- Sep 15, 2002
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Just a question that's been burning in the back of my head. I mean yeah we "had" to stop communism, but who cares if they took that worthless strip of high desert? Did we have to stop the Opium trade? Oops.
Why did we help arm the mujahideen?
- Thread starter judasmachine
- Start date
Afew reasons.
It was an attempt by Carter and Reagan to put more pressure on the Soviet Union. They put pressure on us by outfitting the north vietnamese, we did the same with the afghan rebels. Afghanistan is actually constantly referred to by historians as the USSR's Vietnam.
The Carter doctrine is what really took effect here because that doctrine made it clear that we considered the middle east absolutely vital to American interests and we would consider any attempt spread communism to that region a direct threat which we would respond to.
The domino theory also led us to believe than Afghanistan could lead to the toppling of other governments in the area which we could not allow.
It was an attempt by Carter and Reagan to put more pressure on the Soviet Union. They put pressure on us by outfitting the north vietnamese, we did the same with the afghan rebels. Afghanistan is actually constantly referred to by historians as the USSR's Vietnam.
The Carter doctrine is what really took effect here because that doctrine made it clear that we considered the middle east absolutely vital to American interests and we would consider any attempt spread communism to that region a direct threat which we would respond to.
The domino theory also led us to believe than Afghanistan could lead to the toppling of other governments in the area which we could not allow.
- Sep 15, 2002
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OK you gave me some more google fodder. I couldn't find anything where I was looking, and thought this was a good place to ask. Believe it or not I was just asking for my education.
Yes we did and after the war I believe they turned into the Northern Alliance and ended up fighting the Taliban for control, and losing, until we helped to send the Taliban running for the hills of Pakistan.
There was also a movement afoot to put a pipeline from Uzbekistan/Tajikistan across Afghanistan to refineries in Pakistan. They wanted a friendly government in place in Afghanistan so they could build this pipeline on what they felt were reasonable terms.
Thump553
Lifer
- Jun 2, 2000
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Not only did we arm them, but at the time Osama bin Laden was our bosom buddy, whom we armed and trained. This was done with widespread public support in the US, as the perception was something had to be done to stop USSR's blatant invasion of it's neighbor.
OBL was so encouraged having a ragtag bunch stalemate and ultimately drive out a super power's army that he evolved his mission into driving out the infidels and their influence from the entire Arab world.
Unintended consequences are often a byproduct of foreign adventurism.
OBL was so encouraged having a ragtag bunch stalemate and ultimately drive out a super power's army that he evolved his mission into driving out the infidels and their influence from the entire Arab world.
Unintended consequences are often a byproduct of foreign adventurism.
Actually, we funded pretty much any of the organized groups of fighters willing to go up against the Russians. The thing is that we passed most of this funding to them through the Pakistani Military Intelligence or ISI. They have a significant number of members who have radical Muslim beliefs and so they were preferential to many of the more radical Muslim commanders.
Gulbuddin Hekmatyar (http://www.afghan-web.com/bios/today/ghekmatyar.html) is a good example of this. He received quite a bit of support from the US through the ISI. Initially he aligned himself with people wanting to create a 'pure Islamic' state in Afghanistan after the Russians left. Then he aligned himself with the post-soviet government. Then he went independent. Then he aligned himself with the Taliban. These commanders changed alliances on almost a monthly basis. Currently he continues to threaten the government of Hamid Karzai is still being sought in the mountains along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border.
Osama Bin Laden could have gotten some funding the same way as Hekmatyar, but he actually self-funded or found donors within the Muslim world. That was his primary role, one of a facilitator, not a commander or front line fighter.
Orignal Earl
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CaptnKirk
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Whoozyerdaddy
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Ummm... not quite.
There were two sides to the Mujahideen, the Afghans and the (mostly) Saudi Arabs. The US funded the Afghan side of the war primarily through the Pakistani ISI. There was also some direct CIA funding and arming as well.
The imported, jihadist Arab side was mostly funded by Saudi money. We never funded OBL and he was never our bosom buddy. When the war ended, we cut off our side but the Arab side continured to receive funding from their backers in the ME. They eventually formed the Taliban government while the Afghan Mujahideen became the Northern Alliance.
OBL's anger toward the west didn't explode into Al Quaeda until the US used Saudi lands to push Saddam out of Quwait.
I'm at work right now and my specific info on this subject is at home. I'll add to this later.
Yep, and what really pissed OBL off was that he had gone to the powers that be in Saudi Arabia and offered the services of his band of fighters to drive Saddam Hussein out of SA and Kuwait and they chose to have the US and it's alliance (mostly non-Muslims) do the deed instead. This is when he began his demands for all infidels to leave Arabs lands.
You should read 'Ghosts Wars' by Steven Coll. It is an in-depth discussion of the US relationship with the Muslim world, especially Afghanistan, from the time of the Soviet invasion up to and through the attacks on 9/11. It is a highly referenced and cross-checked book, and it describes Bin Laden exactly as I have. He was primarily a source of funds for those doing most of the fighting. Some of the money was his, some of it was from his contacts in the Arab world.
Albatross
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- Jul 17, 2001
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the US should have nuked the soviet union after the second world war.communist china,korea,vietnam,cuban missile crisis,radical leftist movements in latin america and africa,afghanistan all these and more could have been probably avoided.the devil in the last century spoke russian.
Orignal Earl
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I agree that his primary duty was getting funds, just saying from what I've read, he also got in there down and dirty on the frontlines with the Soviets
Actually the US did not fund the mujahideen.
There were two groups fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan: Native Afghans and the "Arab Afghans" (bin Laden and Company). The "Arab Afghans" can from Arab states like Iraq, Eygpt, Saudi Arabia, etc.
All the money that was given by the United States was given to the Native Afghans, since the "Arab Afghans" had their own source of funds. What ever funds the "Arab Afghans" were given, the The Regan Administration matched it and give it to the Native Afghans. After the war the US pulled out, and the "Arab Afghans" took over and became the Taliban. The Native Afghans became what now known as the Northern Alliance which had been fighting the Taliban since 1995 util the 2001 invasion.
Al Qaeda's number two leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri, confirmed that the "Afghan Arabs" did not receive any U.S. funding during the war in Afghanistan. In the book that was described as his last will, Knights Under the Prophet's Banner, which was serialized in December 2001 in Al-Sharq al-Awsat, al-Zawahiri says the Afghan Arabs were funded with money from Arab sources, which amounted to hundreds of millions of dollars:
Abdullah Anas, an Algerian who was one of the foremost Afghan Arab organizers and the son-in-law of Abdullah Azzam, has also confirmed that the CIA had no relationship with the Afghan Arabs. Speaking on the French television program Zone Interdit on September 12, 2004, Anas stated:
Milt Bearden served as the CIA station chief in Pakistan from 1986 to 1989, where he was in charge of running the covert action program for Afghanistan. In his memoirs titled "The Main Enemy: The Inside Story of the CIA's Final Showdown with the KGB," Bearden says the United States, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, China, Egypt, and the UK were "major players" in the effort to aid the Afghans. Bearden writes:
There were two groups fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan: Native Afghans and the "Arab Afghans" (bin Laden and Company). The "Arab Afghans" can from Arab states like Iraq, Eygpt, Saudi Arabia, etc.
All the money that was given by the United States was given to the Native Afghans, since the "Arab Afghans" had their own source of funds. What ever funds the "Arab Afghans" were given, the The Regan Administration matched it and give it to the Native Afghans. After the war the US pulled out, and the "Arab Afghans" took over and became the Taliban. The Native Afghans became what now known as the Northern Alliance which had been fighting the Taliban since 1995 util the 2001 invasion.
Al Qaeda's number two leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri, confirmed that the "Afghan Arabs" did not receive any U.S. funding during the war in Afghanistan. In the book that was described as his last will, Knights Under the Prophet's Banner, which was serialized in December 2001 in Al-Sharq al-Awsat, al-Zawahiri says the Afghan Arabs were funded with money from Arab sources, which amounted to hundreds of millions of dollars:
Abdullah Anas, an Algerian who was one of the foremost Afghan Arab organizers and the son-in-law of Abdullah Azzam, has also confirmed that the CIA had no relationship with the Afghan Arabs. Speaking on the French television program Zone Interdit on September 12, 2004, Anas stated:
Milt Bearden served as the CIA station chief in Pakistan from 1986 to 1989, where he was in charge of running the covert action program for Afghanistan. In his memoirs titled "The Main Enemy: The Inside Story of the CIA's Final Showdown with the KGB," Bearden says the United States, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, China, Egypt, and the UK were "major players" in the effort to aid the Afghans. Bearden writes:
Actually, it depended on who in the Taliban organizaton they talked to and which day of the week. They were negotiating the terms for a very long time without making much if any progress. It didn't happen more because there was no decision than there being an absolute decree of no.
If you agree with me then why did you post this:
I never said he didn't fight, I said his primary role was as a facilitator. Yet you tell me I'm wrong and then you turn around and agree with me. I'm very confused.
All of the fighters who were given money by the US through the ISI did not become part of the Northern Alliance. Hekmatyar is a very good example. He never joined the Northern Alliance but he did receive significant funds from the US through the ISI. He was one of the ISI's favored commanders. He was the commander of the first group of rebels to get Stinger missiles. He was also the rebel commander closest to OBL when he first arrived in Pakistan. Most of his fighters ended up with the Taliban and he was exiled to Iran.
Orignal Earl
Diamond Member
- Oct 27, 2005
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I'm sorry to make you so confused, take it easy. I screwed up with your first post, focusing on the *not a commander or front line fighter part*. I thought my second post explained that.
Carry on
azazyel
Diamond Member
- Oct 6, 2000
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dude, you guys are all wrong. Ya see we really weren't doing all that much for them until one our Colonels was captured by the Russians so we then had to get tough. So anyways what we did is get this buffed up Vietnam vet who was like a super solider and sent him in. I think the guys name was John, well he goes in helps out the Afghans and totally rescues the colonel and wipes out all the Russians!
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