Why are you a Democrat or Republican? {poll}

[elanarchist]

I'd like to here from both sides. I'm curious to see what makes one a Democrat or Republican, especially in this crucially important election year. Let me get the ball rolling:

I'm a Democrat because:

• President Bush lied about Saddham's WMD. Furthermore, he took advantage of the fact that even though Saddham had nothing to do with the atrocities of 9/11, many Americans mistakenly thought otherwise. He knew that he could not get enough support from the American people any other way. Yet, many do not seem to care that hundreds of American soldiers have died as a result of these lies.
• The PATRIOT ACT. America is the freest society in the world! We should be proud of our unique position. Why then do many Americans support suspending many of our freedoms which will do more to create a police state than fight terrorism?
• Megacorporations. Republicans are generally more accepting of ever growing corporate power. Consider how the Microsoft case was handled with a slap in the wrist by the current adminstration yet was vigoursly pursued in the Clinton era. Many believe megacorporations are a natural step, neccessary for greater efficiency. Yet, how does a consumer benfit from having only three banks left to choose from instead of fifteen? With less choice and higher obstacles to the formation of new companies, the megacorporation has a freer hand to set prices as high as the market will bear.
• It saddens me that in the richest country in the world, 15 million children live in poverty. I believe that its a government's duty to help provide for the less fortunate in cases like this. Yes, I agree that in an ideal world, every parent would work hard enough to earn enough to feed their family. Yet, this does not explain how the working-poor can work two jobs 60 hours a week at minumum wage yet still struggle to emerge from poverty.
• Universal health care. Free markets, while great in theory, do not apply to every circumstance. Health care is a prime example. Its a basic human right to have access to health care, yet 43 million can not afford it. Why?

Basically, my belief is that the Democratic party promotes progress through humanitarian measures, while the Republicans are the party representing the extremely wealthy and their interests, in addition to pandering to socially conservative, religious Whites by trying to appear as the party more in touch with Christian values. This is just my opinion, so why are you a Democrat or Republican?

 

[Perknose]

If you would list "registered independent", then I could participate.

I can also tell you right now, you're going to have to expand your choices well beyond just that in order to accomodate everyone here . . . just a head's up. For instance, there is our import of the English Monster Raving Loony Party.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: elanarchist

Basically, my belief is that the Democratic party promotes progress through humanitarian measures, while the Republicans are the party representing the extremely wealthy and their interests, in addition to pandering to socially conservative, religious Whites by trying to appear as the party more in touch with Christian values. This is just my opinion, so why are you a Democrat or Republican?

What makes the world go round?

What is more important, Humanitarian measures, or the wealth and the interest of the wealth
that allow for the humanitarian measures.

What come first, the chicken or the egg or the chicken or the egg.......?

Do Political parties in this country exist to support societal evolution and to keep
one man from having to much control over another man?

What was the question???

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Perknose
If you would list "registered independent", then I could participate.

q]

Registered independent?? Really

:Q :Q :Q

 

[heartsurgeon]

how does that quote go?

if your not a Democrat by your 20's, you have no heart..
if your not a Republican by your 40's, you have no brain...

that pretty much sums it up for me...Republican (at leart until I reach Medicare age!!!! HAHAHAHAHA)

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Perknose If you would list "registered independent", then I could participate. q] Registered independent?? Really :Q :Q :Q

Yup . . . despite my life long love affair with Dick Gephardt.

The steep quarterly dues and the endless mandatory meetings are a biatch, though.

 

[klah]

Universal health care. Free markets, while great in theory, do not apply to every circumstance. Health care is a prime example. Its a basic human right to have access to health care, yet 43 million can not afford it. Why?

They choose not to buy health insurance. 99% of US households have televisions. ~70% of people earning below $30k/yr even have cable or satellite. These people have decided that television is more important than health insurance. Since they are irresponsible I should be forced to buy them health insurance?

It saddens me that in the richest country in the world, 15 million children live in poverty. I believe that its a government's duty to help provide for the less fortunate in cases like this. Yes, I agree that in an ideal world, every parent would work hard enough to earn enough to feed their family. Yet, this does not explain how the working-poor can work two jobs 60 hours a week at minumum wage yet still struggle to emerge from poverty.

So what is the solution? Families with combined earnings under $35k/yr already pay 0%(or less) federal income tax with the EITC and CTC.


Would giving more welfare to irresponsible parents solve the problem?

For 80 years, from 1880 to 1960, the proportion of black children living with a single parent held steady around 30 percent, according to the new research by the University of Minnesota. During the same time, the proportion of white children living with one parent stayed at about 10 percent. But in recent years, those figures have climbed - to 63 percent for black children and 19 percent for white.

Seems to make it worse.

The PATRIOT ACT. America is the freest society in the world! We should be proud of our unique position. Why then do many Americans support suspending many of our freedoms which will do more to create a police state than fight terrorism?

You mean the bill that passed the Senate 98-1? How is this a R vs. D issue?

Megacorporations. Republicans are generally more accepting of ever growing corporate power.

And Dems have to be loyal to trial lawyers. If you donate $$millions someone will be loyal to you.

 

[conjur]

As good a thread as any to poke this into:

In recent decades the most common use of the term liberal in the United States has been greatly at variance from the use of the term in the rest of the world, and with the historical meaning of the word in the USA through the mid 20th century.

The term is sometimes used as derogatory or politically undermining label. It can imply an overly free-spirited, unaccountable, and compromised character (a libertine), or someone in favor of vast and needless government intrusion into peoples lives (see Big government).

American conservatives in recent years, often those of the Republican Party, sometimes use liberal as a subversive adjective for anyone who is a member of or supports any policy of the Democratic Party.

Some think that conservatives have been successful in undermining progressives as "liberals", by deliberate public relations campaigns, through repeated use of the word in ways that associate it with irresponsibility. (See, for example, Limousine liberal; another commonly-used phrase is tax-and-spend liberal.)

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
how does that quote go?

if your not a Democrat by your 20's, you have no heart..
if your not a Republican by your 40's, you have no brain...

that pretty much sums it up for me...Republican (at leart until I reach Medicare age!!!! HAHAHAHAHA)

So, you're a Republican because you misquoted some moldy platitude? Gotta love a well-informed electorate.


By the way, the most common modern credit for that "quote" is Winston Churchill who apparently did NOT say:

• If a man is not a socialist by the time he is 20, he has no heart.
  If he is not a conservative by the time he is 40, he has no brain.

Note it says "conservative", not Republican. There is a difference, especially lately.


I suppose I am misunderestimating you, however. You are an educated man. I'm sure you know the Churchill attribution is merely legend. You undoubtedly meant the original. The earliest known version of this observation is attributed to mid-nineteenth century historian and statesman François Guizot:

• Not to be a republican at 20 is proof of want of heart;
  to be one at 30 is proof of want of head.

That leaves only one question. Are you a high school student, or are you a little light above the shoulders?

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: klah

Universal health care. Free markets, while great in theory, do not apply to every circumstance. Health care is a prime example. Its a basic human right to have access to health care, yet 43 million can not afford it. Why?

They choose not to buy health insurance. 99% of US households have televisions. ~70% of people earning below $30k/yr even have cable or satellite. These people have decided that television is more important than health insurance. Since they are irresponsible I should be forced to buy them health insurance? ...

What a dishonest and arrogant view of the world. Do you have any idea what health insurance costs? A typical family will pay around $800 per month if they're lucky enough to qualify for COBRA. If not, they may pay twice that. If they're unfortunate enough to have an unhealthy family member, they may not be able to get insurance at all.

One can buy a decent television for $100. That will get a family two or three days of health insurance. Woo hoo.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: conjur
As good a thread as any to poke this into:

In recent decades the most common use of the term liberal in the United States has been greatly at variance from the use of the term in the rest of the world, and with the historical meaning of the word in the USA through the mid 20th century. The term is sometimes used as derogatory or politically undermining label. It can imply an overly free-spirited, unaccountable, and compromised character (a libertine), or someone in favor of vast and needless government intrusion into peoples lives (see Big government). American conservatives in recent years, often those of the Republican Party, sometimes use liberal as a subversive adjective for anyone who is a member of or supports any policy of the Democratic Party. Some think that conservatives have been successful in undermining progressives as "liberals", by deliberate public relations campaigns, through repeated use of the word in ways that associate it with irresponsibility. (See, for example, Limousine liberal; another commonly-used phrase is tax-and-spend liberal.)

I believe in inclusion as a bedrock personal, social and political principle. I do not believe in scapegoating the weak and powerless. The term "compassion fatigue" is an obscenity and an abomination to me. When there are "winners", there are losers. In the long run, no justice means no peace, no matter who has the technological advantage..

This is a small planet. Truculent posturing is short sighted, fear based, and contains the seeds of its own demise within, for pride goeth before the fall. It has ever been so.

So, yeah, I am a liberal.

 

[wkabel23]

I would probably consider myself independent although I will vote for Kerry in the upcoming election simply because Bush is THAT bad.

I'm probably more liberal than the majority of the Democrats. The recent move to the center by Democrats is pretty sad

So why am I a liberal?

• Gay marriage: Gays should have be able to get married and have the exact same benefits as heterosexual couples. Completely disagree with a constitutional ban on gay marriage and I think that is basically using the constitution as a means of discrimination

• Environmental Issues: End the tax cuts for large SUV/Truck/Van owners and encourage the buying of smaller, more fuel efficient cars. Invest more into the research of alternate fuel sources. Protect the forests, don't drill in the ANWR, etc.

• Economic Issues: Tax cuts aren't working and they will eventually hurt us. Also, the government should SPEND LESS in certain areas .

That isn't a lof information but that should give you an idea as to why I'm liberal

It would also be nice if people stuck to the topic instead of critiquing other's responses.

 

[FrodoB]

You should start a new poll - Who really cares about YOU? Democrats - Republicans - Both - Neither party
It will give us a chance to see who's gullible.

We're all part of this game of power and must align ourselves with whom we perceive to be the lesser of the evils.

Another great poll - Politics aside, who would you rather have a beer with at a bar? Bush or Kerry
I would choose Bush. Kerry puts me to sleep.

 

[elanarchist]

Originally posted by: FrodoB
You should start a new poll - Who really cares about YOU? Democrats - Republicans - Both - Neither party
It will give us a chance to see who's gullible.

We're all part of this game of power and must align ourselves with whom we perceive to be the lesser of the evils.

Another great poll - Politics aside, who would you rather have a beer with at a bar? Bush or Kerry
I would choose Bush. Kerry puts me to sleep.

I don't care what you think of me, that's not the point of this thread. I'm genuinely curious to see why people classify themselves as a Democrat or Republican.

 

[FrodoB]

Originally posted by: elanarchist

Originally posted by: FrodoB
You should start a new poll - Who really cares about YOU? Democrats - Republicans - Both - Neither party
It will give us a chance to see who's gullible.

We're all part of this game of power and must align ourselves with whom we perceive to be the lesser of the evils.

Another great poll - Politics aside, who would you rather have a beer with at a bar? Bush or Kerry
I would choose Bush. Kerry puts me to sleep.

I don't care what you think of me, that's not the point of this thread. I'm genuinely curious to see why people classify themselves as a Democrat or Republican.

Sorry if you misunderstood... I'm not talking about you... I'm meant YOU to mean each person on a personal level. I should have typed it differently.

 

[elanarchist]

Oops, my bad Frodo, your post makes a lot more sense now.

 

[Painman]

None of the above, I don't belong to parties or wear labels. But, I do tend to vote Democratic in national elections - I'm not fond of Republican/Conservative social and foreign policy, especially as of late.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

This is just my opinion, so why are you a Democrat or Republican?

Because Rush Limbaugh told me to be a republican.

not because i understand the difference between a lie and bad information that had to be acted on because September 11th changed level of intelegence that caused information became 'actionable', or because I know the patriot act has sun-set clause that will put an end to it after only a few years, nor because increased efficient competition in the market leads to lower prices, and certainly not because i don't want America to be like Canada, ware it can take weeks to get essential medical services, services rendered to those who get them when they need them, no matter ability to pay for then, and it's not because i understand that the millions who are in poverty have better lives than the middle class in most other industrialized nations.

no, the answer people from the left like to hear from ignorant bigots like me is:

Because Rush Limbaugh told me to be a republican.

 

[BugsBunny1078]

Im a libertarian because I don't think humans should tell other humans what to do in most cases.
I think government laws should follow the ten commandments and leave the rest of it up to people to decide for themselves.
Some laws are just silly like drug laws. If a grown man wants to take health risks by smoking some marijuana then who can tell him he should be arrested for endangering himself? Makes no sense. Give people the right to live their life how they choose.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think that political party affiliation is a window into the nature of how we reacted to the tremendous evil that is the human condition. Forty or fifty thousand years or so ago, when we began to really functionally abstract ideas through language, we left the Garden of Eden and entered Hell. We learned to insult each other with words, moreover, and especially, our children. By this process everybody in the world has been made to hate him or herself as the worst thing in the world. The pain of this experience is so profound that it is deeply buried away and unavailable as conscious memory except by tremendous effort and almost always involving some kind of help. We have instead become the defense mechanism that protects us from that pain. This is our personality, our ego, the manifestation of mental disease, the thing that must die for our true self to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

But in our ignorance we either join or we rebel, and we do both compartmentally depending on the issue and our own personal history. We all have a breathing tube by which we survive and that breathing tube is our life line and the thing that's healthy in us. It is a tube that can flower.

So the younger we are the closer we are to un-perfected defense, to an ego that hasn't hardened into stone. Your true selves are capable of vast love and compassion, our true selves is the Image of God in which we were created. So depending on the amount of scar tissue there is, compassion enthusiasm and idealism are mostly for the young. They have not been yet bitten by those they try so hard to help. But we all feel like the worst in the world, and any sign of light and love, we have to destroy as fast as we can. It reminds us of ourselves as love capable children, the kind of monster that was put down. Anybody who loves is a fool because your love will be crucified. That's what Jesus came to show you. You can live only by entering onto the cross and dying there.

So we are magnetized by our traumatic past. We want to live and to love with profound and deep desperation, but we fear it with all of the fear there is. So we are left with our little tube to breath through.

So the liberal sees that it is the conservative who has ruined his life and the conservative sees that the liberal reminds him of his past. Each is a monster to the other. Each is the opposite side of the same coin, at root exactly the same.

That is why, in the end, it isn't politics that can save us, the answers are in self understanding. The truth is that there is only love and always has been. Our broken being comes from separation. When you suffer, you heal.

 

[Dedpuhl]

I am not a Democrat b/c I'm against socialism.

I am not a Republican b/c of their stance on Religion and some personal freedoms.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: klah

Universal health care. Free markets, while great in theory, do not apply to every circumstance. Health care is a prime example. Its a basic human right to have access to health care, yet 43 million can not afford it. Why?

They choose not to buy health insurance. 99% of US households have televisions. ~70% of people earning below $30k/yr even have cable or satellite. These people have decided that television is more important than health insurance. Since they are irresponsible I should be forced to buy them health insurance? ...

What a dishonest and arrogant view of the world. Do you have any idea what health insurance costs? A typical family will pay around $800 per month if they're lucky enough to qualify for COBRA. If not, they may pay twice that. If they're unfortunate enough to have an unhealthy family member, they may not be able to get insurance at all.

One can buy a decent television for $100. That will get a family two or three days of health insurance. Woo hoo.

Thats what I was going to say. What is his point? An individuals health insurance cost 350-400/mo now, for one person. A good TV set costs $100, wow 10 days. Even if they dumped the cable TV, thats about $40/mo for cable (assuming they have it)...they'd only be able to afford about 3 months for one person or half a month of health insurance for a family. That sounds really useful. I wonder why they decided to buy a TV instead?

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: klah

Universal health care. Free markets, while great in theory, do not apply to every circumstance. Health care is a prime example. Its a basic human right to have access to health care, yet 43 million can not afford it. Why?

They choose not to buy health insurance. 99% of US households have televisions. ~70% of people earning below $30k/yr even have cable or satellite. These people have decided that television is more important than health insurance. Since they are irresponsible I should be forced to buy them health insurance? ...

What a dishonest and arrogant view of the world. Do you have any idea what health insurance costs? A typical family will pay around $800 per month if they're lucky enough to qualify for COBRA. If not, they may pay twice that. If they're unfortunate enough to have an unhealthy family member, they may not be able to get insurance at all.

One can buy a decent television for $100. That will get a family two or three days of health insurance. Woo hoo.

Thats what I was going to say. What is his point? An individuals health insurance cost 350-400/mo now, for one person. A good TV set costs $100, wow 10 days. Even if they dumped the cable TV, thats about $40/mo for cable (assuming they have it)...they'd only be able to afford about 3 months for one person or half a month of health insurance for a family. That sounds really useful. I wonder why they decided to buy a TV instead?

so? you don't need medical insurance to get necessary emergency health-care, if you show up at a hospital in need of treatment they will see and treat you; sure you're going to go bankrupt from it, but that's probably a welcome reprieve from thousands in other debts.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
how does that quote go?

if your not a Democrat by your 20's, you have no heart..
if your not a Republican by your 40's, you have no brain...

that pretty much sums it up for me...Republican (at leart until I reach Medicare age!!!! HAHAHAHAHA)

Is that from Churchill? I recall his policies leaned left as he grew older, ironically...

 

[klah]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: klah

Universal health care. Free markets, while great in theory, do not apply to every circumstance. Health care is a prime example. Its a basic human right to have access to health care, yet 43 million can not afford it. Why?

They choose not to buy health insurance. 99% of US households have televisions. ~70% of people earning below $30k/yr even have cable or satellite. These people have decided that television is more important than health insurance. Since they are irresponsible I should be forced to buy them health insurance? ...

What a dishonest and arrogant view of the world. Do you have any idea what health insurance costs? A typical family will pay around $800 per month if they're lucky enough to qualify for COBRA. If not, they may pay twice that. If they're unfortunate enough to have an unhealthy family member, they may not be able to get insurance at all.
One can buy a decent television for $100. That will get a family two or three days of health insurance. Woo hoo.

All you need is catastrophic insurance. When I was an independent contractor I had to provide my own health insurance and I had catastrophic coverage from Cigna for $34/month.