Why arent homes built with fire extinguishing (supression) systems

MX2

Lifer
Apr 11, 2004
18,651
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I don't get it.

Yeah, water damage, but that cant be worse than fire damage. At least the structure and most likely the occupants would survive.
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,084
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81
fobot.com
not cost effective. house fires are not that common, overall, i think

but if you want to pay an extra 20-30% or whatever for one, i am sure you can get it done
 

Evadman

Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Feb 18, 2001
30,990
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some are, my buddies has a sprinkler system. They are just not required.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
65,907
14,308
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That would add several thousand $$$ to the cost of a new home. PLUS, the chance of one going off accidentally (yes, it happens) or being set off by kids woulld really cause a lot of water damage. Nice idea in principle, but in actual practice, costs would be too high to require it by law...
 

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
91
there is no such thing as a fire extinguishing system.

there are fire supression systems, which allow for 15 more minutes to escape, but if the fire starts, and gets hot enough to melt a sprinkler head (temps vary depending upon head), the house will burn.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,985
6,298
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A lot of new homes have sprinklers, in some citys they are required. The cost has come down a lot over the last few years, around here it adds about 3% to construction costs.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,985
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Originally posted by: AgentJean
Halon has the tendency to extinguish humans along with fires. Not good.

News to me. I thought Halon was pretty much harmless?
 

EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
15,670
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Originally posted by: Greenman
Originally posted by: AgentJean
Halon has the tendency to extinguish humans along with fires. Not good.

News to me. I thought Halon was pretty much harmless?

Halon systems operate by replacing the oxygen as the fire burns. As such, it needs to be in a sealed environment to be 100% effective. And these sealed environments typically tend to be server closets - with one door. If you can't use that door, and the Halon system engages, you're F'd. It's unlikely, but it has happened.
 

GeekDrew

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2000
9,099
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Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: Greenman
Originally posted by: AgentJean
Halon has the tendency to extinguish humans along with fires. Not good.

News to me. I thought Halon was pretty much harmless?

Suffocation I'm sure.

IIRC, Halon 1211 (generally not used any more) is more lethal than Halon 1301... though I can't remember why. I know that I've been in many data centers with "EMERGENCY FIRE SUPRESSION ABORT" buttons (along with signs indicating that without breathing apparatus, suppression should be aborted).
 

wfbberzerker

Lifer
Apr 12, 2001
10,423
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also, i think the fact that homes are made of wood and not concrete could have something to do with it. i'd think a sprinkler would absolutely wreak havoc on a house.
 

FallenHero

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2006
5,659
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Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
there is no such thing as a fire extinguishing system.

there are fire supression systems, which allow for 15 more minutes to escape, but if the fire starts, and gets hot enough to melt a sprinkler head (temps vary depending upon head), the house will burn.

Actually, a fair amount of fires are put out by sprinkler heads. The ones that spread are usually do to the malfunction of the system itself.
 

mchammer

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2000
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Yea they should put them in new houses. It would be cheaper too if everyone or more people did it. Then around the house they could hide some drains incase one goes off, that would help in case a plumbing fixture broke as well. I bet insurance companies would love it.
 

EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
15,670
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Originally posted by: GeekDrew
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: Greenman
Originally posted by: AgentJean
Halon has the tendency to extinguish humans along with fires. Not good.

News to me. I thought Halon was pretty much harmless?

Suffocation I'm sure.

IIRC, Halon 1211 (generally not used any more) is more lethal than Halon 1301... though I can't remember why. I know that I've been in many data centers with "EMERGENCY FIRE SUPRESSION ABORT" buttons (along with signs indicating that without breathing apparatus, suppression should be aborted).

Exactly. Halon systems, whether 1211 or 1301, are absolutely and totally not human-compatible. But they're harmless to electronics - which is why you find them most often in electronics-rich environments where people very rarely stray. Whereas, water-based systems are very NOT friendly to electronics, but harmless to humans.
 

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
91
Originally posted by: FallenHero
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
there is no such thing as a fire extinguishing system.

there are fire supression systems, which allow for 15 more minutes to escape, but if the fire starts, and gets hot enough to melt a sprinkler head (temps vary depending upon head), the house will burn.

Actually, a fair amount of fires are put out by sprinkler heads. The ones that spread are usually do to the malfunction of the system itself.

this is not what i have been told/read/heard.

typically, if the firesprinkler goes off, and it puts out the fire, your gunna be paying a crapload for water damage anyways. however, if a fire starts say, in a wall, and begins to spread (like a LOT of house fires) in order to open a sprinkler head, it will have to have busted through the wall, and melted it. by the time it is through the wall, its basically to late, and all it will do is allow the extra 15 minutes to escape before a majority of the house is on fire.
 

Pantoot

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2002
1,764
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Originally posted by: BoomerD
That would add several thousand $$$ to the cost of a new home. PLUS, the chance of one going off accidentally (yes, it happens) or being set off by kids woulld really cause a lot of water damage. Nice idea in principle, but in actual practice, costs would be too high to require it by law...

My city required our house to have them. All new builds over 3k sqft have to have sprinklers.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Exactly. Halon systems, whether 1211 or 1301, are absolutely and totally not human-compatible. But they're harmless to electronics - which is why you find them most often in electronics-rich environments where people very rarely stray. Whereas, water-based systems are very NOT friendly to electronics, but harmless to humans.

So is it pure suffocation, or poison?:confused:
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
65,907
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http://erd.dli.mt.gov/safetyhealth/brochures/halon.pdf

Halon hazards include:
! Asphyxiation - Although unlikely to occur during use of a single fire extinguishing unit, exposure
to high concentrations of halon gas may cause an oxygen deficient atmosphere.
! Flying Projectile - If the cylinder is mishandled and the pressure is released in an uncontrolled
manner, the cylinder can act as a projectile causing serious injury or death to people working with
the cylinder or bystanders in the vicinity.
! Cold Temperature - Direct contact with the vaporizing liquid being discharged will have a strong
chilling effect and can cause frostbite burns to the skin.
! Central Nervous System (CNS) - Inhaling high concentrations of halon gas can cause dizziness,
tingling in extremities, and in severe cases, unconsciousness.
! Cardiovascular Effect - Exposure can cause cardiac sensitization. Cardiac sensitization occurs
when a chemical causes an increased sensitivity of the heart to adrenaline producing sudden lifethreatening,
irregular heartbeats and even heart attack, in severe cases.
! Irritation of exposed skin and eyes may also result from exposures to halon.
Decomposition products of halon can be very toxic. The decomposition takes place when halon is exposed
to a flame or to a hot surface at or above 900 degrees F. During decomposition the atoms of the halon
molecule breakdown and can create high concentrations of toxic gases. Before entering into an area where a large fire was extinguished, toxic atmosphere tests should be done to ensure safe entry and occupancy of the area.
By itself halon present a low hazard but when combined with out hazardous situation it can be a major
problem. If workers must enter into a space with limited ventilation the atmosphere must be tested for
oxygen levels. If the oxygen level is below 19.5% than the space is considered oxygen deficient and a selfcontained
breathing apparatus (SCBA) is required.


BTW, Halon, being a CFC is being phased out, and hasn't been manufactured since 1994. It is still legal to use and recharge Halon systems, but once the current stocks are gone, they're gone. It's still legal to evacuate and recycle "used" halon, and has become a fairly large industry.
 

Itchrelief

Golden Member
Dec 20, 2005
1,398
0
71
Originally posted by: Pantoot
Originally posted by: BoomerD
That would add several thousand $$$ to the cost of a new home. PLUS, the chance of one going off accidentally (yes, it happens) or being set off by kids woulld really cause a lot of water damage. Nice idea in principle, but in actual practice, costs would be too high to require it by law...

My city required our house to have them. All new builds over 3k sqft have to have sprinklers.

I guess your area has a lot of 2999.9 sq ft houses? With big garages?
 

dartworth

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
15,200
10
81
I've been thinking of adding a few recessed sprinkler heads over all the egresses in our home. I need to contact our insurance company to see how it will effect our rates...
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,118
18,646
146
I know most new homes in LA and Ventura counties in CA have to have them.