why buy a new vid card?

[argoldst]

I was thinking about buying a 512 nvidia 7800 but then it hit me.

Why spend $650 for a vid card (hell, even $500) when you can get a next generation vid card in the xbox 360 for 499?

Wouldn't it be smarter to just buy an xbox and but the next vid card generation for the pc?

Am I missing something?

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: argoldst
I was thinking about buying a 512 nvidia 7800 but then it hit me.

Why spend $650 for a vid card (hell, even $500) when you can get a next generation vid card in the xbox 360 for 499?

Wouldn't it be smarter to just buy an xbox and but the next vid card generation for the pc?

Am I missing something?

Here, put on this fireproof suit. Trust me.

(gets out marshmallows)

Seriously, though, console gaming generally costs less overall than PC gaming -- at least if you keep your PC at the cutting edge. If you're willing to have less than the latest and greatest in your PC, the costs are more in line.

Also, the XBox360 uses a somewhat different GPU architecture than today's PC graphics cards (a lot of unified shaders, with not as many hardware texture/geometry pipes). It's too early to really say how fast its GPU will be. Of course, you don't need as fast a GPU to run games at 720p or 1080i @ 60FPS than at 1600x1200 and higher resolutions on a PC.

 

[argoldst]

I have my flame suit on so fire away.

To me, it just seems like it would be worthwhile to skip this current vid card generation and get an xbox. Then, upgrade your vid card for the pc on the next generation.

I'm not being negative on the new vid cards. They are great. But you are getting a better vid card (plus a system) in the xbox for less than you would pay for the upper end vid card now.

 

[1Dark1Sharigan1]

The reason why console gaming costs much less than PC gaming is because neither nVidia or ATI actually makes the cards, Sony & Microsoft does so they are the ones that bear most of the cost to produce whereas PC video card manufacturers have to bear most of the cost themselves, hence why we get cards costing upwards of $500-600 wheres the X360 can be had for $499 . . . (Hence profit margins for consoles goes down as more units are sold whereas profit margins PC video cards go up as more units are sold)

Also, it's up in the air how good that X360 GPU actually is, and probably isn't that much better than the current generation of cards . . .

 

[Wingznut]

It's all subjective and just depends on what games you want to play, and in what environment.

Do you want to play PGR3, PDZ, etc... Sitting on your couch (possibly w/HDTV and 5.1 DD surround sound), playing split screen, using Xbox Live, and all that goes with the 360 experience?

Or do you want to play FEAR, WoW, etc... Sitting at your desk with a higher resolution display, using a kb/mouse, and all that goes with the PC gaming experience?


They are two very different gaming experiences, and (imho) one doesn't directly replace the other.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: 1Dark1Sharigan1
The reason why console gaming costs much less than PC gaming is because neither nVidia or ATI actually makes the cards, Sony & Microsoft does so they are the ones that bear most of the cost to produce whereas PC video card manufacturers have to bear most of the cost themselves, hence why we get cards costing upwards of $500-600 wheres the X360 can be had for $499 . . .

Actually, on the (original) XBox, NVIDIA was producing the GPUs and selling them to MS. They actually got into a legal fight over it, since Microsoft wanted to negotiate a lower price after the console had been out for a few years, and NVIDIA didn't want to. On the XBox360, MS bought the GPU design from ATI, and they are manufacturing it themselves.

(Hence profit margins for consoles goes down as more units are sold whereas profit margins go up for video cards go up as more units are sold)

That makes sense only if you are selling the console at a loss (which sometimes occurs, at least early on in a console's life). Console makers get a cut of the profits from every piece of software sold for that console, which gives them a lot more pricing flexibility on the hardware than PC video card makers.

Also, it's up in the air how good that X360 GPU actually is, and probably isn't that much better than the current generation of cards . . .

It sort of depends on your definition of "better". The GPU in the XBox360 is built around running shader-heavy SM3.0 games at relatively limited resolutions and framerates. PC GPUs are built to be more general, and have to both support a lot of legacy software and be able to run at a much wider variety of resolution settings. A lot depends on how well games can take advantage of the XBox360's GPU setup. It's certainly not clear that it will be more powerful in an absolute sense than something like a 7800GTX or X1800XT, but it will probably be at least in the ballpark.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Oh nooooes! You've gone and done it now.
*Puts on asbestos armor*

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: 1Dark1Sharigan1
The reason why console gaming costs much less than PC gaming is because neither nVidia or ATI actually makes the cards, Sony & Microsoft does so they are the ones that bear most of the cost to produce whereas PC video card manufacturers have to bear most of the cost themselves, hence why we get cards costing upwards of $500-600 wheres the X360 can be had for $499 . . .

Actually, on the (original) XBox, NVIDIA was producing the GPUs and selling them to MS. They actually got into a legal fight over it, since Microsoft wanted to negotiate a lower price after the console had been out for a few years, and NVIDIA didn't want to. On the XBox360, MS bought the GPU design from ATI, and they are manufacturing it themselves.

(Hence profit margins for consoles goes down as more units are sold whereas profit margins go up for video cards go up as more units are sold)

That makes sense only if you are selling the console at a loss (which sometimes occurs, at least early on in a console's life). Console makers get a cut of the profits from every piece of software sold for that console, which gives them a lot more pricing flexibility on the hardware than PC video card makers.

Also, it's up in the air how good that X360 GPU actually is, and probably isn't that much better than the current generation of cards . . .

It sort of depends on your definition of "better". The GPU in the XBox360 is built around running shader-heavy SM3.0 games at relatively limited resolutions and framerates. PC GPUs are built to be more general, and have to both support a lot of legacy software and be able to run at a much wider variety of resolution settings. A lot depends on how well games can take advantage of the XBox360's GPU setup. It's certainly not clear that it will be more powerful in an absolute sense than something like a 7800GTX or X1800XT, but it will probably be at least in the ballpark.

They pretty much always sell at a loss, and are lucky to break even (MS and Sony that is).
There was a thing recently, can't remember where, saying words to the effect of MS hoping by the middle/end of its like MS hopes to be breaking even on hardware sales. That's breaking even, not making money.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

What if you want to play custom maps? Take the original Unreal Tournament (1999) for example. People have created literally thousands of custom maps. (That's right--you can make your very own deathmatch and capture the flag maps, etc. It's not that tough; I've released a couple.)

Can you download and play custom maps with the consoles? Can you even go online and play competitively against real humans with the consoles using programs like TeamSpeak (live voice communication)? What if you wanted to play a user-made modification like Strangelove or 4-way capture-the-flag (4 flags, 4 teams, more frags!)?

What if you also want to keep an IRC (Internet Relay Chat) window open? (Aside from it's being fun to hang out and meet other players in the online community it's very useful for organizing competitive 5-on-5 pick-up games, planning strategy before clan matches, etc., typing out the IP addresses and passwords for servers, etc.)

To me it just seems that consoles are far inferior to computers for online multiplayer gaming when you take that sort of thing into account. Can you manage over 1000 map, texture, music, and sound files on your console? (That isn't so far fetched--I probably have about 1000 of them installed right now in my UT folders.)

 

[1Dark1Sharigan1]

Originally posted by: Matthias99
Actually, on the (original) XBox, NVIDIA was producing the GPUs and selling them to MS. They actually got into a legal fight over it, since Microsoft wanted to negotiate a lower price after the console had been out for a few years, and NVIDIA didn't want to.

I was referring to the next gen consoles,

Yeah, it's hard to imagine MS not selling the X360 at loss if they are selling @ $499 . . .

 

[lifeguard1999]

Is F.E.A.R. or Doom3 or Quake4 or Half-Life2 available on the Xbox360? (Far Cry is, I know.)

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
Can you download and play custom maps with the consoles?

There have been a few games (like Timesplitters 2) that allowed custom map creation (albeit in a somewhat limited fashion). I'm not sure if any games can do so online right now, but certainly nothing is stopping it from being done.

Can you even go online and play competitively against real humans with the consoles using programs like TeamSpeak (live voice communication)?

XBox Live includes online voice communication.

What if you wanted to play a user-made modification like Strangelove or 4-way capture-the-flag (4 flags, 4 teams, more frags!)?

What if you also want to keep an IRC (Internet Relay Chat) window open?

You're kind of out of luck there. At least so far.

Can you manage over 1000 map, texture, music, and sound files on your console? (That isn't so far fetched--I probably have about 1000 of them installed right now in my UT folders.)

If a game supported custom maps/modifications, and the console had storage capabilities for it, I don't see why not.

 

[Rage187]

Originally posted by: lifeguard1999
Is F.E.A.R. or Doom3 or Quake4 or Half-Life2 available on the Xbox360? (Far Cry is, I know.)

Doom3 and HL2 are on the Xbox

Quake 4 will be on the 360

 

[Eureka]

Well, the XBOX 360 may have the next-generation video card, but its performance isn't that much better than the PC's. However, it does have one major advantage over the PC: stability. You can trust it to do its job well, but only that one job: gaming. As for the PC video card, it can do a lot better, and upgrade is much more easily. I still don't see a reason to buy the newest and best video card, but overall, the PC is much more versatile.

Norm

 

[Chacranajxy]

Originally posted by: lifeguard1999
Is F.E.A.R. or Doom3 or Quake4 or Half-Life2 available on the Xbox360? (Far Cry is, I know.)

Quake 4's coming out on the 360, but current reports from various sites have said that it doesn't look as good as on PC. Doom 3 and HL2 came out on the regular Xbox so those aren't gonna come out on the 360... FEAR... eh, who knows?

 

[IntelHydralisk]

Most people who buy the $500+ videocards are either extreme PC gamers or enthusiasts. You can't tell them to buy a console instead.

On the other hand, you can buy a $200 videocard and still play PC games... where consoles are at a flat price.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: 1Dark1Sharigan1
The reason why console gaming costs much less than PC gaming is because neither nVidia or ATI actually makes the cards, Sony & Microsoft does so they are the ones that bear most of the cost to produce whereas PC video card manufacturers have to bear most of the cost themselves, hence why we get cards costing upwards of $500-600 wheres the X360 can be had for $499 . . .

Actually, on the (original) XBox, NVIDIA was producing the GPUs and selling them to MS. They actually got into a legal fight over it, since Microsoft wanted to negotiate a lower price after the console had been out for a few years, and NVIDIA didn't want to. On the XBox360, MS bought the GPU design from ATI, and they are manufacturing it themselves.

(Hence profit margins for consoles goes down as more units are sold whereas profit margins go up for video cards go up as more units are sold)

That makes sense only if you are selling the console at a loss (which sometimes occurs, at least early on in a console's life). Console makers get a cut of the profits from every piece of software sold for that console, which gives them a lot more pricing flexibility on the hardware than PC video card makers.

Also, it's up in the air how good that X360 GPU actually is, and probably isn't that much better than the current generation of cards . . .

It sort of depends on your definition of "better". The GPU in the XBox360 is built around running shader-heavy SM3.0 games at relatively limited resolutions and framerates. PC GPUs are built to be more general, and have to both support a lot of legacy software and be able to run at a much wider variety of resolution settings. A lot depends on how well games can take advantage of the XBox360's GPU setup. It's certainly not clear that it will be more powerful in an absolute sense than something like a 7800GTX or X1800XT, but it will probably be at least in the ballpark.

They pretty much always sell at a loss, and are lucky to break even (MS and Sony that is).
There was a thing recently, can't remember where, saying words to the effect of MS hoping by the middle/end of its like MS hopes to be breaking even on hardware sales. That's breaking even, not making money.

they make their profits with games. how much did halo 2 make in the first weekend it was out? 120 some million?

 

[Lasthitlarry]

More than 300 dollars for a video card? hahahahahahaha

Sorry... I love pc games more than anything, but I just don't get why people spend that much money just so they get more than 30fps... Do they have super eyes or are their souls trapped inside their pcs?

If I were to get a video card right now, it would be the 6800GS.

 

[Demoth]

Originally posted by: Lasthitlarry
More than 300 dollars for a video card? hahahahahahaha

Sorry... I love pc games more than anything, but I just don't get why people spend that much money just so they get more than 30fps... Do they have super eyes or are their souls trapped inside their pcs?

If I were to get a video card right now, it would be the 6800GS.

The difference in FPS between a 6800GS and a 7800GT in certain high end games at 1600X1200 with eye candy on is one between unplayable juttering and buttery smooth gameplay. The cost difference is about $120. If your a person who plays a heavily graphical game at high settings, then the cost of a 2 good dinners for the difference is worth the cost, regardless of income.

Yeah, if you only play some of the titles that already give 50+ FPS at max settings on a 6600 GT and such, which many games still do, then there is little reason to spend the money.