Why do all the google results say the Queen of England isn't the wealthiest woman?

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Whiskey16,

As I implied (hopefully) in that 'Queen of England' post one can opine when one speaks to England sans the rest of GB that Elizabeth ll is their Queen... IOW, Sure England is part of GB and she is the monarch of that entity but I opined in the sense of the residents of oh... Wigan. And, who is their Queen... In a deeper sense, it seems to me that each of the elements of GB are set up to have their own governments and all that and in my thinking they are separate entities under the umbrella of the 1707 act you mentioned.
But, I'll defer and not argue the technical point that you rightly endorse.
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
Yes, thank you, LunarRay, in the Acts of Union in 1707 the seperate crowns of England and Scotland merged into a single realm known as Great Britain. It is a misnomer to continue to think there remains an English sovereign -- the one crowned is British. ;)
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,503
50,662
136
Since America seceded from England illegally, all our debt is also the queen's, so that explains why she's not richer than Oprah.

Very true, much as how the Constitution was illegally ratified over the Articles of Confederation,(as our good friend A420 loves to claim) the establishment of the AoC was also in violation of British law. I'm guessing the establishment of England/Britain was in violation of the previous ruling order's law too however, so that state was probably illegal to begin with.

Shit. Down the rabbit hole!
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
The whole wealth of the UK, even the very person-hood of every peasant, are hers.
No.

Ignornace is strong.

An echo chamber, again I see. Failure to recognise existing posts that chastice such a falsehood....

"Peasants"? Ahh, the feudal society of Leistershire and its currie..

Stating that the sky is green does not make it so.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
No.
Ignornace is strong.
An echo chamber, again I see. Failure to recognise existing posts that chastice such a falsehood....
"Peasants"? Ahh, the feudal society of Leistershire and its currie..
Stating that the sky is green does not make it so.
Do not attempt to reason with CoW. Any mention of Britain or royalty immediately shifts him into TurboTroll.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
No.

Ignornace is strong.

An echo chamber, again I see. Failure to recognise existing posts that chastice such a falsehood....

"Peasants"? Ahh, the feudal society of Leistershire and its currie..

Stating that the sky is green does not make it so.

Ignore him, he has a severe trolling issue when it comes to England.
 

Broheim

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2011
4,587
2
81
is rabidmongoose still banned? because I see CoW spouting his usual nonsense but his sockpuppet is MIA...
 

Saracen

Junior Member
Nov 11, 2011
14
0
0
The Queen is the commander in chief. She can do anything she wants. She's still ultimately the Sovereign, not the body of the people represented in parliament.

That's the problem. The UK's Constitution is uncodified and is just based on tradition. Suppose her successor (don't know who it will be) doesn't like democracy?

The same problem exists, although to a lesser degree with the U.S. Federal Constitution in that it's written, but it also is ambiguous.
Well, the UK does not have a commander in chief as such, not in the sense that the US does anyway.

For instance, who has the ultimate power in the UK to order the country to war? The Prime Minister does. And right now, without reference to Parliament or the Queen.

Who holds the power to order a nuclear launch? The Prime Minister does, not the Queen.

But you're certainly right, to a degree, about the UK constitution being uncodified .... but to to an degree. It is partially codified, if that doesn't seem like a contradiction in terms. Let me put it this way. Over the years, and indeed centuries, the power of the Crown has been limited and restriced in many ways. Some are formal, written and Acts of Parliament, and some are common law. You can look on common law as "tradition" but it is a tradition that has the force of law behind it because it's been the way some things have been done for so long that courts uphold it.

So sure, the Queen is the monarch, and in theory has extensive powers, but as I said, she has many of those powers because she carefully chooses to not try to exercise them. For instance, the final stage of the legislative process is the Royal Assent by which the monarch 'approves' any Act of Parliament into law, and in theory, could either withhold or defer assent.

Butr when did the British Monarch last withhold that Royal Aasent, and frustrate the will of Parliament? To the best of my ability to find out, it was 1708. So given about 300 years of not exercising it, I think it's pretty safe to refer to the "power" as largely theoretical, and it's a safe bet that if it ever was exercised, it would rapidly follow that the power would be removed, and quite possibly, the monarchy with it.

The Queen is also still currently Head of State in many (if not all ) commonwealth countries, including Australia and, IIRC, Canada. The same "theoretical" principle applies there. In Australia, laws still require the Royal Assent, given in practice by the approval of the Governor-General. Up until, what, 80 years ago the Governor-General was the choice of the UK soverign, for which you can read UK government, acting on the "advice" of the Australian premier. But that came to a head then the British Government wanted a different G-G to the Australians, and the Australians won that show-down. It is now "tradition" that the Governor-General, while nominally a representative of the British monarch with theoretical powers to frustrate Austrialian legislation by withholding Royal Assent, is actually the choice of an effectively appointee of the Australian minnisters and acts on Advice of Australian ministers. It is, in practice, an entirely ceremonial "approval". And last time I saw a poll among Australians, retaining the Queen as Head of State was the popular choice among a significant majority, but I'd bet by house that that approval would vanish ion a heartbeat if either the British government or British Monarch tried to actually tell the Aussie government what to do, or to refuse to "assent" legislation they'd passed.

While that power exists in theory, if it was ever exercised, it'd rapidly been removed, and the notion of either the Australians or Canadians accepting actual rule, or diktat, from Britain is laughable, even if theoretically and perhaps constitutionally, it may still be the case. And it's much the same in Britain. If no monarch has exercised a power in more than 300 years, it's a safe bet they know what would happen if they did.

So the Queen can do "what she wants"? No, though in theory she has very broad powers, they are ceremonial in practice, in almost all cases. She is the 'ultimate authority' in theory, and when the PM issues orders for defence of the realm, he does so in the Queen's name, effectively including a nuclear launch. For instance, if the PM lost his mind and ordered a nuclear strike, or to go to war, it has been made quite clear by previous heads of the defence staff that the order would not be carried out, and that the option to revert back to the Queen exists. But if that order was legitimate and bucked the will not only of the PM but of the government, and the monarch blocked it, I have no doubt it would spell the end of the monarch's ability to do it, just as withholding Royal Assent in Australia would result in the removal of the monarch.

The "tradition" that things are done a certain way is, in fact, a very powerful driver, and while it may not have the codification that the US constitution has, it is ion some ways, more rigid and powerful even than that. For instance, it's far from unknown for lawyers to try to either change the constitution, or to find exceptions, reinterpretations or loopholes, while with much of that "tradition", it hold so strong largely because much of it is not written down, and smart-ass lawyers can't try to weasel reinterpretations out of if in the same way.
 

Saracen

Junior Member
Nov 11, 2011
14
0
0
Personally, I suspect she is.

But realize any list you will find is a guess only. That type of information is private.

Secondly, the use of trusts to hold to hold assets makes this very difficult. Again, trust info will be private. Also, if you put your assets into an irrevocable-type trusts it can legitimately be said it is no longer yours personally even though you may have 100% control. Then there's the question of beneficiaries, again that's private into. I mention trusts because my understanding (obtained while living in London) was that much of the crown's assets are held in trusts.

Fern
That's an issue that causes a lot of confusion. A lot of the notional wealth of the Queen is hers in that it belongs to her, but it belongs to her as sovereign, not personally. When the sovereign changes, the ownership of those assets (about £7 billion / US$11 billion) changes too. The point is that that "ownership" is notional, not real. The Queen does not have control over the utilisation of those assets, cannot dispose of them and does not benefit from the revenue from them.

And nor does the current government, at least in terms of controlling the assets or disposing of them. The Crown Estates are controlled and managed by independent commissioners, established and protected by Act of Parliament, and the "assets" are held in trust, if you like, for the nation. The Queen can't dispose of the them and the government can't sell them off for short-term political purposes. They are, in a sense, "nailed down". The "trust" doesn't just protect the assets from the sovereign, but from the government of the day as well.

So, do they count as the "wealth" of the Queen? The Queen as sovereign, yes, but the Queen as an individual, no. There's no simple answer to that question.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Because they are wrong. These lists can only go off what is known. Income, stock holdings etc. Her wealth is so old, secret, and locked through layers of trusts it was and will never be made public. It's also like the Saudi royals. I suspect they are the richest men in the world considering 20 trillion has been transferred there since oil was found and country only has like 5 million they need to placate while royals reap all rewards..
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
Because they are wrong. These lists can only go off what is known. Income, stock holdings etc. Her wealth is so old, secret, and locked through layers of trusts it was and will never be made public. It's also like the Saudi royals. I suspect they are the richest men in the world considering 20 trillion has been transferred there since oil was found and country only has like 5 million they need to placate while royals reap all rewards..
Well, yes. The Rockefellers and Rothschilds are 2 good examples of personal wealth in trusts. You're also right about the House of Saudi being the wealthiest people in the world, because they definitely do own that land which includes everythign that can be mined from it.

The body of 2/3 of Congress and the legislatures of 3/4 of the States are also extraordinarely wealth because the individuals in that body could take all the wealth in the entire country and in U.S. territories for themselves.
 

StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,883
1,096
126
As has been explained many times on this forum, the Queen (or King) is technically the head of state. However it is all theoretical and if they even remotely got a bit uppity they would quickly lose even that privilege.

This is even more the case in other counties, like Australia and Canada. It's simply a traditional thing and any such attempt to interfere would result in her just being ignored and quickly written out of power by the countries parliament.

Countries like the UK/Aus/Canada/NZ are amongst the most politically stable in the world so I guess they see no reason to bother to change it.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,503
50,662
136
As has been explained many times on this forum, the Queen (or King) is technically the head of state. However it is all theoretical and if they even remotely got a bit uppity they would quickly lose even that privilege.

This is even more the case in other counties, like Australia and Canada. It's simply a traditional thing and any such attempt to interfere would result in her just being ignored and quickly written out of power by the countries parliament.

Countries like the UK/Aus/Canada/NZ are amongst the most politically stable in the world so I guess they see no reason to bother to change it.

Exactly. The Queen isn't one of the richest people in the world because we all know exactly what would happen is she tried to cash in her wealth and take it somewhere. She would have that taken away from her so fast her crown would spin.
 

Aluvus

Platinum Member
Apr 27, 2006
2,913
1
0
The body of 2/3 of Congress and the legislatures of 3/4 of the States are also extraordinarely wealth because the individuals in that body could take all the wealth in the entire country and in U.S. territories for themselves.

I assume you are ignoring that they would need the consent of the Supreme Court (when legal challenges inevitably get filed), and the executive branch from the president/governor down (who would actually enforce any such decision), and also a majority of the citizens in several states (as a number of states have mechanisms for referendums that can override legislation, and/or recall elections to prevent a second attempt). And even in states without such measures, a sufficiently enraged population could simply decide to replace the current regime by force (at which point you can add the military and National Guard units to the list of required supporters). And one has to imagine that foreign powers would also get involved at that point, and not on the side of the kleptocrats.

So no, basically. The system has a lot of checks and balances for a reason.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
I don't really think anyone knows who the wealthiest person in the world really is.

All indications point to Gaddafi being one of the (if not the) richest person in the world ($200 billion) at the time he was removed from power. It was a similar situation with Mubarak ($70 billion).

With the information coming out about Gaddafi and Mubarak, someone like Kim Jong Il or Castro might be the richest person in the world.
 
Last edited:

iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
1
0
I'd opine that Elizabeth ll is the Queen of England as well as Canada, et seq... James Vl of Scotland became James l of England in 1603 when Lizzy 1 died and I guess in around 1700 Scotland and England and Ireland became the United Kingdom...

But I see it all as a difference with out too much of a distinction...
Elizabeth ll is the queen of the common wealth (16 countries).

Antigua & Barbuda, Australia, The Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts & Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent & the Grenadiens, Solomon Islands, Tuvalu, and United Kingdom.

Commonwealth realm
 

iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
1
0
It is likely that Elizabeth the II is one of the wealthiest head of state. It was noted in 1992 that the Queen had 3 billions pounds in net assets and cash (didn't have to pay income tax or capital gains), however since then the queen diversified her holding by moving her wealth to the heirs and family as an attempt to take the public eyes off the mountain of illegitimate gains.
 

Saracen

Junior Member
Nov 11, 2011
14
0
0
Exactly. The Queen isn't one of the richest people in the world because we all know exactly what would happen is she tried to cash in her wealth and take it somewhere. She would have that taken away from her so fast her crown would spin.
She certainly isn't one of the richest in the world in that a lot of "her" wealth is hers as monarch, not hers personally. But she is also very wealthy indeed, in her own, personal right. A very large amount of wealth may be in a form of trust, but a very substantial amount isn't.

One of the richest in the world? No.

But rich beyond most people's wildest dreams? Oh, yes.