Why didn't Ergonomic keyboards catch on?

[fustercluck]

Thought my Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 Keyboard died this morning. Looks like it's ok but got me into looking for a backup in case it's on it's last legs. Come to find that just about the only Ergonomic keyboard out there still is the Microsoft Natural 4000 after all these years.

Most people are still using the basic keyboard style from the 80s/90s it seems. I guess it's hard to get used to something else after you have been using a basic keyboard for so long. I would never go back to a basic KB myself.

speaking of ergonomic stuffs, does anyone have a computer chair like this?: LINK - I wonder if it would help posture and not be terribly uncomfortable.

 

[corkyg]

My sense is that touch typists are a minority among computer users, and the ergo keyboards are not wonderful for hunt & peckers like me. And, another reason might be the expanded use of laptops and tablets, none of which can accomodate the split keyboards.

In the same vein, why have most stayed with QWERTY when Dvorak is actually faster? I guess it relates to folks not liking change.

80s & 90s? 'Fraid you need to go back a lot father than that. Try the late 19th century!

http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/qwerty.htm

 

[fustercluck]

My sense is that touch typists are a minority among computer users, and the ergo keyboards are not wonderful for hunt & peckers like me. And, another reason might be the expanded use of laptops and tablets, none of which can accomodate the split keyboards.

In the same vein, why have most stayed with QWERTY when Dvorak is actually faster? I guess it relates to folks not liking change.

80s & 90s? 'Fraid you need to go back a lot father than that. Try the late 19th century!

http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/qwerty.htm

Heh didn't realize QWERTY was 120 years old! Also a good point about laptops.

 

[Eureka]

On the other hand, the ergo 4000 has dropped to lows of $20. Bought another one during the last sale.

There's a keyboard known as the TrulyErgonomic. You should check it out.

 

[Remobz]

Personally, I didn't like using ergos. Just a personal preference thing.

 

[Saffron]

My sense is that touch typists are a minority among computer users, and the ergo keyboards are not wonderful for hunt & peckers like me. And, another reason might be the expanded use of laptops and tablets, none of which can accomodate the split keyboards.

In the same vein, why have most stayed with QWERTY when Dvorak is actually faster? I guess it relates to folks not liking change.

80s & 90s? 'Fraid you need to go back a lot father than that. Try the late 19th century!

http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/qwerty.htm

The whole point of the QWERTY keyboard was to slow typing down, else the keys in type writers would jam.

Yes the Dvorak key layout is faster and can improve your typing speed at least 20% if not more. I've heard of people achieving 130 words per minute without mistakes using the Dvorak layout.

 

[BrightCandle]

QWERTY and the basic keyboard design turns out to be good enough. Sure you can produce a more comfortable and more efficient layout but few people actually manage to type fast enough to max out the standard layout and don't have discomfort issues with the basic keyboard. DVORAK and other layouts can be highly beneficial, I myself do find it faster but still use qwerty because sometimes I share a keyboard with pair programming and it becomes a bit of an issue as other people don't learn it. I haven't used dvorak for at least a year now and I doubt I will go back.

 

[Dstoop]

Honestly, I found ergonomic keyboards to be extremely uncomfortable.

They're also pretty atrocious for gaming, where typing is less of an emphasis and you're more using the keyboard as a controller with one hand constantly on the mouse. You don't want to be reaching far distances to hit keys, and that big gap makes it really inefficient in many cases.

 

[Zargon]

too had to go use other computers and laptops when I was used to using an ergo

 

[piasabird]

My response is too many cheap bastards. Either that or people are use to normal keyboards.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Had one of those chairs once. They're alright. You gotta pay attention to back/posture though. It's not that the chair is ergonomic, it just stays out of your way and doesn't force you into a bad position - but it doesn't prevent you from slouching and screwing your back up either, you just don't get to blame the chair.

Good core.

 

[ViviTheMage]

I always felt they were uncomfortable too, similar to a track mouse ball dealio.

 

[Puppies04]

Ergonomic keyboards suffer the same fate of being sidelined that the wankel engine does. I have read about both being superior to the existing "status quo" but they are deemed "too different" by most people who are scared of having to learn new things.

I personally don't use one, I don't feel that I am limited in any measurable way by a standard qwerty layout even though I am sure I could learn to love an ergonomic keyboard.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Ergonomic keyboards suffer the same fate of being sidelined that the wankel engine does. I have read about both being superior to the existing "status quo" but they are deemed "too different" by most people who are scared of having to learn new things.

Wankel engines are sidelined because they are worse then 4 stroke piston engines for most tasks.
Ergonomic keyboards are sidelined for similar reasons. They are good for one thing, extended typing, for everything else they are not very good. Even for touch typists there is a learning curve to using them during which they are a much slower typer, and not much gain for that extra work.

 

[Scooby Doo]

My sense is that touch typists are a minority among computer users, and the ergo keyboards are not wonderful for hunt & peckers like me. And, another reason might be the expanded use of laptops and tablets, none of which can accomodate the split keyboards.

In the same vein, why have most stayed with QWERTY when Dvorak is actually faster? I guess it relates to folks not liking change.

80s & 90s? 'Fraid you need to go back a lot father than that. Try the late 19th century!

http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/qwerty.htm

Wasn't that whole Dvorak thing faster debunked a while ago or at best a tie?

Also I like using the Ms natural keyboard for gaming, the split in the middle makes it easy to use the "t/y","g/h" and more importantly "b/n" keys. Although I've been eying the Steel Merc Stealth, just wish it was also ergo.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Wasn't that whole Dvorak thing faster debunked a while ago or at best a tie?

By the US Navy, in the 1930s (when typing pools were a thing.)

Basically, you can be retrained to be faster on a Dvorak than on a QWERTY, but the productivity loss during retraining means the payoff/break-even comes years and years later.

 

[Cerb]

Most people are still using the basic keyboard style from the 80s/90s it seems. I guess it's hard to get used to something else after you have been using a basic keyboard for so long. I would never go back to a basic KB myself.

I would never go to a keyboard that required me to hold my arms up at an uncomfortable angle to use, or crook my wrists inward in an uncomfortable manner. It hurts within minutes, whenever I'm at someone's computer with one of those so-called "ergonomic" keyboards. They're as bad is tiny trackballs (big track balls, OTOH, are awesome), and wrist rests.

The biggest problem is likely not that a squared design is truly best, so much as that to be ergonomic, it would need to be adjustable, like a chair. An ergonomic keyboard without the space in the middle, and at a slighter angle, like maybe 5-10 degree, I might very well get on with, FI (provided it also uses good keys, which another failing of the popular MS one).

 

[mv2devnull]

Also I like using the Ms natural keyboard for gaming, the split in the middle makes it easy to use the "t/y","g/h" and more importantly "b/n" keys. Although I've been eying the Steel Merc Stealth, just wish it was also ergo.

2KRO. I'd want to get three keys from the QWEASD block and two arrow keys simultaneously on MS 4000. Not a chance.

Otherwise, I've used MS Naturals over a decade now. Lovely. Lack of mechanical switches and NKRO have now started to itch though.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I used to use those ergonomic kb's until I wanted mechanical keys and well the ones with them are outrageously priced. I also had trouble at work since all pc's had standard kb's so I just went back to a standard layout and after a short relearning curve I've used them since. Now I wouldn't go back to one even if you gave it to me.

 

[Dirigible]

I dunno. I tore a tendon in my wrist about fifteen years ago. Now normal keyboards are torture while ergos are fine.

Wish there were more ergo choices.

 

[CHADBOGA]

Because I use a Non-ergonomic keyboard at work all day, I didn't want a different set up for home.

By having the same at work and home, my typing abilities improved a fair bit.

 

[Eureka]

I would never go to a keyboard that required me to hold my arms up at an uncomfortable angle to use, or crook my wrists inward in an uncomfortable manner. It hurts within minutes, whenever I'm at someone's computer with one of those so-called "ergonomic" keyboards. They're as bad is tiny trackballs (big track balls, OTOH, are awesome), and wrist rests.

The biggest problem is likely not that a squared design is truly best, so much as that to be ergonomic, it would need to be adjustable, like a chair. An ergonomic keyboard without the space in the middle, and at a slighter angle, like maybe 5-10 degree, I might very well get on with, FI (provided it also uses good keys, which another failing of the popular MS one).

If the angle isn't working for you, chances are you also have a bad sitting/desk posture. Table level should be below elbow height, regardless of keyboard.

 

[lupi]

Cat stand them for normal use and abysmal for games.

 

[Cerb]

If the angle isn't working for you, chances are you also have a bad sitting/desk posture.

No, it's uncomfortable because it adds unnecessary angle, on two axes, makes single-handed shortcuts two-handed shortcuts, by spacing things out too much, and the only popular one has terrible keys.

Problem: it is both uncomfortable and damaging to put your hands straight forward and crimping in, as is needed to utilize the home row for touch-typing.

Ergonomic Keyboard Solution: split each home row side, and angle them so that they're closer to resting hands.

Solution by basically everyone I know that has used computers from a young age, and every PC gamer I know my age or younger: never get taught touch-typing, and don't put your hands in such an awkward position in the first place.

If I rest my hands on my keyboard, my left hand goes to capslock, Q|W, E|R, G, and my right to enter, P|[, I|O, J (where | is the space between keys).

Table level should be below elbow height, regardless of keyboard.

The keyboard tray should be there. The mouse should be at a different height, for the same basic reason, since you'd otherwise need your arm at an extended horizontal angle to use of the mouse, or to hunch over rightwards (you could bypass that need with a keyboard that had no keys right of backspace, I guess, or by being a lefty). As a righty, that means the rest of the table should be above my resting elbow.

 

[Subyman]

If you are going to spend some money on an ergonomic chair, you may as well go all in. I purchased a Steelcase Leap office chair about 8 months ago. It's been the best computer related purchase I've ever bought. I can literally sit for 10+ hours without any discomfort (not that I do that often haha.) I used to have tail bone issues and back fatigue using normal desk chairs, all that disappeared using the leap.

I've used the kneeling chairs before and they are okay. I'd get that as a secondary chair to change position to every so often, but not as a main sitter.

If price is an issue, Steelcase makes cheaper ones as well. The Amia is great. Don't waste money on anything under 400 bucks though. Look at what serious tech companies buy. It's mostly Steelcase, Knoll, and Herman Miller. Steelcase has a 15 year warranty too.