Why Democrats Should Be Thankful >> total national debt has risen 30 percent in the past four years

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
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http://slate.msn.com/id/2109203/

Why Democrats Should Be Thankful
At least they don't have to clean up the Bush fiscal catastrophe.
By Daniel Gross
Posted Thursday, Nov. 4, 2004, at 12:49 PM PT

On Nov. 3, as the bleary-eyed nation returned to work, the Treasury Department announced an impending crisis. If the lame-duck Congress doesn't raise the statutory $7.384 trillion debt limit, which was intentionally breached in October, by Nov. 18, the world's greatest power will run out of cash.

Congress, with the White House's blessing, left town before the election without dealing with the debt limits?but not before passing an appalling, special-interest-written, corporate tax bill that will deprive the government of more than $100 billion in future revenues. That double irresponsibility?the lousy tax bill and the ignored debt limit?was a fitting end to the past four years of essentially one-party rule.

The only solace for sullen Democrats is that now Republicans might have to clean up their own fiscal mess. The fiscal record of the past four years has been one of unmitigated?and seemingly intentional?irresponsibility. A Republican Congress working with a Republican president created the massive new Medicare prescription-drug entitlement, passed a new, subsidy-crammed farm bill, committed hundreds of billions of dollars to war efforts, and loaded up on pork-barrel spending. Meanwhile, taxes were reduced?on wage earners, investors, and companies. The end result: We collected about the same amount of taxes in fiscal 2004 as we did in fiscal 1999. But we spent 34 percent more. The total national debt has risen 30 percent in the past four years. The fiscally conservative Clinton administration had committed government to restraining spending. But now a massive structural gap has opened up between the country's financial inflows and outflows. It's only the willingness of the Chinese and Japanese central banks to buy our debt that keeps us afloat.

Freed of the need to run for re-election, will Bush act more fiscally responsible in a second term? Wishful thinking. This crowd literally doesn't have a clue when it comes to fiscal matters. Bush actually believes he has restrained Congressional spending, Cheney believes deficits don't matter, and most members of the Bush economic team can't?or won't?speak truth publicly. As for Congress, when it comes to managing the nation's fiscal affairs, House Majority Leader Dennis Hastert is a pretty good wrestling coach, and Senate Majority Leader William Frist is a pretty good doctor.

And so, while the moral-values crowd may have won, the fiscal orgy in Washington is sure to continue. Given Bush's mandate and his stated desire to fix the Alternative Minimum Tax (a huge tax reduction), make the temporary tax cuts permanent (ditto), and transform Social Seucrity (massive borrowing), his pledge to halve the deficit by 2009 is absurd.
 

jjzelinski

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2004
3,750
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You assume that it won't be there for a challenger in '08, only unimaginably larger. Can you imagine what our fiscal situation would be like if Bush Inc. decided to engange in another war or two? Fiscal martial law, that's what it would be.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
MARTIAL LAW IS COMING soon.. believe it..

They cannot run the Govt at this debt level any longer - you would think everyone in the white house was doing cocaine the way they spend money
 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
2,825
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Originally posted by: dahunan
MARTIAL LAW IS COMING soon.. believe it..

They cannot run the Govt at this debt level any longer - you would think everyone in the white house was doing cocaine the way they spend money

Something needs to be done. And you voted for the idiot that brought you into this **** in the first place...

[edit]
Edited to make atleast some kind of sense. It's 12pm and i'm still awake, i must sleep soon!
 

gutharius

Golden Member
May 26, 2004
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Trust me we will. I really fear Bush will not be able to do anything about the debt as he is so resigned to not repealling his tax cuts for the wealthy.
 

gutharius

Golden Member
May 26, 2004
1,965
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Originally posted by: dahunan
http://slate.msn.com/id/2109203/
And so, while the moral-values crowd may have won, the fiscal orgy in Washington is sure to continue. Given Bush's mandate and his stated desire to fix the Alternative Minimum Tax (a huge tax reduction), make the temporary tax cuts permanent (ditto), and transform Social Seucrity (massive borrowing), his pledge to halve the deficit by 2009 is absurd.

See that is the problem. We don't need to jjust halve the deficit we need to ELIMINATE IT. We as a nation are currently a debtors nation and this cannot and must not continue. Even if Bush is success full in reducing the Deficit we as a nation will still have to borrow to cover the shortfalls in our budget. Which still leaves us going further and further into debt.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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Even the Salon article misses the whole point- the situation is quite intentional. As George Akerlof has pointed out, repeatedly, it's a form of looting, the greatest transfer of wealth to the financial elite ever attempted. Before the Repubs are done, it won't matter who's in office, they'll all be forced to dance to the tune set by our creditors. It's phase one of the "starve the beast" scenario- lure the beast into an inescapable situation, a hole so deep it can't escape...

The pissant middle class taxcuts enacted over the last 4 years are just bait, an exploitation of greed and gullibility.
 

smashp

Platinum Member
Aug 30, 2003
2,443
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Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Even the Salon article misses the whole point- the situation is quite intentional. As George Akerlof has pointed out, repeatedly, it's a form of looting, the greatest transfer of wealth to the financial elite ever attempted. Before the Repubs are done, it won't matter who's in office, they'll all be forced to dance to the tune set by our creditors. It's phase one of the "starve the beast" scenario- lure the beast into an inescapable situation, a hole so deep it can't escape...

The pissant middle class taxcuts enacted over the last 4 years are just bait, an exploitation of greed and gullibility.

correct, the wealthy are raping the system. and the Republicans are allowing it to happen, in fact encouraging it.. They are using the government as a gigantic mechanizm of Wealth redistribution to further heir consolidation Power. The Elite see the future of of renewable-free energy on the horizon. Since our economy lives off of metered non renewable energy sources, the introduction of Any alternative energy source that removes the need for Fossil fuel would spell great finacial doom for this country. Full colapse of the dollar, the markets, and foreign investments. The Debt is being used right now to consolidate wealth . That consolidated wealth will be in things that will survive the colapse, gold, diamonds, land.

it sounds rather cospiratorial but, Think what would happen if a renewable enery source was invented that could be used to power a home, a car, a factory that was cheap to produce and their was to way to Meter the energy .



then think about what would happen to the energy companies and all the money they would lose just on infrastructure alone.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
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Lets bring ourselves back to reality here.

1. Clinton raised the nation debt by 20%
2. Bush raised it by 16%, not 30%.
3. What would Kerry have done to change the situation? Raise taxes on the top 1%? Laughable.

Bush has his chance over the next 4 years to fix the situation. I have a feeling if he doesnt tackle it by 06 there may be problems. If he doesnt tackle it by 08 the republicans will have major problems.

But I have confidence he will address the situation. Even if he doesnt create a surplus. Getting the debt to raise at the rate of inflation would be good enough for me at this point.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Well we cant simply stop. Imagine us stopping in 1943 because it cost too much?

So we need to curtail spending and let tax revenues catchup.

The only time I can remember a surplus over the past 60 years is when a republican controlled senate and house passed bills.

Bush has the power, now he better use it.

 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
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0
Well we saw what he did with a Rep. controlled Congress in the last term. Things don't look good unless he can do a complete 180. He has to learn to utilize the power of the veto and to stop spending money so recklessly. As an American, I hope he can do these things, but once again it doesn't look likely.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,751
595
126
I can't believe people as a whole seem so unconcerned about the national debt. Sure, they get a little more money now but sooner or later this will come back to bite them in the ass.

Well, at least those queers can't go around marrying eachother no more. :roll:
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: Genx87
Lets bring ourselves back to reality here.

1. Clinton raised the nation debt by 20%
2. Bush raised it by 16%, not 30%.
3. What would Kerry have done to change the situation? Raise taxes on the top 1%? Laughable.

Bush has his chance over the next 4 years to fix the situation. I have a feeling if he doesnt tackle it by 06 there may be problems. If he doesnt tackle it by 08 the republicans will have major problems.

But I have confidence he will address the situation. Even if he doesnt create a surplus. Getting the debt to raise at the rate of inflation would be good enough for me at this point.

5.7T when he took office
7.4T now.

1.29xxxxxxxxxxx = ~30% increase.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,197
4
76
Originally posted by: PingSpike
I can't believe people as a whole seem so unconcerned about the national debt. Sure, they get a little more money now but sooner or later this will come back to bite them in the ass.

Well, at least those queers can't go around marrying eachother no more. :roll:

They may have conquered the world if it went on!
 

glugglug

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2002
5,340
1
81
Anyone who thinks Bush will address this is severely deluded. I'll wager that By 2008, the debt will be around 12 trillion.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
5.7T when he took office
7.4T now.

Actually looking back the numbers the op was correct. The national Debt has raised 27% under Bush.

I thought Clinton reduced the national debt

Nope

FY 1994 which is Clintons first budget.

1994:4.411 Trillion
2001:5.807 Trillion

I apologize. My first numbers were incorrect. Clinton raised the national debt by 31%.

 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
$7,429,736,227,186.31/ 101,000,000 = $73,561 per IRS filer = impossible to pay off = save every cent you got so you can afford to immigrate to a place like canada with balanced budget.
 

OS

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
15,581
1
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Originally posted by: PingSpike
I can't believe people as a whole seem so unconcerned about the national debt. Sure, they get a little more money now but sooner or later this will come back to bite them in the ass.

Well, at least those queers can't go around marrying eachother no more. :roll:

Most Americans can't even control being slaves to credit card debt themselves, let alone their government.

 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: PingSpike
I can't believe people as a whole seem so unconcerned about the national debt. Sure, they get a little more money now but sooner or later this will come back to bite them in the ass.

Well, at least those queers can't go around marrying eachother no more. :roll:

Most Americans can't even control being slaves to credit card debt themselves, let alone their government.

Most Americans, unfortunately, can file bankruptcy. The US government cannot!
 

OS

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
15,581
1
76
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: PingSpike
I can't believe people as a whole seem so unconcerned about the national debt. Sure, they get a little more money now but sooner or later this will come back to bite them in the ass.

Well, at least those queers can't go around marrying eachother no more. :roll:

Most Americans can't even control being slaves to credit card debt themselves, let alone their government.

Most Americans, unfortunately, can file bankruptcy. The US government cannot!

Well, the US probably could just say they're not gonna pay anyone back, but it would probably collapse the US economy and make US dollars worthless.