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why do democrats keep insisting McCain wants the war in iraq to go on for 100 years?

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nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Where is the video of the actual remarks?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-VRAshmSdps

jump to 4:15-ish if you just want the soundbite and not the context.

WARNING: you're about to watch a politician actually engage in a discussion with the opposition. it might be a little scary, it's about as rare a sight as you'll find.
Thank you, now I want to see this:

? "He says that he is willing to send our troops into another 100 years of war in Iraq" (Barack Obama, Feb. 19).
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02...bama.html?pagewanted=6
 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
15
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Originally posted by: sportage
Maybe cause HE SAID SO!

"Even if it take a 100 years to get the job done"

It was during one of the debates. i watched it. I heard it.
How long did we stay in Germany and Japan?

?


hmmm

turn brain on before you get all discombobulated.
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
12,304
3,670
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comparing japan and germany to iraq is like comparing bread and butter to onions.

japan and germany had a cohesive national identity intact at the end of WWII that made things so much easier for them to pick themselves up with and prosper.

iraq otoh, had a sectarian problem brewing and suppressed under a system of rule that only a ruthless brutal and treacherous guy like saddam could operate successfully. there is also a strong religious belief system that is held higher than any government they could patch together with spit and gum after the guy holding that whole house of cards together got taken out.

these factors were completely brushed aside by the bush/cheney team as minor issues when the prioirty was taking advantage of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that 9/11 created for the neocons. it glazed their eyes over and made them blind to the reality of what they were about to execute with wanton haste and arrogant ignorance.

given those glaring differences between germany/japan and iraq, how is it that a foreign power can take over by force a fully functioning nation, however brutally controlled it was, and create utter chaos out of it through sheer opportunistic arrogance and incompetence?

this is the legacy that mccain wants to perpetuate ad infinitum. he's saying through the simple use of bullying with bullets he can force the suppression of ethnic and sectarian differences between three distinct and heavily religious sects that have history and traditions going back eons and eons without any use of the tactics that saddam used so effectively? how ignorant and/or arrogant is that?

throw in al qaeda who weren't a factor in iraq before 'ol georgie and cheney decided to pull the trigger and we're supposed to believe that the same kind of thinking that got us into this freak'in nightmare is the same kind of thinking that's going to get us out of it?

get real please.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
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Its somewhat hard to disagree with tweaker2 when he says---this is the legacy that mccain wants to perpetuate ad infinitum. he's saying through the simple use of bullying with bullets he can force the suppression of ethnic and sectarian differences between three distinct and heavily religious sects that have history and traditions going back eons and eons without any use of the tactics that saddam used so effectively?

But sadly, IMHO, its not as simple as that. Because we have to also look at the alternative which might be summed up as withdraw from Iraq immediately and totally. And that could trigger a greater disaster in the form of a Iraqi civil war that soon spreads into the larger mid-east, which could then probably then result in the blockading of the Persian gulf
which in turn would lead to an almost certain world wide economic depression.

And our position is almost like the man who fell off the top of a 100 story building. And in the act of falling, passes the 50'th floor and remarks to himself, so far so good. Of course we all know he is going to go splat on the sidewalk in less time than it took him to fall the first 50 floors, and a positive attitude is nice to have when all available alternatives lead to ruin. And in this little parable, we the American people are the falling man, and the falling man did not just fall, he was pushed off the roof by none other than GWB&co. And now our only hope is some sort of soft landing safety net instead of just a concrete sidewalk. And that safety net can only be in the form of diplomacy.

So even if the McCain plan seems stupid, we must still compare it to the Hillary or Obama plan. And in the election of 2008, we must choose and choose wisely on which person we think is best equipped to set up that soft landing. Because diplomacy is always unknowable. Sadly the McCain plan for that soft landing can lead to ruin if we bleed to death before hitting the sidewalk.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
67,499
4,169
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Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Where is the video of the actual remarks?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-VRAshmSdps

jump to 4:15-ish if you just want the soundbite and not the context.

WARNING: you're about to watch a politician actually engage in a discussion with the opposition. it might be a little scary, it's about as rare a sight as you'll find.
Thank you, now I want to see this:

? "He says that he is willing to send our troops into another 100 years of war in Iraq" (Barack Obama, Feb. 19).
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02...bama.html?pagewanted=6
Thank you:

He is a genuine American hero. But when he embraces George Bush's failed economic policies, when he says that he is willing to send our troops into another 100 years of war in Iraq, then he represents the policies of yesterday. And we want to be the party of tomorrow. And I'm looking forward to having that debate with John McCain.

Ah, so if you will read, you will see that what Obama said can be parsed just as Krauthammer parsed what was said by McCain. He didn't say that McCain wanted 100 years of war in Iraq but that a willingness to keep troops for a 100 years in Iraq where there is war right now represents the policies of yesterday, that he wants a different tomorrow, and that he looks forward to a debate, one in which McCain will surely be able to present the facts as he meant them, no? What are we doing with our military all over the world. Why are we not fighting the real war in the world by being an example of our spiritual ideals. We talk about justice but we step on people with our guns. We trust neither hope nor have we any real faith in our own ideals. They are only polish and lies. Obama wants to change that. He brings hope to the world. You who are dead to your souls have no idea.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Administrator
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Once they have heard Obama's pastor refer to the US of KKK a few dozen times most people won't care what McCain said about Iraq.
The ones who keep pushing those images everywhere are racist bigots and neocon bullshit pimps. Clearly, McCain represents only more of the same lies and bullshit we've been sufferering for the last seven years.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
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Other than lefty bloggers, who has said that JM 'wants' 100 years in Iraq?

Is Krauthammer bitching about bloggers, or did the DNC really say, as Krauthammer claims they did, that JM 'wants' a 100 year war?


 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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Granted the McCain statement was taken somewhat out of context. It will still go over the heads of most voters just like the Kerry statement of I voted for it before I voted against it. All the American people will hear is that McCain wants to stay in Iraq for a 100 years. And McCain will be buried under a landslide of democratic votes. Especially if the recent fighting in Basra keeps spreading.

McCain still has not figured out why we lost in Vietnam. When its clear that non military solutions MCCain seems clueless on implementing is whats needed.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
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Originally posted by: Gaard
Other than lefty bloggers, who has said that JM 'wants' 100 years in Iraq?

Is Krauthammer bitching about bloggers, or did the DNC really say, as Krauthammer claims they did, that JM 'wants' a 100 year war?
er, rtfa for quotes from Obama, Clinton, and the DNC chair Howard dean?
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Administrator
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
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Originally posted by: Gaard
Other than lefty bloggers, who has said that JM 'wants' 100 years in Iraq?

Is Krauthammer bitching about bloggers, or did the DNC really say, as Krauthammer claims they did, that JM 'wants' a 100 year war?
Umm... Could it be umm... John McCain?

Question from audience: President Bush has talked about our staying in Iraq for 50 years.

McCain: Maybe a hundred. We've been in South Korea... We've been in Japan for sixty years. We've been in South Korea for fifty years or so. That would be fine with me, as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed.
Those are McCain's words, which gets back to the point of my first reply in this thread. If McCain thinks there won't be bloodshed in Iraq for a long time to come, he's having a few too many senior flashbacks to his time with the Blackwater security boys in those Baghdad marketplace photo-ops. And if he thinks Americans won't be "injured or harmed or wounded or killed" as long as we've got troops in the middle of such chaos, he's simply not of this planet.

In this extended interview with Tim Russert on "Meet The Press," McCain expands on his views, proving he has only an addle brained, tenuous grasp on reality and pimping the same neocon bullshit rationalizations for a war that is as wrong, today, as it was on day one and the same bullshit excuses for the Bushwhackos' failures.
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
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McCain knows Iraq is safe now. You can easily stroll through market on a sunday morning with a regiment of marines.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
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Did I want to give away my dog? No. But I was willing to do it for the sake of my son.

I suggest that painting my house will probably take a couple of weeks. Do I want it to take that long? Hell no. I wish I could do it in a day.

My point - did the DNC actually say that McCain said he "wants" the Iraq war to go on for 100 years? Or did Krauthammer simply say they (DNC) did so he could rip at them?

Loki - you agree with Krauthammer, so you must know if they did or not. Show me. And don't tell me to rtfa. I already did and Krauthammer has failed to show me where anyone has said JM "wants" the war to last 100 years. Did they say that JM said he's willing to keep the war going for 100 years? Yes. But show me where they accuse him of saying he "wants" it.

My question, Harvey, isn't whether McCain wants it or not. My question is whether the DNC accused him of saying that he wants it. See the difference? I honestly don't know. But I do know that Krauthammer hasn't shown me where they have.

 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
5
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Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Once they have heard Obama's pastor refer to the US of KKK a few dozen times most people won't care what McCain said about Iraq.
The ones who keep pushing those images everywhere are racist bigots and neocon bullshit pimps. Clearly, McCain represents only more of the same lies and bullshit we've been sufferering for the last seven years.
Is the video fake? Did the guy not make those comments? Doesn't the church actually sell copies of his sermons?

Seems to me that you are trying to keep his comments from being an issue by accusing anyone who mentions them of being a racist.

It's the old liberal "one word argument" at its best. Any time someone tries to discuss something a liberal doesn't want to discuss the liberal responds with a 'one word argument' that is meant to end the whole discussion.

examples:
Conservative: "Is American ready for a woman President?"
Liberal: "Why are you a sexist pig?"

Conservative: "Will Wright's comments hurt Obama?"
Liberal: "Are you a racist?"

Conservative: "Is waterboarding a useful technique?"
Liberal: "Why do you support torture?"

We see this technique on this board all the time and you're one of the worst offenders.
 

Sir Anonymous

Junior Member
Jan 20, 2008
20
0
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1) From where I am standing, McCain doesn't want us in Iraq for one hundred years. I believe he's made that comment purely to challenge the Democrat's political investment in leaving Iraq. I admit the comment will probably alienate some of the voters who have mentally invested in leaving Iraq, but it does put him out there as someone who doesn't conform to the current majority feeling on the War.

Of course, he's investing a great deal of his presidential future on the success of the troop surge. I hope he realizes that he can only resolve Iraq to a certain degree if he can bully the Shittes into giving the Sunnis more political power so the latter doesn't feel like the oppressed minority but rather than the minority that just doesn't have control over the parliament.

2) I'd say that Obama's "going after Osama in Pakistan without permission" is significant, considering part of the Democrat foreign relations stance nowadays is NOT invading a country without the permission of the UN, let alone just not invading any country at all. Combined with the Rev. Wright issue, it should ideally force Obama supporters to question how spotless their leader is. Not that this means that a Obama administration wouldn't have its benefits. For one thing, it would be the fulfillment (or partial fulfillment if you don't think Obama isn't "black enough") of the African American dream of having one of their own in charge. Plus Obama's uber-charisma would probably improve our image in the world, something that would be a little helpful. The cons are his obvious lack of experience and the fact that Republicans will use every tiny mistake he makes in office as political fuel for the 2012 election, just like how the Democrats have used every mistake Bush has made in office to seize Congress in 2006 and propell them in this election (though the Clinton-Obama War may take the wind out of those sails).

All in all, this election has been very entertaining so far.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Administrator
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Is the video fake? Did the guy not make those comments? Doesn't the church actually sell copies of his sermons?
Did Obama say those words, or did Obama specifically reject them?

As always, you'll pimp any lie, diversion or deception to pimp for those who would further your blood thirsty, war mongering agenda.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
5
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Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Is the video fake? Did the guy not make those comments? Doesn't the church actually sell copies of his sermons?
Did Obama say those words, or did Obama specifically reject them?

As always, you'll pimp any lie, diversion or deception to pimp for those who would further your blood thirsty, war mongering agenda.
Again you respond to my question by attacking me about the war. What does the war have to do with what Rev Wright said?

Obama went to this guys church for 20 years, he can't just stand up and dismiss the past 20 years of his life by saying he doesn't agree with the guy.

When Bush went to Bob Jones University in 2000 the press made a huge deal out of his ONE visit to the school. And now the same people who made such a big deal out of Bush's visit to this school want to look at 20 years of Obama's life and let it pass with a "oh he made a mistake"??

I don't think so.

Obama has been going around claiming that we should ignore his lack of experience and instead vote him based on his 'judgement' Well I think his judgement when it comes to which church to attend raises some serious questions.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Is the video fake? Did the guy not make those comments? Doesn't the church actually sell copies of his sermons?
Did Obama say those words, or did Obama specifically reject them?

As always, you'll pimp any lie, diversion or deception to pimp for those who would further your blood thirsty, war mongering agenda.
Again you respond to my question by attacking me about the war. What does the war have to do with what Rev Wright said?

Obama went to this guys church for 20 years, he can't just stand up and dismiss the past 20 years of his life by saying he doesn't agree with the guy.

When Bush went to Bob Jones University in 2000 the press made a huge deal out of his ONE visit to the school. And now the same people who made such a big deal out of Bush's visit to this school want to look at 20 years of Obama's life and let it pass with a "oh he made a mistake"??

I don't think so.
Have you been watching the news, you know, AT ALL lately? If anybody is "letting it pass" in the media, I sure as hell haven't noticed. The media, from the assholes at Fox News to the tools at CNN, have been flogging this story 24 hours a day for quite some time now.

Obama has been going around claiming that we should ignore his lack of experience and instead vote him based on his 'judgement' Well I think his judgement when it comes to which church to attend raises some serious questions.
Give me a break. If I examined your circle of friends and associates, or the friends and associates of nearly anyone in America who isn't a hermit, I bet I'd find at least one person who's said some stupid stuff at one point or another. Would it be fair to accuse you of agreeing with those handful of statements or try to tar you with some politically convenient label based on something somebody you know said?

This Obama thing is even dumber than the McCain comment bullshit (and for the record, I think it IS BS that McCain got tagged for what he said)...but then again, you folks tend to be the masters at making huge issues out of nothing at all.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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Well trust non Prof John to spout something straight out of Rush Limbaugh with---Any time someone tries to discuss something a liberal doesn't want to discuss the liberal responds with a 'one word argument' that is meant to end the whole discussion.

And only liberals distort the truth or use one word arguments. And all liberals do and no conservative ever does. And Conservatives never distort the truth with longer more convulsed idiocy. Would that sound more like what you are trying to say because it sounds exactly like something Rush Limbaugh says every day on the radio.

You, non-Prof John, have either never listed to Rush Limbaugh or employ triple standards when mere double standards are too transparent.

There may be no totally honest conservatives or liberals, there are mostly honest liberals and conservatives that can rationally discuss ideas and differences, and then there are people who will sully any discussion with assertions like you just made. If you can't contribute something rational to the discussion, why drag it down to your level of logical vacuum?

And in case you did not notice, as a liberal, I was willing to explain what I thought McCain meant by the statement. Implementing it may be another question, but McCain has some historical things to cite. And I also point out that just because one idea is bad, it does not make the antithesis argument correct or even into the better alternative.

I used to have a co worker who was totally conservative. And because he and I listened and thought, rather than using phony logic, we could spend many enjoyable hours over years of lunch breaks debating the issues of the day. And he did not "covert me" and I can't say I converted him. But the surprise for both of us was that we both had highly similar end goals and just differed over the means to get to them. I could have tried the punch him in the nose conversion strategy, but I would not have learned a damn thing in the process. Its possible to respect someone without agreeing with them.
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,434
79
91
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Is the video fake? Did the guy not make those comments? Doesn't the church actually sell copies of his sermons?
Did Obama say those words, or did Obama specifically reject them?

As always, you'll pimp any lie, diversion or deception to pimp for those who would further your blood thirsty, war mongering agenda.
Again you respond to my question by attacking me about the war. What does the war have to do with what Rev Wright said?

Obama went to this guys church for 20 years, he can't just stand up and dismiss the past 20 years of his life by saying he doesn't agree with the guy.

When Bush went to Bob Jones University in 2000 the press made a huge deal out of his ONE visit to the school. And now the same people who made such a big deal out of Bush's visit to this school want to look at 20 years of Obama's life and let it pass with a "oh he made a mistake"??

I don't think so.

Obama has been going around claiming that we should ignore his lack of experience and instead vote him based on his 'judgement' Well I think his judgement when it comes to which church to attend raises some serious questions.

Well put. :thumbsup:
 

Drift3r

Guest
Jun 3, 2003
3,572
0
0
Originally posted by: sportage
You need to remember or realize, on this one issue McCain is hand and hand with GWB.
They are head strong this is right and this is winnable.
No matter the length. No matter the cost i.e. money or blood.
To believe there is a difference between these two men, is terribly poor judgment.

And one HAS to remember from our history of war, NO president wants to be the one who pulls the plug and quits without a clean victory.
LBJ realized this and would not even seek reelection.
Nixon knew Nam was a lost battle, and fudged wording to get us out. (Peace with honor? remember?)

Don?t fool yourself and think McCain is going to shut this down.
Once he is elected, this becomes HIS war. Thats how it works. History is history.
And this thread is exactly why, whether Hillary or Obama, McCain has no chance.
It's his Vietnam all over again to try to win.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,083
189
106
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: loki8481
it's disingenuous at best, but it's nice to see someone actually call them on it:

'A Rank Falsehood'

killed."[/b]
I think your words are in the wrong order. he's saying if there's no bloodshed. he's *not* advocating slogging it out for a hundred years with dozens of soldiers dying every day.

I might be alone on this, but I trust McCain... I trust him if he thinks the war is winnable and I'd trust his judgment to reassess the situation if it's not. it certainly seems like a better plan than Obama's "we'll leave first and then come back later" strategy.
I think a lot of people think like this. But, he obviously doesn't think there is "enough" blood shed now... Since if he thought that way he would be telling you he was going to pull out tomorrow .... That being said, how much bloodshed has to be sacrificed before he thinks it's time to pull out? Maybe 3 or 5 times as much? Maybe 10-20X ... Who knows....

Dunno what the lady was saying he kept replying back "thank you" and "god bless" I felt it ot be a bit creepy that he would even acknowledge that... Maybe it was just me....

I also find it hard to believe that "anyone" unless you knew the guy personally is already trusting someone... I think trust is too easy to give here..... Kinda Sad really... Look how far "trusting" bush got you! Tho, never trusted or voted in any election that he ran for.

I still remember back a few years... This is how he saw it with his "OWN EYES"...

This is how I saw it watching the news. Walking down the street in Iraq's 'GREEN' zone... A whole army division with helicopters flying around over head and him in a bullet proof vest (He probably only walked a few blocks) telling every one how safe it was!!!!!!! Damn, what a dork! Yeah, the surge is working! Tell us another lie...
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Administrator
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Again you respond to my question by attacking me about the war. What does the war have to do with what Rev Wright said?
And I will continue to attack you for pimping your Traitor In Chief's war of lies with all of your own lies, distractions and diversions.

Last time I checked, this thread was about McCain's statement that he was willing to continue shoveling American bodies into Iraq for a hundred years. I said that he was detached from reality if he thought the bloodshed would end anytime soon or that American troops could remain there without casualties.

What do Rev Wright's statements have to do with that? Referring to them in this thread is just more of your usual diversions, distractions and lies, but that's all you ever do, and that's all I expect from you.
 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
15
81
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Is the video fake? Did the guy not make those comments? Doesn't the church actually sell copies of his sermons?
Did Obama say those words, or did Obama specifically reject them?

As always, you'll pimp any lie, diversion or deception to pimp for those who would further your blood thirsty, war mongering agenda.
This is where harvey starts bleeding kool-aid...

For a guy running on Judgement he sure looks a fool for staying there for 20 years. the damage is done...

AGAIN ARE WE STILL IN GERMANY?

Anyone have the brain switched on?
 

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