Why communism will never work!

[GasX]

In a VERY off topic thread in the hardware forum, someone made a backwards ass comment about communism working only in a utopian society. Let me state here why that is a fallacy.

True Communism requires that everyone work together for a common goal in order to provide for the good of the group as a whole. There is no great reward for accomplishing more or being smarter or stronger or harder working. As long as everyone's basic needs are met, the system is thought to work. This is antithetical to human nature. Humans are just too self-centered. Furthermore, one man's needs are another man's luxuries. People want different things are and have different motivation levels.

As anyone who has gone to business school can tell you Mazlow's Heirarchy (spelling?) shows that people are first motivated by their basic needs - food and shelter. When these needs are satisified, the next level of needs become issues. I forget the exact leveling of needs, but towards the top are things like emotional well being and individuality.

In short, if you are hungry you want to find a meal, you don't want to sit around and discuss why your mommy didn't hold you enough when you were a baby.

How does this relate to communism?

Communism works not in a utopian society, but in a society that is struggling to meet its most basic needs. Hungry people will work together to hunt down a wooly mammoth, but fat and happy rich people sit on their couches and care not about the homeless guy begging for food money outside. People who have their BASIC needs met no longer care about their fellow man because they no longer NEED their fellow man. Thus communism fails in an affluent society. (affluent being relative.

Capitalism is the ideal model for an affluent society. People who either have skill(s) or motivation can succeed and fulfill their higher needs. Those who aren't motivated are probably satisfied having only their basic needs met.

I am not saying that capitalism is perfect. To truly work, it relies on everyone having equal opportunity which for the most part requires a socialist government pushing money into education for the masses...

Anyway I hope you get my point and respond with inttelligent and/or humorous remarks.

 

[vi edit]

Utopian societies were formed in spite of capitalistic, greedy business owners.
They were formed by people who were sick of the poor work conditions and upside down pay scale seen the factories.

 

[RipRidah]

I would like to know what the original quote was.
Utopian is defined as "Excellent or ideal but impracticable", I can see how communism and utopian can belong in the same sentence.

 

[GasX]

If that is the definition of utopia, then I am in trouble...

Communism (to a point) is ideal and impracticable...

 

[vi edit]

definition

 

[GasX]

original thread

Pertinent quote:



<< We are reaching the critical mass of capitalism, where its model is innefficient if not regressive. Socialism is not necessarily a natural evolution of society, nor is communism by the Soviet model. True communism could only work in a utopian society, therefore its impossible to work presently. >>



In the context of the true definition of utopia, I seem to have lost my steam.

Still, since we do not and cannot live in a utopian society, much of what I said still holds true.

 

[iamwiz82]

communism is a good choice of government IF everyone trusts one another, and are willing to pull their weight. Communism would definately work on a desert island wit you and your 5 best friends, because you are all striving to survive.

 

[Czar]

This is simple, communism does not work because of human nature, because of greed.

 

[GasX]

refer back to my comments on the needs heirarchy. If you are starving, you will only care about food. On a desert island, it would probably make sense to cooperate with your fellow islanders (note - cooperative is a major socialist theme).

 

[vi edit]

Many of the communistic utopian societies the popped up from the early 1700's through the late 1800's were very small. On a small scale they worked. Maintaining order in a town of 200 is far different than running a country of 2 million.

 

[BoberFett]

Would it really work on a desert island? What if one of your friends was lazy and refused to search for food. Under communism, the person who doesn't work will still get the same share as everyone else. How long would those who spent their days hunting continue to share?

 

[GasX]

There is nothing stopping the group from kicking the lazy person out of their &quot;society&quot;. Communism is not designed to reward laziness, despite its tendenciy to seem that way.

 

[vi edit]

Bober, that's why you vote them off!

 

[BoberFett]

Then it's no longer communism. Reward based on contribution is a trait of capitalism.

 

[axelfox]

Communism only works on paper, not in reality.

 

[crystal]

What, only communist or capitalist system? Shouldn't there be more?

 

[GasX]

oligarchy, anarchy, it's all a big fat mess.

Anything that strives for equal opportunity is my ideal. Beyond that, let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Elledan]

In the Soviet Union, poverty was nearly unknown. The Government was in control. Compare that to the current situation in Rusland after the fall of the Soviet Union. Take away the foundation beneath a stable system and it will crumble like a house will crumble once the ground slides away.

Lenin was the best leader the Soviet Union has ever had. We thank the victory over Nazi Germany to Stalin.

Communism => equality
Capitalism => everyone for themselves

Since when is a society based on equality considered to be 'bad'? Don't forget that many rules, rights and laws in countries like the US, and many European countries come directly from Communism. Pure capitalism would never work, nor would pure Communism, therefore we use a mixture of Communism, Liberalism, capitalism and many others.

Although many will disagree with me, I think that it's bad that the Soviet Union collapsed. Therefore I support the Government of China and I hope that they won't mess it up, because Socialism/Communism isn't 'evil' or anything.

 

[Akaz1976]

Uptill few years ago, i was a staunch capitalist. Then i moved to canada. and it really gave me a taste of some thing different. so my renewed views are:

1. Health care service and education is a basic right and every one should have equal access regardless of contribution to society. Any sort of 2 tier system is unacceptable (strong word but thats my personal view) because it leads to affluent people (and businesses) calling for tax cuts in name of economic growth despite know that public health and health care would suffer (they dont care about public health and education services because they have private services to take care of them). Thus equal access is the key. If Mr Joe (CEO AXB Corp) knows that lower taxes would lead to him waiting 4 months for his (or his loved ones) urgent visit to the cardiologist, he will be less vocal in his call for a tax cut.

2. Natural Monopolies (like Airlines, Cable Cos, Utilities) must be regulated.

3. Govt. has no business running a business!

So essentially i am still a capitalist except where education, health care or natural monopolies are concerned. And in health care services and Education i am a communist/socialist.

Akaz

 

[BoberFett]

<< In the Soviet Union, poverty was nearly unknown >>

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Are you for real, Mr. Roboto?

 

[Turkey]

Stalin (the USSR's leader before Lenin) was directly responsible for 20 million or more deaths during his regime, ie the most brutal leader by far in the history of the world. Ask anyone who lived in Russia while it was &quot;communist&quot; and you will see that there were priveleged and elite who were more equal than the rest of society.

&quot;Therefore I support the Government of China&quot;

Are you aware of China's population control? That situation China can only be described as horrifying. First, there's the one kid limit. That's really not a problem, they have a huge population problem that needs to be dealt with. The problem is the method of abortion and the tactics used to &quot;persuade&quot; mothers to have abortions. Try reading this for a little wake-up, or just search google for &quot;china population control&quot; for a brief rundown of some of the social effects of their actions. You can also try searching on google for &quot;china human rights&quot; and read a few of those summaries. I can guarantee that you will not support the government after understanding what they are doing to their own people.

Communism isn't inherently bad or innately evil, but it's more of a breeding ground for good ideas than it is an implementable policy.

 

[wyvrn]

Uptill few years ago, i was a staunch capitalist. Then i moved to canada. and it really gave me a taste of some thing different. so my renewed views are:

1. Health care service and education is a basic right and every one should have equal access regardless of contribution to society. Any sort of 2 tier system is unacceptable (strong word but thats my personal view) because it leads to affluent people (and businesses) calling for tax cuts in name of economic growth despite know that public health and health care would suffer (they dont care about public health and education services because they have private services to take care of them). Thus equal access is the key. If Mr Joe (CEO AXB Corp) knows that lower taxes would lead to him waiting 4 months for his (or his loved ones) urgent visit to the cardiologist, he will be less vocal in his call for a tax cut.

2. Natural Monopolies (like Airlines, Cable Cos, Utilities) must be regulated.

3. Govt. has no business running a business!

So essentially i am still a capitalist except where education, health care or natural monopolies are concerned. And in health care services and Education i am a communist/socialist.

Akaz



I think that is exactly how I feel. And as for the greedy capitalist statements: Hey, if that greedy business owner did not start his business, would you have a job? Also, what is to stop you from becoming wealthy? I would love to have equality in all things, but it is not going to happen as long as lazy or unmotivated people leach off of the system. If you can stop that, then a socialist/comunist-type society might work.

 

[Kosugi]

Just to clarify somethings that people have a bit fuzzy.


The United States political/economical system is not based solely on &quot;capitalism&quot;, and for good reason.


If you had to classify the economic/political landscape of the US, it would be:

&quot;Market-Driven Democratic Socialism&quot;.

Pure capitalism is a nightmare. The system in place in Canada is even better than the system currently in place in the United States, but there are so many people who refuse to acknowledge that things could actually be better elsewhere.

It is interesting to point out to people that the US is more socialist than capitalist, and see the look on their face when it dawns on them that it is indeed true.

 

[vi edit]

<< I think that is exactly how I feel. And as for the greedy capitalist statements: Hey, if that greedy business owner did not start his business, would you have a job >>



I think this was directed at me. My comment was in light of the conditions and practices during the very start of the industrial revolution when there were no minimum wage laws, no OSHA, and no Medicare.

When the industrial revolution first started, the workers did 90% of the work, and walked away with 10% of the profits. They were more or less forced to work in the factories because it was the factories that was putting their old &quot;hand made&quot; way doing things out of business.

Communism and utopian societies were formed in reaction to the ultra liberalistic way of business that fueled the industrial revolution.

 

[eakers]

<< : Hey, if that greedy business owner did not start his business, would you have a job? >>


yeah but if that greedy business owner wasnt so greedy maybe i could be able to support myself with one job not two or be able to save enough money to go back to skool.
maybe if that greedy business owner gave a little to charity maybe the organisation wouldnt have to depend on the government so much.

i agree that communism would never work people by nature are blood sucking bugs that will do just about anything to be better than someone else.

i agree with a lot of communist theories but some are a little crazy but how could something that benefits everyone dispite their faults be bad?

*kat. <-- back and forth on the communist issue.