^^ I tried to be as descriptive as possible... now do you guys understand my point? not trying to start a flame war here... it just bothers me (pet peave?).

 

[KeithP]

Intel Macs use EFI and not a BIOS. Bootcamp, in addition to being a bootloader, also emulates a BIOS. That may just be a "glorified bootloader" to you but I would say it is not that much of a stretch to say something is running "under bootcamp". Maybe running "on top of" bootcamp would be more accurate.

I am guessing everyone pretty much understands your point, it is just that in the end, it doesn't really matter. As others have pointed out, it came into the Macintosh vernacular to distinguish between how someone was running Windows XP/VIsta/whatever, virtualized or not, on Apple hardware.

-KeithP

 

[slugg]

gotcha.

 

[Nothinman]

Intel Macs use EFI and not a BIOS. Bootcamp, in addition to being a bootloader, also emulates a BIOS. That may just be a "glorified bootloader" to you but I would say it is not that much of a stretch to say something is running "under bootcamp". Maybe running "on top of" bootcamp would be more accurate.

Technically Bootcamp is more than just a bootloader because it comes with the EFI module to emulate a legacy BIOS and drivers for Windows, but saying something is runing "on top of bootcamp" is just as bad as saying that something "runs on top of my BIOS". Both can be argued as being correct to come degree but don't really mean anything.

 

[bearxor]

Yeah, it's definitely used to distinguish between various ways of running Windows. When someone at work asks me if a program works on a Mac, I say that it runs fine with Parallels, or that you have to run it under bootcamp. The vast majority of people do not install a Linux distro using bootcamp. Simply saying Fusion/Parallels/Crossover/Bootcamp is a great simple way of specifying what you're using.

This whole topic is stupid though.

 

[slugg]

but see something i dont understand...

"Does <program> run on Mac?"
"Yes, under Bootcamp."

^^ well then you're not running it on Mac, are you? You just happen to be on Apple hardware, but if you're running Windows, you're on "any old PC." Alternatively,

"Does <program> run on Mac?"
"Yes, using Parallels."

^^ then you _ARE_ running it on Mac...


Another thing I don't understand is why Apple users expect anything _other_ than their Windows software working in Windows. Example:

"Does Halo 2 work in Parallels?"
"No, but it works great in Bootcamp! Macs rule!"

^^ What did you expect? OF COURSE it runs in Windows. This is nothing special. Now I don't know if Halo 2 actually works in Parallels or not, but it's just an example. So in this case, Halo 2 would NOT work on Mac. Due to the fact that you have to be running Windows to run Halo 2, it's not running on Mac; it's running on a normal PC with Windows. Yes it's Apple hardware, but _NOW_ with Intel in the mix, the only major difference between traditional PC's (factory shipped with Windows) and Apples is the operating system. You could get into little differences like EFI versus BIOS, but that's such a minute thing that it doesn't really matter. So if you switch the operating system to Windows, aren't you NOT running "Mac OS" anymore?

Personally, I'd rather stay on Mac OS. Why else would you buy Apple hardware other than to run OS X, ya know? Granted, I do understand that Bootcamp gives you the opportunity to run Windows as an alternative when needed, so this isn't really an argument, just a remark. If I had a bunch of Windows software that I needed to run, I wouldn't use a Mac for that purpose. Sounds to me like there are a lot of PC users that caved in to Apple's marketing. Again, I'm not bashing Apple here (I'm on you guys' side here; I _want_ a Mac badly. Money sucks ).

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: slugg
but see something i dont understand...

"Does <program> run on Mac?"
"Yes, under Bootcamp."

^^ well then you're not running it on Mac, are you? You just happen to be on Apple hardware, but if you're running Windows, you're on "any old PC." Alternatively,

"Does <program> run on Mac?"
"Yes, using Parallels."

^^ then you _ARE_ running it on Mac...


Another thing I don't understand is why Apple users expect anything _other_ than their Windows software working in Windows. Example:

"Does Halo 2 work in Parallels?"
"No, but it works great in Bootcamp! Macs rule!"

^^ What did you expect? OF COURSE it runs in Windows. This is nothing special. Now I don't know if Halo 2 actually works in Parallels or not, but it's just an example. So in this case, Halo 2 would NOT work on Mac. Due to the fact that you have to be running Windows to run Halo 2, it's not running on Mac; it's running on a normal PC with Windows. Yes it's Apple hardware, but _NOW_ with Intel in the mix, the only major difference between traditional PC's (factory shipped with Windows) and Apples is the operating system. You could get into little differences like EFI versus BIOS, but that's such a minute thing that it doesn't really matter. So if you switch the operating system to Windows, aren't you NOT running "Mac OS" anymore?

Personally, I'd rather stay on Mac OS. Why else would you buy Apple hardware other than to run OS X, ya know? Granted, I do understand that Bootcamp gives you the opportunity to run Windows as an alternative when needed, so this isn't really an argument, just a remark. If I had a bunch of Windows software that I needed to run, I wouldn't use a Mac for that purpose. Sounds to me like there are a lot of PC users that caved in to Apple's marketing. Again, I'm not bashing Apple here (I'm on you guys' side here; I _want_ a Mac badly. Money sucks ).

um.

yeah...

 

[ubercaffeinated]

dood you are being way too picky over nothing. just go with the flow man.

 

[slugg]

im not trying to convince you guys of anything, im just pointing stuff out

 

[Nothinman]

^^ well then you're not running it on Mac, are you? You just happen to be on Apple hardware, but if you're running Windows, you're on "any old PC." Alternatively,

No, they are running it on a Mac. Just because that Mac happens to be running Windows instead of OS X at the time doesn't mean it's not a Mac anymore.

So if you switch the operating system to Windows, aren't you NOT running "Mac OS" anymore?

Of course not, but the OS doesn't determine the brand or model of the PC which is still a Mac.

Personally, I'd rather stay on Mac OS. Why else would you buy Apple hardware other than to run OS X, ya know?

Because you like the hardware but not the OS? I've been contemplating buying a MacBook to run Linux for a while now.

 

[randomlinh]

heh, the topic of this thread has always bothered me as well... bootcamp lets you run whatever.. but windows is just the target for it, so I've let it slide. It's far easier just to name the method in which I'm running windows.