Why are we still giving money to Israel?

[tec699]

US aid to Israel...

In my opinion, US aid to Israel has to stop! We can't afford to give money to Israel especially since we ourselves are in a slight depression. And there is talk that the our government might decrease the chance to get college loans even though more students then ever are in need of assistance!!! So that means our US government is ripping the US dream away from especially the inner city youth, because there is no way in hell that they can afford to go to college. They need assistance badly, but if it's not there then what are they suspossed to do? So give all the money back to the American public! Americans need the money and we deserve it. Screw Israel, and let them defend themselves!

Most Americans are not aware how much of their tax revenue our government sends to Israel. For the fiscal year ending in September 30, 1997, the U.S. has given Israel $6.72 billion: $6.194 billion falls under Israel's foreign aid allotment and $526 million comes from agencies such as the Department of Commerce, the U.S. Information Agency and the Pentagon. The $6.72 billion figure does not include loan guarantees and annual compound interest totalling $3.122 billion the U.S. pays on money borrowed to give to Israel. It does not include the cost to U.S. taxpayers of IRS tax exemptions that donors can claim when they donate money to Israeli charities. (Donors claim approximately $1 billion in Federal tax deductions annually. This ultimately costs other U.S. tax payers $280 million to $390 million.)

When grant, loans, interest and tax deductions are added together for the fiscal year ending in September 30, 1997, our special relationship with Israel cost U.S. taxpayers over $10 billion.

-Put it this way.. If an inner city youth is denied college tuition because our government cuts the aid, then don't be suprised if that individual puts a gun to your head and robs you and your family! And instead of putting blame on that child, you should blame the Israeli government. There the ones that are taking money away from us, which in turn may cause this type of violence.

My opinion might sound a bit extreme, but when someone doesn't have anything to live for, then the only outcome can be bad. And that will happen if our youth are denied a college education because we can't afford it. In 1997.. that 10 billion could have went to build new schools, to giving inner city youth a chance at college, etc...

:|

 

[Ornery]

"If an inner city youth is denied college tuition because our government cuts the aid, then don't be suprised if that individual puts a gun to your head and robs you and your family!

Yeah, that boy sounds like real college material to me!

We've been throwing money at "inner city youth" for decades. It doesn't fix the problem! The root of that problem is a whole other topic.

 

[tec699]

Im just giving an example....

It might sound extreme but this is what happens when inner city youth are denied a chance to succeed. For me.. what I fear is that we are taking away the chance for inner city youth to succeed. The money that's going to Israel could be used for America's infrastructure such as our inner cities... Which in-turn will save the inner city youth from being destructive! And that can only happen with a college degree. Most will not become rappers or pro ball players. The best chance is for them to succeed is to acquire an college education, but if we start to deny college loans then that dream will cease to exist!

 

[tcsenter]

If the US weren't supporting Israel, all the Arab nations would have exterminated the Jews long ago. The only reason Israel still exists is because it can defend itself from Arab neighbors that have proven their aggressive intentions over and over.

Put it this way.. If an inner city youth is denied college tuition because our government cuts the aid, then don't be suprised if that individual puts a gun to your head and robs you and your family!

Give me a break! Like the only alternative to getting into the college of your choice is robbing people? Tens of millions of people throughout the decades have not had the luxury of 'preferred' opportunities, but they don't resort to violence or criminal means.

Heck, I couldn't afford to go to Michigan State, so I'm going on a tri-state killing spree. See ya on CNN!

 

[Ornery]

Within this context, it noted the necessity of tackling the continuing state terrorism being carried out by the Government of Israel against the people of Palestine. Interesting how Arabs twist things, eh?

...And this is one twisted topic. You've got two or three issues here!

IMO, we ought to concentrate on creating jobs in the inner city by embracing business, rather than taxing and litigating it out of existence.

Then there's the attitude problem:

• • ML
    Look at those Korean motherf*ckers
    across the street. I betcha they
    haven't been a year off da
    motherf*cking boat before they
    opened up their own place.
    
    
    COCONUT SID
    It's been about a year.
    
    
    ML
    A motherf*cking year off the
    motherf*cking boat and got a good
    business in our neighborhood
    occupying a building that had been
    boarded up for longer than I care
    to remember and I've been here a
    long time.
    
    
    SWEET DICK WILLIE
    It has been a long time.
    
    
    COCONUT SID
    How long?
    
    
    ML
    Too long! Too long. Now for the
    life of me, I haven't been able to
    figger this out. Either dem
    Koreans are geniuses or we Blacks
    are dumb.
  
  
  
  This is truly a stupefying question and all three are silent.
  What is the answer?

 

[tcsenter]

It might sound extreme but this is what happens when inner city youth are denied a chance to succeed. For me.. what I fear is that we are taking away the chance for inner city youth to succeed. The money that's going to Israel could be used for America's infrastructure such as our inner cities... Which in-turn will save the inner city youth from being destructive! And that can only happen with a college degree. Most will not become rappers or pro ball players. The best chance is for them to succeed is to acquire an college education, but if we start to deny college loans then that dream will cease to exist!

I'm all for opportunity and education, but I'm afraid you've bought heavily into the liberal lie.

I'm very familiar with the ghetto mentality, intimately familiar with it.

The choice is not between going to college and knocking over the local liquor store. Part of the problem is an inner-city culture that worships "fast money".

College isn't "fast money", it takes lots of work. Even then, you may have to work for up to five years after graduation to establish a solid work history before you can enjoy a respectable income in your field. That isn't the 'quick and dirty' route to wealth, and it is the 'quick and dirty' route to wealth which an inordinate number of inner city youths are fascinated with.

Many start engaging in criminal behavior LONG before having to think about college and will ruin their chances of even being accepted into college well before graduating high school. Financial means to pay for college will never be an issue if you've been arrested five times before your 16th birthday and dropped out of school.

Others resort to stealing and robbing to support a drug habit which they developed for reasons unrelated to their family's financial means to pay for college. Its not like their application is denied due to insufficient financial means then decide to become addicted to heroin.

There are many socioeconomic and indeed cultural factors which will preclude their chances of ever being accepted to college, financial means or no financial means.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Israel is our staunchest ally in the region and they are basically surrounded by hostile (Syria) and not quite hostile (Egypt, Jordan) neighbors. Aid to Israel should be dramatically reduced . . . particularly in light of continued settlement of the West Bank and Gaza.

Hypothetically, if current aid to Israel was invested in rebuilding West Bank/Gaza infrastructure including a real civilian police force it is quite possible the Palestinians would make insurrgents from Syria and Iran hit the road. The current stall in the peace process is due to Arafat's lack of passion for peace, Sharon's lack of passion for peace, and Bush's lack of passion for peace.

Israelis DESERVE US assistance b/c they typically use our grants/loan guarantees to better their society . . . but they definitely need regime change to deserve the sums we currently send.

 

[colonel]

according to Condoleza Rice the aid will be this year 9 Billion dollars , 2 billion dollars more than last year, the sad part there are using our F18 jets for killing Palestines.:|

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Well the Israeli version is stop bombing and we'll stop bombing.

 

[Looney]

Put it this way.. If an inner city youth is denied college tuition because our government cuts the aid, then don't be suprised if that individual puts a gun to your head and robs you and your family!

Wow, if i was an innercity youth, i would be extremely offended by this. So if an innercity youth didn't go to college, we shouldn't be surprised that they're criminals and social deviant?

And instead of putting blame on that child, you should blame the Israeli government.

Damn, this gets more and more dumb.

 

[bulldawg]

-Put it this way.. If an inner city youth is denied college tuition because our government cuts the aid, then don't be suprised if that individual puts a gun to your head and robs you and your family! And instead of putting blame on that child, you should blame the Israeli government. There the ones that are taking money away from us, which in turn may cause this type of violence.

My opinion might sound a bit extreme, but when someone doesn't have anything to live for, then the only outcome can be bad. And that will happen if our youth are denied a college education because we can't afford it. In 1997.. that 10 billion could have went to build new schools, to giving inner city youth a chance at college, etc...

Not extreme, just the typical rant of an idiot.

 

[StormRider]

You do realize that we give aid to lots of other countries too? For example, Egypt is another big aid receiver. Why the focus only on Israel? Why not a call for stopping of all foreign aid?

I personally don't agree with stopping of aid to Israel. Stopping all aid is like saying, "Okay Arab countries, you can do whatever you want to Israel -- we won't interfere!" -- hardly a moral position to take in my opinion. However, I would like our aid to be tied to some factors like stoppage of Israeli settlements in the distupted terrorities.

 

[Jmman]

Well, I think your whole premise is flawed. How do you get these "inner city" youths to go to college, when many of them have absolutely no desire to go and furthermore, don't even finish high school? I don't think their role models in the music industry are helping them by glorifying guns, drugs, and ho's either. They are undergoing a huge social crisis right now; higher education is not a panacea for all of their problems. Anyway, there is tons of financial aid available right now. IMHO, anyone who wants to go to college has that opportunity and can receive at the very minumum student loans to pay for it.

Secondly, you realize we are giving 1.9 Billion to Egypt as well? Why just single out Israel? These aid packages are an integral part of our foreign policy. It is easy to say "let's just withdraw all aid and personnel from the rest of the world", but that didn't work in the past, and it will certainly not work now. You think the threat of WW3 or terrorism is high now, wait until we adopt an isolationist policy like that.

As far as the settlements, UN resolution 242 gives Israel the legal right to "administer" the West Bank however they see fit until a peace is achieved in the middle east. This probably includes settlements. And anyway, from 1948 to 1967, there were no Jewish settlements in the West Bank and that certainly didn't lead to peace in the region. Maybe when the PLO and the Arab states decide to actually recognize that Israel has a right to exist, and they stop calling for every Jew to be "driven into the sea", a meaningful peace negotiation could be started.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"If an inner city youth is denied college tuition because our government cuts the aid, then don't be suprised if that individual puts a gun to your head and robs you and your family!

Yeah, that boy sounds like real college material to me!

We've been throwing money at "inner city youth" for decades. It doesn't fix the problem! The root of that problem is a whole other topic.

I know what you mean. Went to an inner city school, went on to graduate an Ivy League engineering college Magna Cum-Laude at the ripe old age of 20.
Wouldn't want to be throwing money at folks like myself.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: tec699
The money that's going to Israel could be used for America's infrastructure such as our inner cities... Which in-turn will save the inner city youth from being destructive! And that can only happen with a college degree. Most will not become rappers or pro ball players.

This is simply ridiculous!

For one, the money spent on Israel won't even come close to fixing our problems with the inner city. Also, you make it sound like there are only 3 choices- Go to college, be destructive, or be a rapper/pro ball player.

A college education is not a cure-all for this country's problems. You make it sound like if you don't have a piece of paper your only other option is to be a criminal. The world's richest man does not have a college degree. You didn't see Bill Gates becoming a thug, or Thomas Edison, or Rockefeller, or Andrew Carnegie.

The desire and ability to succeed comes from within you, it is not something you can buy at a store or get from a piece of paper.

You are forgetting about another very important aspect- how the people in the inner city are raised. You'll find that most of the troublemakers were one that were not taught morals and respect and didn't have good parenting. Money will not cure this. Even many of the rappers who do end up becoming millionaires still end up getting in trouble with the law. Money doesn't solve those problems, behavior is instilled in kids when they're growing up.

Unless you tackle the problem of bad parenting in the inner city first, giving them money will only make them rich thugs instead of poor ones.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
The choice is not between going to college and knocking over the local liquor store. Part of the problem is an inner-city culture that worships "fast money".

College isn't "fast money", it takes lots of work. Even then, you may have to work for up to five years after graduation to establish a solid work history before you can enjoy a respectable income in your field. That isn't the 'quick and dirty' route to wealth, and it is the 'quick and dirty' route to wealth which an inordinate number of inner city youths are fascinated with.

Many start engaging in criminal behavior LONG before having to think about college and will ruin their chances of even being accepted into college well before graduating high school.

Others resort to stealing and robbing to support a drug habit which they developed for reasons unrelated to their family's financial means to pay for college. There are many socioeconomic and indeed cultural factors which will preclude their chances of ever being accepted to college, financial means or no financial means.

I completely agree. I live in the northeast, between Camden, Philly, and NY. I went to school with many inner city people. Believe me when I say this- their problems start loooong before money even becomes an issue. Lots of them just aren't raised right.

 

[tcsenter]

You do realize that we give aid to lots of other countries too? For example, Egypt is another big aid receiver. Why the focus only on Israel? Why not a call for stopping of all foreign aid?

We would give and have promised a lot more economic relief to Palestinians but Arafat has always wanted to have one foot in the peace process and another in Islamic Jihad. We have given the Palestinian Authority a lot of assistance. We basically paid for the entire costs of training, arming, and equpping the Palestinian security force which Arafat was supposed to use in conjuntion with Israel to crack down on militants.

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

You do realize that we give aid to lots of other countries too? For example, Egypt is another big aid receiver. Why the focus only on Israel? Why not a call for stopping of all foreign aid?

We would give and have promised a lot more economic relief to Palestinians but Arafat has always wanted to have one foot in the peace process and another in Islamic Jihad. We have given the Palestinian Authority a lot of assistance. We basically paid for the entire costs of training, arming, and equpping the Palestinian security force which Arafat was supposed to use in conjuntion with Israel to crack down on militants.

The USA also contributed over $120 million in 2001 for their "refugee" camps. Compare this amount with the Arab countries, to include Saudi Arabia, who paid a total of $7 million.

 

[Colt45]

The American people's money should be spent on the american people.

 

[tec699]

Originally posted by: Colt45
The American people's money should be spent on the american people.

thank you. Let us decide where the money should go, because it's our money... NOT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT'S!

 

[Iwentsouth]

Jimmy Carter and the camp David Accords are responsible. We bought peace between Egypt and Israel by promising to keep them both secure form hostile threats. Jimmy Carter is a noble peace prize winner. Anwar Sadat was assasinated for it.

 

[ReiAyanami]

the money is pocket change in comparison to the whole budget, but you don't want the federal government being in charge of solving inner city problems. they wont be able to, you want inner cities to be in charge of inner city problems.

tommy thomson as gov of michigan cut their welfare rolls in half, he used the state's welfare allotment to focus on job training with great results. the problem can't be solved just with money, it is a cultural and structural problem

 

[HappyGamer2]

tommy is from Wisconsin, he is one slippery sucker, he loves welfare, that is welfare for the rich

 

[Siwy]

Originally posted by: Jmman
Well, I think your whole premise is flawed. How do you get these "inner city" youths to go to college, when many of them have absolutely no desire to go and furthermore, don't even finish high school? I don't think their role models in the music industry are helping them by glorifying guns, drugs, and ho's either. They are undergoing a huge social crisis right now; higher education is not a panacea for all of their problems. Anyway, there is tons of financial aid available right now. IMHO, anyone who wants to go to college has that opportunity and can receive at the very minumum student loans to pay for it.

Secondly, you realize we are giving 1.9 Billion to Egypt as well? Why just single out Israel? These aid packages are an integral part of our foreign policy. It is easy to say "let's just withdraw all aid and personnel from the rest of the world", but that didn't work in the past, and it will certainly not work now. You think the threat of WW3 or terrorism is high now, wait until we adopt an isolationist policy like that.

As far as the settlements, UN resolution 242 gives Israel the legal right to "administer" the West Bank however they see fit until a peace is achieved in the middle east. This probably includes settlements. And anyway, from 1948 to 1967, there were no Jewish settlements in the West Bank and that certainly didn't lead to peace in the region. Maybe when the PLO and the Arab states decide to actually recognize that Israel has a right to exist, and they stop calling for every Jew to be "driven into the sea", a meaningful peace negotiation could be started.

In Resolution 242 it says nothing about giving "Israel the legal right to "administer" the West Bank however they see fit until a peace is achieved in the middle east"

On contrary it says: "Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict"

 

[Jmman]

Originally posted by: Siwy

Originally posted by: Jmman
Well, I think your whole premise is flawed. How do you get these "inner city" youths to go to college, when many of them have absolutely no desire to go and furthermore, don't even finish high school? I don't think their role models in the music industry are helping them by glorifying guns, drugs, and ho's either. They are undergoing a huge social crisis right now; higher education is not a panacea for all of their problems. Anyway, there is tons of financial aid available right now. IMHO, anyone who wants to go to college has that opportunity and can receive at the very minumum student loans to pay for it.

Secondly, you realize we are giving 1.9 Billion to Egypt as well? Why just single out Israel? These aid packages are an integral part of our foreign policy. It is easy to say "let's just withdraw all aid and personnel from the rest of the world", but that didn't work in the past, and it will certainly not work now. You think the threat of WW3 or terrorism is high now, wait until we adopt an isolationist policy like that.

As far as the settlements, UN resolution 242 gives Israel the legal right to "administer" the West Bank however they see fit until a peace is achieved in the middle east. This probably includes settlements. And anyway, from 1948 to 1967, there were no Jewish settlements in the West Bank and that certainly didn't lead to peace in the region. Maybe when the PLO and the Arab states decide to actually recognize that Israel has a right to exist, and they stop calling for every Jew to be "driven into the sea", a meaningful peace negotiation could be started.

In Resolution 242 it says nothing about giving "Israel the legal right to "administer" the West Bank however they see fit until a peace is achieved in the middle east"

On contrary it says: "Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict"

Well, not according to the guy who helped write it.......
link

"Nothing could be further from the truth. Resolution 242, which as undersecretary of state for political affairs between 1966 and 1969 I helped produce, calls on the parties to make peace and allows Israel to administer the territories it occupied in 1967 until "a just and lasting peace in the Middle East" is achieved. When such a peace is made, Israel is required to withdraw its armed forces "from territories" it occupied during the Six-Day War--not from "the" territories nor from "all" the territories, but from some of the territories, which included the Sinai Desert, the West Bank, the Golan Heights, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.