Why do cultures find certain exaggerations in women beautiful?

[yellowperil]

Beauty is defined very differently across cultures. In one culture, for instance, it is considered attractive for a woman to have her feet bound to the point that they are severely disfigured and she can't walk. In another culture women may place large disks inside their lower lip which stretches them out. Or stacking rings around their neck which causes it to stretch. Or tightening corsets to the point that the internal organs shift upward and cause respiratory problems. In this country we promote becoming as thin as possible and inserting implants inside the breast. It got me wondering, what defines physical beauty in women? Obviously it differs across cultures, but it seems like it many cultures it requires a woman to alter or exaggerate some part of her body, often at the expense of her health. Most of the women who are considered babes look like caricatures. Many porn stars and supermodels look unnatural, yet something about them turns us on. Why?

As a sidenote, I learned in my social psych class that there are certain 'universals' that define physical beauty in women. One is bilateral symmetry (same applies to males), another is facial features that suggest youth ('babyfaced' qualities), and another is a waist to hips ratio of 0.7. Regardless of these, they don't explain the need to distort part of the female anatomy to make it look attractive.

EDIT: changed title from "What defines physical beauty in women?"

 

[Elledan]

'Beauty' is mainly defined by culture and even varies within each culture. It's totally subjective for that reason.

 

[Sluggo]

You should have watch TLC (maybe Discovery) a few nights back, there was a whole hour long deal on it.

 

[yellowperil]

But you have to agree that even though beauty is subjective, our society has an unusually strong set of norms as to what's physically attractive or not. I mean, even though we know that what we're looking at is beautiful only in relative terms, we still treat it like it's absolute.

And the other question: why in the human race, does the male require the female to change herself in some way? In purely biological terms, how is this adaptive?

 

[cherrytwist]

<< You should have watch TLC (maybe Discovery) a few nights back, there was a whole hour long deal on it. >>



This man knows of what he speaks.

 

[DannyLove]

to me: eyes, face, hair, shape of body, legs, then details

danny~!

 

[flood]

Discover magazine, &quot;the science of beauty&quot;

 

[urameatball]

all guys have a beauty meter built in.

If he sees a beautiful woman, the beauty meter will rise.
If he sees a FUGLY woman, the beauty meter will droop down like there's no tomorrow.

 

[cherrytwist]

yellowperil - You are citing some pretty extreme examples there. I'd presume that most women worldwide don't alter their appearance dramatically (i.e. stacking rings, plates in their lips, binding feet, etc.).

Breast implants I don't get either (meaning I don't find them appealing whatsoever). Though it's my understanding that most women don't get these for males neccessarily, but for themselves. They want to look good for men, but they are catering to their own ego, lack of self-esteem, whatever.

I agree that our society has

<< ...an unusually strong set of norms as to what's physically attractive... >>

. Personally, I can see beauty in most every woman. Granted there are exceptions, but generally this is true. The most beautiful women to me are the most natural looking, untouched (meaning w/o makeup, disks in their lips, etc.) variety.

 

[yellowperil]

cherrytwist - You're right, most women in the world do not alter themselves dramatically, but it happens frequently enough that it's worth looking into. My personal theory (and this has no bearing on the truth) is that men are attracted to an ideal image of a woman that has some part of her anatomy (often one related to fertility) exaggerated. Although it's true that we are attracted to 'averages' or 'koinophilia' (thanks to flood5 for the great link BTW), a completely average woman is considered 'boring'. So an ideal is set up (somewhat arbitrarily, it seems) where women must work at their anatomies to appear desirable. AFAIK there are no cases where men have to change their anatomies in such extreme ways to become desirable to women.

As for the breast implant issue, my argument is that breast implants is one of the changes that has been developed in society recently that sets up the 'ideal' woman look. When women see this ideal image and the disparity between it and themselves, they lose self-esteem.

 

[CattyKathy]

<< Beauty is in the eye of the beholder; always has been and always will be. >>



totally

 

[JRKIO]

I thought it was boobs

 

[CattyKathy]

<< I thought it was boobs >>


LoLz, hee hee, that's what I thought....wait, it's true

 

[pulpp]

eyes and hair are what catches my attention first usually

 

[CattyKathy]

<<

<<

<< Beauty is in the eye of the beholder; always has been and always will be. >>



totally >>



w00t! BratKat quoted me, now I'm REALLY cool! >>


Hee hee, it's in my sig too hee hee, I stole it

 

[Aihyah]

As for the breast implant issue, my argument is that breast implants is one of the changes that has been developed in society recently that sets up the 'ideal' woman look. When women see this ideal image and the disparity between it and themselves, they lose self-esteem.


well, they make a flat womans boobies more fun to play with too... no? I'm not talking DDD here

 

[CattyKathy]

<< <~~ just got jacked from BratKat!



<< Hee hee, it's in my sig too hee hee, I stole it >>

>>


Hee hee ~meow!~

 

[Elledan]

<<

<<

<< <~~ just got jacked from BratKat!



<< Hee hee, it's in my sig too hee hee, I stole it >>

>>


Hee hee ~meow!~ >>



I'll get you back, just you watch! >>

Don't you think that one nef thread is already enough?!

 

[mjquilly]

<< What defines physical beauty in women? >>



Well, Laetitia Casta is the definition of a physically beautiful woman, if that helps you out.

 

[PoonDaddy007]

I remember seeing some show on this subject, maybe on the Discovery Channel. A guy was searching for the &quot;ideal&quot; woman. He says it has to do with the ratio of the hips to waist for women. If the ratio of waist circumference to hips is .7 then for one reason or another, that woman is &quot;ideal.&quot; I recall some models fall in here, Naomi Campell, Cindy Crawford, etc. Don't really know if this helps but, if you want to find ideal women go out with a ruler and measure women to find their ratios.

For men and women, beauty of the face is characterized by symmatry(sp). The most symmetrical faces are the most attractive to people. Which I guess is somewhat true, no one wants to see a lop-sided face. I recall, Denzel Washington having a super-symmetrical face, and I think women like him.

So if you can find a woman with a magic ratio of .7 and a super symmetrical face, then she might be the most beautiful woman in the world.

As for me, again, it's in the eye of the beholder. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Elledan]

<< Don't really know if this helps but, if you want to find ideal women go out with a ruler and measure women to find their ratios. >>

And being slapped across the face? Forget it

Serious, it could be that those ratios are somehow linked to fertility, i.e. the ability to get healthy offspring.
I'm not certain about the function or cause of symmetry.

 

[yellowperil]

Yeah they did studies and found that a waist to hips ratio of 0.7 is most conducive to childbearing. Apparently it's an evolutionary reason why men prefer women with this ratio. As for the bilateral symmetry, flood5 posted a link to an article which explains pretty well how symmetry suggests having good genes, i.e., features that aren't deviant from the norm and are favored to be passed on. What isn't too clear is why certain societies define the female's attractiveness by how much she exaggerates certain features of fertility. I haven't read anything providing a theory explaining this.

Gotta hit the sack now.

 

[Elledan]

<< Discover magazine, &quot;the science of beauty&quot; >>

Just read some articles from this site. Pretty interesting

 

[Phunktion]

Good reading.. thanks flood5

 

[yellowperil]

I just said above that exaggerated features suggesting fertility are maybe considered beautiful. I was thinking maybe the exaggerated females suggest more fertility than average females. But then again, most of us look at swollen lips, stretched necks, and highly compressed waists as highly unattractive, even gross. So it appears that exaggeration is culture specific, which brings it back to the original problem of why it is adaptive. Hmmm....