Why California needs Proposition 8..........

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winnar111

Banned
Mar 10, 2008
2,847
0
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: winnar111
It's a shame the idiots from 2000 didn't make it an amendment then, so these asshat judges could go STFU.
Crap, yet again the irony of the week award goes out on the first day, Sunday.

You calling anyone an asshat, much less those courageous and principled justices?
Courageous and principled for selling out to a special interest over a sizable majority?

At least they'll look like fools in 2 weeks.
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
33,854
958
126
Originally posted by: winnar111
Courageous and principled for selling out to a special interest over a sizable majority?
It wasn't too long ago that a sizeable majority thought that certain people were property and not human beings. Sometimes the majority is wrong.
 

Rangoric

Senior member
Apr 5, 2006
532
0
71
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: winnar111
It's a shame the idiots from 2000 didn't make it an amendment then, so these asshat judges could go STFU.
Crap, yet again the irony of the week award goes out on the first day, Sunday.

You calling anyone an asshat, much less those courageous and principled justices?
Courageous and principled for selling out to a special interest over a sizable majority?

At least they'll look like fools in 2 weeks.
The Majority is not always right.

To think that it is always right is to actually declare China ruler of the world and that everything they do is right.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
76,513
31,919
136
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: winnar111
It's a shame the idiots from 2000 didn't make it an amendment then, so these asshat judges could go STFU.
Crap, yet again the irony of the week award goes out on the first day, Sunday.

You calling anyone an asshat, much less those courageous and principled justices?
Courageous and principled for selling out to a special interest over a sizable majority?

At least they'll look like fools in 2 weeks.
When are people going to get it through their heads that Constitutional rights are not subject to a majority vote? If a judge finds that something violates the constitution, he is not only supposed to strike it down, but he is REQUIRED to do so.

Prop 8 will hopefully go down in defeat, as it will just be looked upon as a black mark on California's history in years to come. Even if it doesn't though, it won't matter. Gay marriage will be legal in America sometime in the relatively near future, the only question is when. Everyone knows this, it's just some people won't admit it to themselves.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
no on 8. the state can't discriminate period. what is next? target people through religious association?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
69,050
4,813
126
Originally posted by: seemingly random
Originally posted by: Chaotic42
Let's just get rid of any kind of legal definition of marriage. That way it will stay a religious matter where it belongs.
But anymore it's just a legal contract which most renege on anyway.

I think just the opposite. The religion should be removed and along with it, the superstition and supernatural.
Oh man, you are just like the bigots who want to take gay people's right to marry away. Who the hell are you to suggest we enforce on others our own stupid opinions. You are the opposite side of the coin of being burned at the stake. A lot of those superstitious supernaturalists you ridicule are better people than you'll ever be. They aren't all hate filled imbecilic bigots. Millions of them understand the core message of their religion is love. And gays are often deeply religious too.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
69,050
4,813
126
Originally posted by: magomago
no on 8. the state can't discriminate period. what is next? target people through religious association?
These idiots are begging for a Constitutional amendment to ban religion.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: magomago
no on 8. the state can't discriminate period. what is next? target people through religious association?
These idiots are begging for a Constitutional amendment to ban religion.
I think they or the supporters of this kind of ummmmm protectionism wish to have an Amendment listing the approved religions...


But, It is all about separate is NOT equal... not in this nor in anything. Each person has the right to get 'married'. That is where it all begins... and ends..

 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
346
126
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: winnar111
It's a shame the idiots from 2000 didn't make it an amendment then, so these asshat judges could go STFU.
Crap, yet again the irony of the week award goes out on the first day, Sunday.

You calling anyone an asshat, much less those courageous and principled justices?
Courageous and principled for selling out to a special interest over a sizable majority?

At least they'll look like fools in 2 weeks.
You don't understand anything about principles, so the point is lost on you.

Who did the *Republicans* who decided this 'sell out to'? They don't get anything from the gay population. They're justices. They hurt themselves if anything with their allies.

What they did was to apply the constitution against their own political orientation and defend the few against the many, which is the height of what the court should do.

You continue to fail to understand the concept of the constitutional individual right. It's not based on popular approval of your free speech, of your religion. It's an individual right.

And the polls all say you're wrong about the result of the upcoming election.

Thank goodness the bigots are now a minority. You are an immoral person as well.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
346
126
Originally posted by: eskimospy Gay marriage will be legal in America sometime in the relatively near future, the only question is when. Everyone knows this, it's just some people won't admit it to themselves.
I sadly disagree with your prediction. I agree public sentiment will likely shift towards gay marriage in many areas, but that's not enough to change the law.

I think the best to hope for is a repeal of DOMA, the Discrimination On Marriage Act (my definition), and a minority of states legalizing gay marriage within many years.

Hopefully, more would be possible, but a Supreme Court decision based on Equal Rights to suddenly legalize it like they did in the Loving decision on interracial marriage seems unlikely to me. A federal policy ordering states to recognize gay marriage seems unlikely as well. I don't rule them out, but put the odds as pretty poor.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
There is no evidence of multiple things anti-gay people spout:

1) There has been no casual effect shown that legalizing same sex marriage will increase divorce and/or out-of-wedlock births. None. Please provide a link to research stating otherwise so that it may be roundly debunked. Otherwise, you're just not convincing anyone. In fact, polls show you're going to be gravely disappointed in 16 days.

2) There has been no proof shown that gay couples are less capable of raising children than straight couples. In fact, it has been just the opposite (slightly).

If you think there has been sufficient evidence to prove either of these myths, then link it. Otherwise, GTFO because no one is buying this garbage video.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
76,513
31,919
136
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: eskimospy Gay marriage will be legal in America sometime in the relatively near future, the only question is when. Everyone knows this, it's just some people won't admit it to themselves.
I sadly disagree with your prediction. I agree public sentiment will likely shift towards gay marriage in many areas, but that's not enough to change the law.

I think the best to hope for is a repeal of DOMA, the Discrimination On Marriage Act (my definition), and a minority of states legalizing gay marriage within many years.

Hopefully, more would be possible, but a Supreme Court decision based on Equal Rights to suddenly legalize it like they did in the Loving decision on interracial marriage seems unlikely to me. A federal policy ordering states to recognize gay marriage seems unlikely as well. I don't rule them out, but put the odds as pretty poor.
Well the way I see it, DOMA won't really hold up for long. What you're going to end up with is several of the large, more liberal states with legalized gay marriage (look to New York next) and you'll have a whole bunch of other states where it's not recognized. That's going to create a huge clusterfuck when it comes to all sorts of contracts, regulations, etc between states. I imagine this will compel the federal courts to get involved sooner or later, and when they do it is quite likely gay marriage will be legalized. If not sooner, then later. I'm certain it will be in my lifetime assuming I don't get run over by a bus in the next couple of years.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
346
126
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: eskimospy Gay marriage will be legal in America sometime in the relatively near future, the only question is when. Everyone knows this, it's just some people won't admit it to themselves.
I sadly disagree with your prediction. I agree public sentiment will likely shift towards gay marriage in many areas, but that's not enough to change the law.

I think the best to hope for is a repeal of DOMA, the Discrimination On Marriage Act (my definition), and a minority of states legalizing gay marriage within many years.

Hopefully, more would be possible, but a Supreme Court decision based on Equal Rights to suddenly legalize it like they did in the Loving decision on interracial marriage seems unlikely to me. A federal policy ordering states to recognize gay marriage seems unlikely as well. I don't rule them out, but put the odds as pretty poor.
Well the way I see it, DOMA won't really hold up for long. What you're going to end up with is several of the large, more liberal states with legalized gay marriage (look to New York next) and you'll have a whole bunch of other states where it's not recognized. That's going to create a huge clusterfuck when it comes to all sorts of contracts, regulations, etc between states. I imagine this will compel the federal courts to get involved sooner or later, and when they do it is quite likely gay marriage will be legalized. If not sooner, then later. I'm certain it will be in my lifetime assuming I don't get run over by a bus in the next couple of years.
Well, we might see action taken for the smooth operation where states have to recognize the gay marriages from other states, but that doesn't make them allow them themselves.

The trigger for every gay marriage state so far has been based on state courts interpreting the state constitutions, and that's not all that reproducible in most states.

That leaves building popular support for elections to legalize gay marriage - something that's not happened in any state yet - and is likely only in a small number.
 

Painman

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
3,805
29
86
If Social Progressivism and Conservatism were stocks that I could put real money on, I'd bet on the Progressives every time. Over the long haul, they always win.

If Conservatives had their way over the last 500 years, the Earth would still be flat, the Sun would revolve around it, and pandemics would still be Acts of God.

Some US communities, up until Loving Vs. Virginia in 1967, tried to ban interracial marriage.

We're only 41 years post decriminalization of miscegenation.

Same Shit, different group of folks who Aren't Like You.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,066
2,316
136
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: winnar111
It's a shame the idiots from 2000 didn't make it an amendment then, so these asshat judges could go STFU.
Crap, yet again the irony of the week award goes out on the first day, Sunday.

You calling anyone an asshat, much less those courageous and principled justices?
Courageous and principled for selling out to a special interest over a sizable majority?

At least they'll look like fools in 2 weeks.

Ya know it really wasn't that long ago the mixed race marrages were outlawed in some states. Would you like to go back to that? And they used some of the same aruments for that too.
 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
5,281
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: seemingly random
Originally posted by: Chaotic42
Let's just get rid of any kind of legal definition of marriage. That way it will stay a religious matter where it belongs.
But anymore it's just a legal contract which most renege on anyway.

I think just the opposite. The religion should be removed and along with it, the superstition and supernatural.
Oh man, you are just like the bigots who want to take gay people's right to marry away. Who the hell are you to suggest we enforce on others our own stupid opinions. You are the opposite side of the coin of being burned at the stake. A lot of those superstitious supernaturalists you ridicule are better people than you'll ever be. They aren't all hate filled imbecilic bigots. Millions of them understand the core message of their religion is love. And gays are often deeply religious too.
Ya think?
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,561
3
0
Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
Originally posted by: Chaotic42
Let's just get rid of any kind of legal definition of marriage. That way it will stay a religious matter where it belongs.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I've long said that marriage was a religious institution. So long as a couple can get a church to pronounce them married, the state should only be involved in issues of contract enforcement.
So basically you would be against the ban, correct?
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
0
WTF are the homophobe bigots so worried about gay people? Geez, quit trying to tell other people how to live their lives and focus on your own shortcomings.
 

retrospooty

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2002
2,031
74
86
Originally posted by: redgtxdi
http://vimeo.com/1978711 If you don't watch all of it, at least watch the first 8 minutes.

Frank Pastore has worked very hard to get the truth out to people. Now available online.

Others, including Miles McPherson (former San Diego Charger) and Tony Perkins (FRC.org) on www.yeson8.info

:thumbsup:
I want to be clear on this, just to show I have no immediate interest in the outcome... I am a straight man, with 2 kids lliving in Arizona.

VOTE NO!!!

Whyt are you afraid of what others do in their bedroom and who they decide to live with and marry?

This is America, If you dont like gay marriage, than I fully support your right to NOT marry a gay man. =) its that simple.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
40,543
19,313
136
Originally posted by: Robor
WTF are the homophobe bigots so worried about gay people? Geez, quit trying to tell other people how to live their lives and focus on your own shortcomings.
Because their religion demands that they impose their own social values on others in the name of religious freedom.

Something doesn't seem quite right about that logic though...
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
76,513
31,919
136
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: eskimospy Gay marriage will be legal in America sometime in the relatively near future, the only question is when. Everyone knows this, it's just some people won't admit it to themselves.
I sadly disagree with your prediction. I agree public sentiment will likely shift towards gay marriage in many areas, but that's not enough to change the law.

I think the best to hope for is a repeal of DOMA, the Discrimination On Marriage Act (my definition), and a minority of states legalizing gay marriage within many years.

Hopefully, more would be possible, but a Supreme Court decision based on Equal Rights to suddenly legalize it like they did in the Loving decision on interracial marriage seems unlikely to me. A federal policy ordering states to recognize gay marriage seems unlikely as well. I don't rule them out, but put the odds as pretty poor.
Well the way I see it, DOMA won't really hold up for long. What you're going to end up with is several of the large, more liberal states with legalized gay marriage (look to New York next) and you'll have a whole bunch of other states where it's not recognized. That's going to create a huge clusterfuck when it comes to all sorts of contracts, regulations, etc between states. I imagine this will compel the federal courts to get involved sooner or later, and when they do it is quite likely gay marriage will be legalized. If not sooner, then later. I'm certain it will be in my lifetime assuming I don't get run over by a bus in the next couple of years.
Well, we might see action taken for the smooth operation where states have to recognize the gay marriages from other states, but that doesn't make them allow them themselves.

The trigger for every gay marriage state so far has been based on state courts interpreting the state constitutions, and that's not all that reproducible in most states.

That leaves building popular support for elections to legalize gay marriage - something that's not happened in any state yet - and is likely only in a small number.
If that happens then it doesn't really matter anymore. If states are forced to recognize each other's gay marriages then it's over. About 99% of gay people who want to get married will be able to spring for a trip to a gay friendly state to get married in and then come back to their home state.
 

abaez

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
7,158
1
81
I just mailed out my no vote, but with the amount of money being poured in, I don't think it will be defeated. Very, very sad to think about that :(
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
19
81
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Topic Title: Why California needs Proposition 8..........
Topic Summary: ............yes, as in vote "YES" on 8.................
Thanks for the bigotry. Please FOAD! :thumbsdown: :|
Isn't Obama against gay marriage?
He purports to oppose gay marriage, though I generally only see this position articulated among people in his cohort who happen to be running for office and can't sacrifice the number of votes such support would cost them. He's a highly educated liberal with a civil rights background, so to me it just sounds like a pragmatic position on his part, just as it did for the Clintons.

Regardless, despite his publicly stated views, he is not in favor of a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, unlike his opponent.
 

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