Why do high end car companies nickel and dime you over everything?

[GoingUp]

For example, I was pricing out a BMW 650i coupe...

$500 for heated seats?
$2000 for the upgraded stereo?

Why is there so much little stuff on high end cars that isn't part of the standard package? And how does the damn XM Radio cost $600 on a BMW where its $150 on any GM car?

 

[Summitdrinker]

because somepeople are trying to be big stuff buying there junk

 

[sniperruff]

because they can maximize their revenue that way. they are a business, afterall.

 

[Idontcare]

Well for one thing they don't have massive production volume behind the auto parts to create low-pricing per part type financials.

No volume manufacturing to leverage into a reduced cost of overhead, etc.

You know it is something reasonable like this, versus say something easy to envision but entirely fictitious such as 3000% mark-ups because these companies do not have 95% PFO (profit on operations) when they report their quarterly results.

Sorry if there was no conspiracy here or some unknown rich person to hate and loath for creating this situation. Want to purchase low-volume items, pay the low-volume overhead. These aren't being designed and engineered 100% in China and you aren't buying them from Walmart sales associates who are happy taking home $30k/year.

 

[Black88GTA]

Why do high end car companies nickel and dime you over everything?

Because they can, and they know the types of people that are in the market for these cars aren't going to let a few thousand $$$ stop them from optioning out the car the way they want it?

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
For example, I was pricing out a BMW 650i coupe...

$500 for heated seats?
$2000 for the upgraded stereo?

Why is there so much little stuff on high end cars that isn't part of the standard package? And how does the damn XM Radio cost $600 on a BMW where its $150 on any GM car?

Some of us live in climates where heated seats are unnecessary ... so you want us to pay for them anyway?

Some of us don't care about the audio system in a car. That is provided by the engine.

 

[MetalMat]

You can always put after market stuff in, I guarantee that for 1,000$ you could have a way better stereo system put in.

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: MetalMat
You can always put after market stuff in, I guarantee that for 1,000$ you could have a way better stereo system put in.

Better sound, poorer integration. That's normally the tradeoff these days.

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
For example, I was pricing out a BMW 650i coupe...

$500 for heated seats?
$2000 for the upgraded stereo?

Why is there so much little stuff on high end cars that isn't part of the standard package? And how does the damn XM Radio cost $600 on a BMW where its $150 on any GM car?

all of which came standard on my previous-gen honda accord (which supports your point).

i was looking at the Volvo C30 the other day for fun. $23K is a good price, right? Well, option it out to match my Accord, and suddenly that glorified Ford Focus is pushing 40 thousand fvcking dollars, and it's inferior in every way except that it has a good-looking rear end. the best part is that you have to pay an option fee to even ALLOW certain options to be included AS options. WTF?

 

[exdeath]

Same reason Intel can charge $1200 for a "Extreme Edition" CPU or how they can charge $5000 for the SAME EXACT CPU just because it says 'server' or 'enterprise' on the box... even to the point of being scandalous and changing the socket slightly so you can't stick in the cheaper chip if you know better...

Or how nVidia can charge almost 1000% more for a "Ultra" 8800 card that is 0.001% better than the non Ultra, etc...

Same reason a 1 TB hard drive costs 10x more than two 500 GB hard drives...

Same reason memory for a Dell or Alienware on the options page is 5x more expensive than buying the same memory on say, newegg...

Same reason two cars with the exact same engine, one being a GT and the other being a better GTS with 10 more HP enabled via a flag in a flash file can justify a $5,000 difference for the 'higher performance' model...

Same reason a 29" LCD costs $500 but a 29.1" LCD costs $5000 for 1 more square inch of glass with the same bezel and electronics (well not anymore, but exaggerating here, you know what I mean...)

Need I go on? Basically you are paying for the label that says 'look at me I have more money than you', so someone is willing to take that money for just that purpose.

Porsche is the absolute worst offender when it comes to cars... There are 1000s of stupid trivial options from colored wheel inserts to painted brake calipers to colored seat crest stitching and cup holders... $1000+ for floor mats anyone?

 

[imported_Truenofan]

exdeath, nobody could have put it better than you.

 

[natto fire]

Looks like you hopefully got your answers here.

I think it can best be surmised in one word: Capitalism.

While it certainly has it's flaws, it seems to be working out for lots of people at the moment...

 

[Tremulant]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
For example, I was pricing out a BMW 650i coupe...

$500 for heated seats?
$2000 for the upgraded stereo?

Why is there so much little stuff on high end cars that isn't part of the standard package? And how does the damn XM Radio cost $600 on a BMW where its $150 on any GM car?

all of which came standard on my previous-gen honda accord (which supports your point).

i was looking at the Volvo C30 the other day for fun. $23K is a good price, right? Well, option it out to match my Accord, and suddenly that glorified Ford Focus is pushing 40 thousand fvcking dollars, and it's inferior in every way except that it has a good-looking rear end. the best part is that you have to pay an option fee to even ALLOW certain options to be included AS options. WTF?

I was checking out the C30 also the other day. When I saw that keyless entry was a $100 option, I closed the browser.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
For example, I was pricing out a BMW 650i coupe...

$500 for heated seats?
$2000 for the upgraded stereo?

Why is there so much little stuff on high end cars that isn't part of the standard package? And how does the damn XM Radio cost $600 on a BMW where its $150 on any GM car?

The stereo in my wife's Lexus is far better than the one that came stock in my Maxima...or pretty much any GM car.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: exdeath
Porsche is the absolute worst offender when it comes to cars... There are 1000s of stupid trivial options from colored wheel inserts to painted brake calipers to colored seat crest stitching and cup holders... $1000+ for floor mats anyone?

Yes, how dare they offer one-off, hand-finished options for the people who are willing to pay for them. It would be a much, much better business model for Porsche to tell these people to go pound sand and lose a customer. :roll:

Historically Porsche's position has been (and still is) that they will provide the buyer with essentially anything that the buyer desires as long as the buyer is willing to pay for it. The option list is long because buyers have demanded (and paid for) many different things. The prices are high because with that many options, everything becomes a one-off piece without economies of scale.

Sure, if Porsche had an options list as limited as the options list of, say, the current Mustang, they could drop the price of their options significantly. But they wouldn't be able to customize their cars for each customer that way.

ZV

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: exdeath
Porsche is the absolute worst offender when it comes to cars... There are 1000s of stupid trivial options from colored wheel inserts to painted brake calipers to colored seat crest stitching and cup holders... $1000+ for floor mats anyone?

Yes, how dare they offer one-off, hand-finished options for the people who are willing to pay for them. It would be a much, much better business model for Porsche to tell these people to go pound sand and lose a customer. :roll:

Historically Porsche's position has been (and still is) that they will provide the buyer with essentially anything that the buyer desires as long as the buyer is willing to pay for it. The option list is long because buyers have demanded (and paid for) many different things. The prices are high because with that many options, everything becomes a one-off piece without economies of scale.

Sure, if Porsche had an options list as limited as the options list of, say, the current Mustang, they could drop the price of their options significantly. But they wouldn't be able to customize their cars for each customer that way.

ZV

Ferrari does the same thing BTW and is much more expensive but then it's pretty much a hand built car.

 

[overst33r]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: exdeath
Porsche is the absolute worst offender when it comes to cars... There are 1000s of stupid trivial options from colored wheel inserts to painted brake calipers to colored seat crest stitching and cup holders... $1000+ for floor mats anyone?

Yes, how dare they offer one-off, hand-finished options for the people who are willing to pay for them. It would be a much, much better business model for Porsche to tell these people to go pound sand and lose a customer. :roll:

Historically Porsche's position has been (and still is) that they will provide the buyer with essentially anything that the buyer desires as long as the buyer is willing to pay for it. The option list is long because buyers have demanded (and paid for) many different things. The prices are high because with that many options, everything becomes a one-off piece without economies of scale.

Sure, if Porsche had an options list as limited as the options list of, say, the current Mustang, they could drop the price of their options significantly. But they wouldn't be able to customize their cars for each customer that way.

ZV

Ferrari does the same thing BTW and is much more expensive but then it's pretty much a hand built car.

Buying a Ferrari = Donation to F1 team

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: exdeath
Porsche is the absolute worst offender when it comes to cars... There are 1000s of stupid trivial options from colored wheel inserts to painted brake calipers to colored seat crest stitching and cup holders... $1000+ for floor mats anyone?

Yes, how dare they offer one-off, hand-finished options for the people who are willing to pay for them. It would be a much, much better business model for Porsche to tell these people to go pound sand and lose a customer. :roll:

Historically Porsche's position has been (and still is) that they will provide the buyer with essentially anything that the buyer desires as long as the buyer is willing to pay for it. The option list is long because buyers have demanded (and paid for) many different things. The prices are high because with that many options, everything becomes a one-off piece without economies of scale.

Sure, if Porsche had an options list as limited as the options list of, say, the current Mustang, they could drop the price of their options significantly. But they wouldn't be able to customize their cars for each customer that way.

ZV

My point was many of the more trivial options you would expect to be standard attention to detail on a $60,000+ car... instead they nickel and dime you $1000 on things like cup holders and floor mats... (exaggerating, but not far from the truth).

I'm not faulting or blaming Porsche or the customers or even saying it's right or wrong, but simply in my opinion it's a lame practice; about as lame as the other things I listed above (ie: Extreme Edition trends). Should the tires be an extra option as well? Maybe you should have to tow it home on blocks on a flat bed if you don't opt for the optional $3,000 Porsche tires.

On my Cobra, the only options were major aesthetic preferences: coupe vs. convertible, chrome or machine finish wheels, and spoiler delete. That was absolutely it for the options list. Everything else was *standard*, including the little touches like embroidered seats and wheel hub inserts, things that Porsche nickel and dimes you for, on a car that already costs $60,000 or more bare. People pay $500 for 'colored valve stem caps' because they have more money than brains, it's a simple as that.

I think it's quite funny actually, people pony up the dough to think they have a custom car, while Porsche is laughing all the way to the bank

It's the same in the housing industry. The profit isn't in the house itself, it's the 900000% markups on the options where they make their money when it's all added up.

 

[Arkaign]

Acura doesn't nickel and dime you, but they don't have anything that competes at the market segment of the 650i. But comparing a TL w/NAV to a 330i shows you how different their approaches to 'options' are.

 

[AdamK47]

It's made by Acura therefore it is _____. It's made by Lexus therefore it is _____. It's made by BMW therefore it is _____. Feel free to fill in the blanks with whatever you've been told to believe.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: exdeath
Porsche is the absolute worst offender when it comes to cars... There are 1000s of stupid trivial options from colored wheel inserts to painted brake calipers to colored seat crest stitching and cup holders... $1000+ for floor mats anyone?

Yes, how dare they offer one-off, hand-finished options for the people who are willing to pay for them. It would be a much, much better business model for Porsche to tell these people to go pound sand and lose a customer. :roll:

Historically Porsche's position has been (and still is) that they will provide the buyer with essentially anything that the buyer desires as long as the buyer is willing to pay for it. The option list is long because buyers have demanded (and paid for) many different things. The prices are high because with that many options, everything becomes a one-off piece without economies of scale.

Sure, if Porsche had an options list as limited as the options list of, say, the current Mustang, they could drop the price of their options significantly. But they wouldn't be able to customize their cars for each customer that way.

ZV

The owner of my previous company actually had a custom color made for his Carerra. He took in a paint chip sample and they matched it. The price of that option escapes me. He almost doubled the price of the car after all of the custom stuff he had done to it.

 

[ponyo]

exdeath is right about Porsche being one of the worst offender of this. At price Porsche charges for their car, lot of the options should be standard on a base car. Instead they make you pay for it. I think on my Boxster, options added more than 30% to the base price. But I was happy because I customized the way I wanted it.

GM is on the other end. They like to bundle option packages together and make you buy useless or unwanted options just to get a feature or two you want. I wanted HUD on my Corvette. But to get that I would've had to pay $5k for the otherwise useless 3LT option package. I wasn't going to pay $5k extra for only one feature I wanted so I passed. If they just offered HUD by itself like Porsche would have, I would've paid extra for that option. Of course if Porsche was selling the Corvette, they would charge $100k for it. I should be happy GM is providing such a great performance car at an affordable price.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Naustica
exdeath is right about Porsche being one of the worst offender of this. At price Porsche charges for their car, lot of the options should be standard on a base car. Instead they make you pay for it. I think on my Boxster, options added more than 30% to the base price. But I was happy because I customized the way I wanted it.

GM is on the other end. They like to bundle option packages together and make you buy useless or unwanted options just to get a feature or two you want. I wanted HUD on my Corvette. But to get that I would've had to pay $5k for the otherwise useless LT3 option package. I wasn't going to pay $5k extra for only one feature I wanted so I passed. If they just offered HUD by itself like Porsche would have, I would've paid extra for that option. Of course if Porsche was selling the Corvette, they would charge $100k for it. I should be happy GM is providing such a great performance car at an affordable price.

Yeah, it was the Boxster I was looking into for the longest time. Nice car, especially the S, but I got bit by the raw horsepower bug before I ever saved up enough for the Porsche. Even Gemballa and Ruf performance upgrades weren't enough, and left the little roadster with far less power than many other cars that cost much less, and far less than it deserves. But I got something I am, in hindsight, much better off with for my needs and wants.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: exdeath
Porsche is the absolute worst offender when it comes to cars... There are 1000s of stupid trivial options from colored wheel inserts to painted brake calipers to colored seat crest stitching and cup holders... $1000+ for floor mats anyone?

Yes, how dare they offer one-off, hand-finished options for the people who are willing to pay for them. It would be a much, much better business model for Porsche to tell these people to go pound sand and lose a customer. :roll:

Historically Porsche's position has been (and still is) that they will provide the buyer with essentially anything that the buyer desires as long as the buyer is willing to pay for it. The option list is long because buyers have demanded (and paid for) many different things. The prices are high because with that many options, everything becomes a one-off piece without economies of scale.

Sure, if Porsche had an options list as limited as the options list of, say, the current Mustang, they could drop the price of their options significantly. But they wouldn't be able to customize their cars for each customer that way.

ZV

My point was many of the more trivial options you would expect to be standard attention to detail on a $60,000+ car... instead they nickel and dime you $1000 on things like cup holders and floor mats... (exaggerating, but not far from the truth).

I'm not faulting or blaming Porsche or the customers or even saying it's right or wrong, but simply in my opinion it's a lame practice; about as lame as the other things I listed above (ie: Extreme Edition trends). Should the tires be an extra option as well? Maybe you should have to tow it home on blocks on a flat bed if you don't opt for the optional $3,000 Porsche tires.

On my Cobra, the only options were major aesthetic preferences: coupe vs. convertible, chrome or machine finish wheels, and spoiler delete. That was absolutely it for the options list. Everything else was *standard*, including the little touches like embroidered seats and wheel hub inserts, things that Porsche nickel and dimes you for, on a car that already costs $60,000 or more bare. People pay $500 for 'colored valve stem caps' because they have more money than brains, it's a simple as that.

I think it's quite funny actually, people pony up the dough to think they have a custom car, while Porsche is laughing all the way to the bank

It's the same in the housing industry. The profit isn't in the house itself, it's the 900000% markups on the options where they make their money when it's all added up.

If you don't want the options, don't buy them. By charging more for individual options they allow the base car to be less expensive. And before you or anyone else starts going on and on about how the base cars are overpriced, factor in the vastly lower production runs. Porsche sells fewer than 35,000 cars in the US each YEAR. That includes all models. Ford sells four times that number of Mustangs alone each year. And over 200,000 vehicles each month over all its brands. When you can re-use the same climate controls and radios over 2.4 million vehicles, the per-unit cost is going to be just a little bit less than when you're building one-off parts for fewer than 35,000 vehicles. The same for power seat computers, etc. When you're building 2.4 million cars each year, you can also negotiate much better prices from your suppliers.

It's just the basic elements of doing business.

ZV

 

[exdeath]

You're absolutely kidding yourself if you think there isn't more markup and premium just because it says Porsche (or BMW or Lexus or Mercedes, etc) regardless of production numbers.

After all those companies use special aluminum and stuff that isn't part of the periodic table of our Earth. :roll:

What does a Porsche clutch or timing belt cost again and what is so different about it than any other?

What you are saying regarding economies of scale is only part of the picture. The other part is the same that we see all the time in the electronics industry: big margins for marginally better products or perceived superiority based on brand prestige.

Hate to break it to you but there is no production cost difference between a 8800 GTX and a 8800 Ultra and the same goes for your $500+ OEM clutch sets and timing belts. It's just fluffed margins.