Why aren't religious clubs on public schools a violation of church and state?

[DCal430]

At my H.S we had two Xtian Clubs, a Muslamic club, and a Jew Club. I never understood how something like this could be allowed, because they receive resources from the school like any other club. It always seemed fishy to me. Also could you imagine the uproar if someone started an atheist club, a pagan club, Wiccan club, or hell even a satanic club? Parents would be in outrage, but two Xtian, Muslamic, and a Jew club are fine.

 

[Patranus]

Is membership in the club a requirement of attending school?

Nope you say.

Well then you have your answer.

 

[dali71]

At my H.S we had two Xtian Clubs, a Muslamic club, and a Jew Club. I never understood how something like this could be allowed, because they receive resources from the school like any other club. It always seemed fishy to me. Also could you imagine the uproar if someone started an atheist club, a pagan club, Wiccan club, or hell even a satanic club? Parents would be in outrage, but two Xtian, Muslamic, and a Jew club are fine.

 

[lupi]

1 ping and 1 ping only

 

[Schadenfroh]

 

[xj0hnx]

At my H.S we had two Xtian Clubs, a Muslamic club, and a Jew Club. I never understood how something like this could be allowed, because they receive resources from the school like any other club. It always seemed fishy to me. Also could you imagine the uproar if someone started an atheist club, a pagan club, Wiccan club, or hell even a satanic club? Parents would be in outrage, but two Xtian, Muslamic, and a Jew club are fine.

I see you're still eating paint chips.

 

[DCal430]

This isn't some troll thread. I simply find it odd that schools can give resources to a religious group for a religious purpose.

 

[MovingTarget]

This isn't some troll thread. I simply find it odd that schools can give resources to a religious group for a religious purpose.

Okay, but what exactly does the school lose out on by letting these exist? Are they out any time/money/resources they otherwise wouldn't have had? I doubt that. Are they forcing anyone to participate? Nope. It seems to be that they are allowing these groups to associate of their own accord, which isn't against the constitution.

 

[MotF Bane]

This isn't some troll thread. I simply find it odd that schools can give resources to a religious group for a religious purpose.

It is a troll thread, just like every single thread you've made in P&N, and most of those you've made in OT.

 

[xj0hnx]

This isn't some troll thread. I simply find it odd that schools can give resources to a religious group for a religious purpose.

You make Anarchist420 look like a fucking genius.

 

[DrPizza]

Well, when you grow up and make it to high school, then why don't you start one of those other clubs you mentioned. Your club will have to engage in fund-raising activities, because schools don't always directly contribute money to clubs.

 

[Zebo]

You make Anarchist420 look like a fucking genius.

lol..With similar names I think they may be related.

 

[Ape]

This isn't some troll thread. I simply find it odd that schools can give resources to a religious group for a religious purpose.

Is the school forcing said religions on you? Does the school make joining those clubs mandatory?

 

[Schadenfroh]

lol..With similar names I think they may be related.

We need a Fascist440 to even things out.

 

[UberNeuman]

Also could you imagine the uproar if someone started an atheist club, a pagan club, Wiccan club, or hell even a satanic club?

So start a Atheist club or Pegan club or Wiccan club or a Satanic club. Fuck the uproar - do it.

/better yet, start a Atheist Pegan Wiccan Satanic Club - include everyone one in the club...

M. I C. (be seeing you in hell) K. E. Y. (why? because we love you) M. O. U. S. E.

\it's a club, not an indoctrination...
\\don't like the club, don't join it....

 

[DCal430]

Is the school forcing said religions on you? Does the school make joining those clubs mandatory?

Yes they did force it on us, because these clubs gave presentations during school assembly. I remember during the multiultural assembly the Muslim Student Union read versus from the Quran in arabic. During the Holiday assembly the Christian club read versus from the bible, told the story of the nativity, and lead a prayer. Everone was forced to listen to these things, everyone.

 

[OCGuy]

OP you can't be serious.

 

[Craig234]

It's the lack of preference for a religion, primarily IMO. If they did it for one and not others, that'd be a problem.

The constitutional limit is against the 'establishment of a state religion', not against letting any religion that wants to use some public resources.

There is a line between, say, a Christmas Carol, and a recruitment speech. But the constitutional limits are not that large.

 

[DCal430]

It's the lack of preference for a religion, primarily IMO. If they did it for one and not others, that'd be a problem.

The constitutional limit is against the 'establishment of a state religion', not against letting any religion that wants to use some public resources.

I don't know what their presentations were you refer to, but I doubt they were religious prosletyzing, even it if were non-discriminatory.

As much as some on the right here would love that sort of thing, and calls it a 'war on religion' if they aren't allowed to.

It does get more dicey when they're reading from religious texts, but it's not necessarily a constitutional issue.

I would prefer a somewhat short leash, though as a policy matter.

I would call reading verses from holy books and prayer prosletyzing.

 

[nonlnear]

I would reading books from holy books and prayer prosletyzing.

I recommend you scale it back to first grade readers first, and work your way up to polysyllabic words and basic grammar. After a few years of that you might start to learn about rhetorical and literary constructs. Then you can start forming opinions about holy books, politics, and such.

 

[Ape]

Yes they did force it on us, because these clubs gave presentations during school assembly. I remember during the multiultural assembly the Muslim Student Union read versus from the Quran in arabic. During the Holiday assembly the Christian club read versus from the bible, told the story of the nativity, and lead a prayer. Everone was forced to listen to these things, everyone.

So you are saying that those clubs were at the assembly for the sole purpose of converting you to their religion and not for some sort of cultural awareness?

Dude quit being so paranoid. Unless you are constantly being force fed this against your will a single assembly isn't the same as the federal government making a specific the faith of the state.

 

[Bignate603]

Yes they did force it on us, because these clubs gave presentations during school assembly. I remember during the multiultural assembly the Muslim Student Union read versus from the Quran in arabic. During the Holiday assembly the Christian club read versus from the bible, told the story of the nativity, and lead a prayer. Everone was forced to listen to these things, everyone.

So your school made you learn about other people's beliefs and point of view? The horror!!!

Sorry, but it sounds like your school is doing a decent job getting its students to become more familiar with other groups. If you aren't familiar with the beliefs of other people you'll never understand how they act. Learning about other groups doesn't equal being forced to change your beliefs to align with theirs.

 

[OCGuy]

OP I am an athiest and I dont enjoy cock. But if a xtian spoke at an assembly I wouldnt have converted, and if two guys went to prom together I wouldnt have suddenly had the urge to blow someone.

 

[shira]

Case 1: At graduation ceremonies, the Principal introduces the valedictorian of the class and says the the valedictorian will give a speech. The valedictorian asks everyone to join him in a moment of prayer, and then proceeds to make an invocation to Jesus while the principal and many/most of the teachers and students obviously join in. At the completion of the prayer, almost the entire group says "Amen."

Case 2: At a school assembly, the Principal introduces a speaker for the Jesus club and says that the speaker will tell everyone about the activities of the club. As part of his presentation, the speaker gives an example of a prayer to Jesus. No one is asked to join in, and the Principal, teachers, and students merely watch the presentation. The speaker says "Amen" by himself.

If you can't understand the clear distinction between Case 1 and Case 2, get therapy.

 

[Craig234]

I would call reading verses from holy books and prayer prosletyzing.

There's a fine line sometimes, but a point I'm making is that there is a difference between 'the line we'd like drawn as policy' and 'the line the constitution draws'.