Of those 4 issues, for us simpletons, which are unique to the auto industry such that a majority of industries aren't facing the same issues? Seems like #2 is the only one to me. Which incidentally directly affects #1.
I know the credit market had at least something to do with it. If consumers aren't getting loans, they can't buy the cars. Thus sales are down that much more.
I am hoping for no bailout. My little brain does not see how an industry can change in 6-12 months? They just got beat by better car companies... it is not so hard to understand. Well Busch won't get it and will probably bail them out.
For all the people that will be affected, yes I feel for them. However I believe a skilled worker that made $28/hour in the auto industry should be skilled enough to adapt and succeed in a new industry.
For all the people that will be affected, yes I feel for them. However I believe a skilled worker that made $28/hour in the auto industry should be skilled enough to adapt and succeed in a new industry.
Atomic Playboy
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2007
- 16,432
- 1
- 81
I don't think why caused the automakers to almost go bankrupt. I'm thinking it must have been where.
magicrat03
Member
- Oct 20, 2005
- 86
- 2
- 71
They make $41/hr? The highest I've ever heard is around 32.25/hr (they might of had a 3% raise since then) for skilled trades workers, not production workers who generally make about 4 to 5 bucks an hour less. Skilled trades are usually outnumbered about 8 to 1. Skilled trades bosses make about 40/hr or around 10 to 15% more an hour than their highest payed employee.
When I worked there they said we cost 78/hr benefits,wages and what they paid in retiree benefits. What they never said is we made them around 200/hr in parts or cars per person on average. But when I got out the retires well outnumbered the workers 3/1 at GM. Probably less retires at Chrysler and Ford.
The auto companies downfall is a combination of things. I don't think it is just the unions, because more than just American cars are made by people in unions. I would even hazard a guess Japanese cars made in Japan are made by union employees. Germany, France, England are other good guesses for union autoworkers.
americans were clearly coerced to buy suburbans and tahoes:roll:
organized labor did hurt tier ability to adapt, but for 'huge overhead costs' is wasn't a particularly huge portion of their budget.
IMO at the ford and gm have done a pretty decent job turning around ford and gm the last few years. Can't say the same about chrysler though
and nuking gms financing.
There are a lot of unions in this country and on the planet in general, but very very few of them have as much power as the UAW does. Or if they do, they sure do squander it.
MrChad
Lifer
- Aug 22, 2001
- 13,507
- 3
- 81
There are certainly success stories, but for a long time American cars have been outperformed by their Japanese counterparts in fit and finish, reliability and performance. GM and Ford have made great strides to improve their quality over the years, but they now have an uphill battle to combat the stigma of inferior quality that has developed over the past two decades.
And while profits from trucks and large SUVs helped them get by, their reliance on those market segments resulted in huge losses when gas prices spiked and demand dried up.
Someone linked a news video in another thread, where UAW employees were getting paid $35.00/hour (I believe that was the figure) to sit in rooms and play video games and read books or whatever else they wanted to do, so they would be kept on the books as "employed."
Found another video during my scrounging, this one of an automated assembly plant that Ford has in Brazil. We will never see its like in the U.S. while the UAW is still around in a significant manner.
Mr.IncrediblyBored
Lifer
- Jun 18, 2000
- 11,197
- 769
- 126
Sales of nearly make and model in the U.S. was down nearly 40% in November. That includes Honda and Toyota.
Uncompetitive vehicles is just one of numerous reasons why the Big 3 are hurting right now. As Dullard mentioned, GM and Ford recently re-negotiated new labor contracts with the UAW (last year, I think) when the downturn in the economy started. The new contracts made huge strides in allowing GM to build small cars profitably in the U.S. The problem of course, is sales of everything is down. Especially large trucks and SUVs that the public lapped up when gas was cheap. The large vehicle market evaporated when the oil bubble peaked over the summer.
Random Variable
Lifer
- Aug 10, 2001
- 10,420
- 2
- 0
The economy crashed, no one is buying cars anymore
Shitty management, no business vision, focusing on SUV's(hummer why?) because people were buying them.
Turned around too late, they felt a crunch as suvs went out of style with gas prices so they started to try to make cars again, and by they time they got their small cars going and reliable, the economy crashed.
Shitty management, no business vision, focusing on SUV's(hummer why?) because people were buying them.
Turned around too late, they felt a crunch as suvs went out of style with gas prices so they started to try to make cars again, and by they time they got their small cars going and reliable, the economy crashed.
This. Serious problems in the economy, slow reaction to changes, and shitty timing. Of course some people just see this as an opportunity for a union busting party, instead of trying to fix the problems.
-Poorly designed cars - i.e. building Suburbans and Tahoes that nobody will buy with $4 gas
-Unions.
-Management that is not flexible/adaptable.
-Hubris.
-Unions.
-Management that is not flexible/adaptable.
-Hubris.
EKKC
Diamond Member
- May 31, 2005
- 5,895
- 0
- 0
i say let it fail. the fed needs to let this one go.
forget pride. admit that american auto industry has failed. let them file for chapter 11 or whatever and drive that stupid UAW to oblivion once and for all.
its general bad management, stupid union laws (why, in this day and age, WHY!), and refusal to compete with foreign companies that got them to this point. don't be taking my tax money to let them continue their stupid ways. at least the financial firms are going to be regulated, it will take years to turn the big 3 around, and using taxpayer money while they reorganize their business should not be one of the options
forget pride. admit that american auto industry has failed. let them file for chapter 11 or whatever and drive that stupid UAW to oblivion once and for all.
its general bad management, stupid union laws (why, in this day and age, WHY!), and refusal to compete with foreign companies that got them to this point. don't be taking my tax money to let them continue their stupid ways. at least the financial firms are going to be regulated, it will take years to turn the big 3 around, and using taxpayer money while they reorganize their business should not be one of the options
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