Why cant a pc read xbox media?

[j_j]

sorry, i figured this had to be posted, so i searched first...but...nothing...anyway:
Why cant a pc read the xbox dvds? Every review says the dvd drive and its firmware arent proprietary, so where is the problem? Is it simply that windows does not recognize the files or format? Or is there some sort of encryption? Does my xbox have a boot image i could copy to pc to emulate it? heh...halo on gf4 @ 1024x768 + 2xAA...just thinking...anyway thanks for any help...
j_j

 

[MichaelD]

<< Is it simply that windows does not recognize the files or format? Or is there some sort of encryption? >>



Ever hear of this little box called a "Playstation?" You can't read them on a regular CDR/DVD/CDRW drive either. You can copy the data, but you can't play it or manipulate on a PC. I don't know the exact technical explanation for it, but I know what I've tried.

In order to run/play COPIED Playstation games on a Playstation, you need to solder in some kind of mod chip onto your Playstations' mobo.

There is an emulation proggy out there called BLEEM! (I'm pretty sure that's the name) that will allow you to play PS games on your PC.

Oh yeah, I know your post is about XBOX. I really have nothing to say about it...just trying to generalize as to WHY you can't play/use your XBOX games on a PC.

 

[Elledan]

A PC can not read XBox media because the data on these is written from the outside to the inside, instead of from the inside to the outside.

Some have suggested that one could copy and reverse the bitstream (after having copied it bit for bit), then burn it to a DVD and use it on the XBox after having replaced the DVD player which is currently in it with a more standard one (which reads from the inside out).
This will also allow you to read the data on your PC.

Since the XBox is merely a PC, you can replace just about any parts in it.

 

[MichaelD]

<< A PC can not read XBox media because the data on these is written from the outside to the inside, instead of from the inside to the outside.

Some have suggested that one could copy and reverse the bitstream (after having copied it bit for bit), then burn it to a DVD and use it on the XBox after having replaced the DVD player which is currently in it with a more standard one (which reads from the inside out).
This will also allow you to read the data on your PC.

Since the XBox is merely a PC, you can replace just about any parts in it. >>



Wow, I didn't know that about the XBOX (that it has a backwards-reading CDR) *shrugs* I just learned something. Too bad the XBOX hasn't really caught on...and will be a useless paperweight in about a year.

PCs are just too cheap these days and IMHO, PCs have better graphics and sound capabilites than any console.

 

[ElFenix]

gamecube reads outside in too

 

[LH]

Hasnt caught on? It still out sells the Gamecube... Well it was. Not sure now havent checked in a week or two. Its caught on much better than expected, and wont be dead in a year. And I believe its having a better than expect launch in Japan as well.

 

[Elledan]

<<

<< A PC can not read XBox media because the data on these is written from the outside to the inside, instead of from the inside to the outside.

Some have suggested that one could copy and reverse the bitstream (after having copied it bit for bit), then burn it to a DVD and use it on the XBox after having replaced the DVD player which is currently in it with a more standard one (which reads from the inside out).
This will also allow you to read the data on your PC.

Since the XBox is merely a PC, you can replace just about any parts in it. >>



Wow, I didn't know that about the XBOX (that it has a backwards-reading CDR) *shrugs* I just learned something. Too bad the XBOX hasn't really caught on...and will be a useless paperweight in about a year. >>

I don't think so. The Xbox is selling quite well in the US.

As for countries outside the US (Japan, EU etc.), I don't think that it will really catch on. First of all, the XBox will be sold for a much higher price in those countries than in the US (more like $420 instead of $299). This while the GC will be sold at a much, much lower price and the PS2 has dropped already a lot in price.



<< PCs are just too cheap these days and IMHO, PCs have better graphics and sound capabilites than any console. >>

Well, the Geforce 4 is a nice start. Check back in one year and notice that the hardware in the XBox has become obsolete compared to PCs

It would be nice to have games which use a kind of minimalistic OS, which will then boot the PC, so that the game can make direct use of the hardware, without much overhead from the OS and no overhead from other programs.

 

[ElFenix]

<< It would be nice to have games which use a kind of minimalistic OS, which will then boot the PC, so that the game can make direct use of the hardware, without much overhead from the OS and no overhead from other programs. >>

other than the advantage UMA gives the xbox thats where the rest of the huge framerate increase comes from. just moving from a pc xbox dev kit (a gf3 in pc) to xbox. 60-70% increases without any optimizations.

 

[Elledan]

<<

<< It would be nice to have games which use a kind of minimalistic OS, which will then boot the PC, so that the game can make direct use of the hardware, without much overhead from the OS and no overhead from other programs. >>

other than the advantage UMA gives the xbox thats where the rest of the huge framerate increase comes from. just moving from a pc xbox dev kit (a gf3 in pc) to xbox. 60-70% increases without any optimizations. >>


Exactly. That's why I said why it would be a nice thing

 

[ElFenix]

its inpracticable with the varying configs everyone has. but then, thats why we have xbox

 

[Elledan]

<< its inpracticable with the varying configs everyone has. but then, thats why we have xbox >>


Doh

 

[Antisocial Virge]

<< Ever hear of this little box called a "Playstation?" You can't read them on a regular CDR/DVD/CDRW drive either. You can copy the data, but you can't play it or manipulate on a PC. I don't know the exact technical explanation for it, but I know what I've tried. >>


This is actually wrong. The games can be read by a CDR, or else you wouldn't beable to directly copy them, and the files can be manipulated because some had to have patches made for them to work on modded machines so somebody must be working the data somehow. Same goes for the PS2.

I never heard about the xbox reading the disks backwards and I find that odd since it plays dvd's and music cd's. I'll have to look that up. EDIT: Guess it does.

 

[Killfile]

<< As for countries outside the US (Japan, EU etc.), I don't think that it will really catch on. First of all, the XBox will be sold for a much higher price in those countries than in the US (more like $420 instead of $299). This while the GC will be sold at a much, much lower price and the PS2 has dropped already a lot in price. >>



True enough. The List price for the Xbox here in the UK is £299 - or $420. Microsoft say this is due to "tax and shipping costs", despite Hungary, where the euro Xbox is produced, having very lox export taxes and being only about the same distance from the UK as New York is from Mexico. Yet in Japan, which has higher taxes on imported goods than the UK AND where the consoles have to be shipped from Mexico, the list price is $230.

Way to be logical Microsoft!

I just hope they realise exactly how well they're going to do against the Gamecube, which is priced at £150, or $210. Personally, I'll be spending my £299 on a game cube, 3 games, an extra controller and a memory card ...

 

[Nefrodite]

don't you need more then one memory card since they are so pathetically small? games use a buncha slots. gamecube has the hidden costs

 

[AndyCunningham]

Now I've seen PS2s at 'half price' though since you have to buy 5 games with them, then it's not a convincing pricing! But still, for a total of £300, the price of the X-Box you can get a PS2 with 5 games and accessories. Like Killfile said, the same is true of the GameCube.

The GameCube is also small. While I was in Dixons I saw a couple of kids playing with the X-Box there. One of them commented it was huge, and no one would buy one. An advantage of consoles IMO is that you can take them round to a mates house for multiplayer games. The X-Box has it's internet functions for multiplayer, but this is nowhere near as good as playing against people in the same room. It's just too big for carting around easily, but the GameCube was designed to be portable.

 

[Athlon4all]

Think of it like this. The Xbox DVD uses NTFS file system and because Windows 9x can't read NTFS, you can't read anything on the disc. I'm not saying Xbox uses NTFS, but it uses a Propriarity file system which no OS can read except for the Xbox's.

 

[Mavrick007]

You can get an Xbox though for $299 US so how much does the GF4 TI4600 or even the TI4400 cost again? ALOT more, like $400 and $300 respectively.
You can get a whole Xbox system which has video, sound, hard drive, controllers and cables to hook up your system for less than the price of the GF4 card.
I don't get the pricing strategy on all of this except that they can charge what they want and people will still buy into it.

They have to make it so that a PC can't read the media cause otherwise people would just burn it and use it in their pc instead of buying an Xbox. Like the Dreamcast couldn't read the 3rd track in cdrs, Sony's proprietary media coding with country codes, and other ones like this. If ever an emulator does come out that will work on Xbox media, you can be sure that you will need a very powerful machine to run the programs. Just like with Bleem or Virtual Game Station, Sony games worked on a very slower PSX machine but took a pretty good PC to run the emulator properly.

 

[Elledan]

<< If ever an emulator does come out that will work on Xbox media, you can be sure that you will need a very powerful machine to run the programs. Just like with Bleem or Virtual Game Station, Sony games worked on a very slower PSX machine but took a pretty good PC to run the emulator properly. >>


Not true. Since the XBox uses an x86 architecture, no emulator is needed, only a kind of layer between the actual system and the XBox software, which translates the systemcalls from the software to systemcalls the system can work with. Much like WINE.

With a 1.x GHz PC being relatively cheap nowadays, many PCs can easily run XBox games. The only thing which has to be done before the translation layer can be programmed is reverse engineering of the changes made in the XBox, which make it slightly different from a standard (x86) PC (BIOS, FS etc.).