Why are we Californians charged such high gas prices now?

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gwlam12

Diamond Member
Apr 4, 2001
6,946
1
71
Originally posted by: Mallow
Obviously b/c sweet crude has been trading at 60-62 the last week or so, dropped down to 58 yesterday though. Also the environmental laws about refining, CA gas tax.

It was trading at $78 last summer and it still wasn't this expensive.
 

KLin

Lifer
Feb 29, 2000
29,554
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The oil companies definitely have a tight grip on us Californians by the testicles.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
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Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Supposedly it is "Refiners to blame for rise in gas prices"

My favorite blurb
Rising gas prices hit hard for Andrea Magnum, who lives in Port St. John and works in Titusville.

It costs about $70 to fill up her Ford Expedition now, compared with the $50 she was paying for a fill-up a couple of months ago, Magnum said.

"It's just unbelievable," she said.

Magnum's husband installed new equipment in the Expedition with hopes it will save on gas mileage, she said. Cold air intake, I'd bet. Perfume on a pig

And the family is cutting back in other ways to compensate for the increased expense.

"You've got to cut down somehow, whether it's getting the cheaper groceries or not going out on a Friday night," she said. "It affects your life."


I'm guessing he got one of those "tornado" devices. :laugh:
 

Toasthead

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2001
6,621
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Originally posted by: Ronstang
Originally posted by: jdoggg12
Originally posted by: Ronstang
Originally posted by: jdoggg12
Originally posted by: Ronstang
Ask your idiots in Sacramento to open up the coast for offshore drilling.

Uhh no... i like the beaches having no oil on them thanks. I live in Santa Barbara and we DO have some off site drilling... occasionally theres some spillage and the beaches get screwed for months/years.

So what are you going to do one day when oil becomes even more scarce and states like mine, Texas, just decide we won't ship it your way as it best suits fueling our economy?

I love the CA mindset of "not in my backyard" but then expect everyone to bend over backwards providing them with the things they don't want to produce in state and then bitch about the price. This will continue to bite you in the ass and one day it will be your undoing.

Uhh.... you DO realize that digging for more oil is just a band aid right? The answer is to find alternative power methods.

Why don't you get off your high horse. If you moved to CA and paid the premium that we all pay to live here, you wouldn't want it either... it wouldn't affect the price of gas greatly anyway.

I wasn't bitching about the price. I live here and accept that there's a financial premium to do so. But since you seem to know whats best for the county - why dont you lay out a 5/10/50 year plan on how CA should sort out its gas/energy issues.

Hey dipshit I am not on a high horse and I LIVED in CA and will never go back except to visit my brother. Drilling for more oil is more than just a band aid it is a REALITY at the moment so you need to deal with it whether you like it or not. The funny thing about the whiners like you is they always say things like "THEY need to find alternatives" which puts the responsibility on someone else (what else would I expect) and makes it sound simple. You solve the problem why don't you? You wouldn't be such a whiney ass about prices then.

You do realize that if there was an economically feasible alternative it would already be in mass use noe don't you? Oil is damned hard to get to and get to a usable form to put in your tank so if there was a feasible alternative it WOULD be in use. Any alternative is going to cost more than gas does anyway so who are you going to complain to about the price then? Who will be the scapegoat of your delusional conspiracy crap then?

Yeah because we dont produce ANYTHING in CA we just get EVERYTHING from other states...

 

yuppiejr

Golden Member
Jul 31, 2002
1,317
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You elected these idiots, deal with it... most of the disparity in gas price is tax rather than "big oil" profit related. Perhaps you should look at not housing/schooling/providing free healthcare to the illegals living in your state? Then again, who's going to pick all of that fresh organic fruit for your morning soy milk smoothie...
 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
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Dick Cheney told them it was ok to screw us.

So they do. There will be record profits again, so as long as it's good for business, it's good for America.

Rising gas prices are already eroding consumer confidence. This coupled with the heinous rising ARM's that Mr. Greenspan endorsed so heartily just a few short years ago, will cause the regular guy to re-think everything that's been spoon fed to him the last 12 years.


 

joecool

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2001
2,934
2
81
why are we ALL getting raped? prices have gone up $0.50 in the past month or so and there has been NO coverage on in the media! WTF is going on? Did shrub, dick, and the haliburton gang finally pay off the right people?!!!
 

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: gwlam12
Originally posted by: Mallow
Obviously b/c sweet crude has been trading at 60-62 the last week or so, dropped down to 58 yesterday though. Also the environmental laws about refining, CA gas tax.

It was trading at $78 last summer and it still wasn't this expensive.

Drive for Five has arrived

Starting that again, eh? If you keep saying it, eventually inflation will prove you right.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,197
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Originally posted by: Xanis
Remember when gas was over $3.00 over ALL of the nation? Not to say that's going to happen, but count your blessings. Gas in America is actually cheaper than in most of the world. When I was in Spain, petrol was about $1/liter. At about 3.8 liters to 1 US gallon, that's $3.80 a gallon. Most places were more.

It will break $3.00 again over the summer. I figure the national average will be around $3.20 by the peak summer.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: Xanis
Remember when gas was over $3.00 over ALL of the nation? Not to say that's going to happen, but count your blessings. Gas in America is actually cheaper than in most of the world. When I was in Spain, petrol was about $1/liter. At about 3.8 liters to 1 US gallon, that's $3.80 a gallon. Most places were more.

It will break $3.00 again over the summer. I figure the national average will be around $3.20 by the peak summer.

It will be $4 for most of nthe Country, $5 for Californians.

4-5-2007 Strong Possibility' Gas Will Rise to $4

April 4, 2007 ? For the past two weeks, Iran has not just been holding 15 British soldiers captive; it's been holding the world's oil markets hostage, too.

"There's been a $5 or $6 premium that's been built into the price of oil over this," said Phil Flynn, vice president and energy analyst at Alaron Trading. "Even though this crisis has ended, the oil market is still on guard that the tensions in the Middle East are going to continue."

"Things are looking pretty bad for the upcoming summer driving season," said Flynn, citing a new government report showing that the U.S. stockpiles of gasoline fell by 5 million barrels in the past week, much more than analysts were expecting.

Flynn said he believes gasoline prices will head into record territory ? currently a nationwide average of $3.07 ? by the height of the summer season.

"This is the time of year when we're supposed to be building supplies, but it seems like the refiners just can't get ahead of what has been very, very strong demand," he said.

Today's report shows that the national supply of gas is at the low end of its average range for this time of year, meaning the United States will have less gas in the tank before the peak summer driving season in the coming months.

"Everyone asks me, will we see $4 a gallon? And the answer is, there is a strong possibility that we may see $4 a gallon," said Flynn.
 

Icepick

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2004
3,663
4
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Today's high gasoline prices have a lot to do with the fact that oil companies have discovered that it is more profitable to withhold supply and create an artificial shortage. Less supply keeps prices (and profits) high since the general public has to buy the same amount of gas from week to week to fill their cars/trucks/suvs/recreational vehicles. People can't just decide not to purchase the product when prices go higher.

Not only that but, I'm sure the oil companies have agreements with each other what they will each charge. Think America is a free market society? Think again. Price controls have been in place for years for many necessities that we buy.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Icepick
Today's high gasoline prices have a lot to do with the fact that oil companies have discovered that it is more profitable to withhold supply and create an artificial shortage.

Less supply keeps prices (and profits) high since the general public has to buy the same amount of gas from week to week to fill their cars/trucks/suvs/recreational vehicles.

People can't just decide not to purchase the product when prices go higher.

Not only that but, I'm sure the oil companies have agreements with each other what they will each charge.

Think America is a free market society? Think again. Price controls have been in place for years for many necessities that we buy.

Have you or anyone else seen gas stations out of gas?

Are they going to have to ration the gas because they are holding back on purpose?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
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Aren't the feds forcing us to buy ethanol (oxygenate) to support rednecks in the midwest?
 

miniMUNCH

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2000
4,159
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Icepick
Today's high gasoline prices have a lot to do with the fact that oil companies have discovered that it is more profitable to withhold supply and create an artificial shortage.

Less supply keeps prices (and profits) high since the general public has to buy the same amount of gas from week to week to fill their cars/trucks/suvs/recreational vehicles.

People can't just decide not to purchase the product when prices go higher.

Not only that but, I'm sure the oil companies have agreements with each other what they will each charge.

Think America is a free market society? Think again. Price controls have been in place for years for many necessities that we buy.

Have you or anyone else seen gas stations out of gas?

Are they going to have to ration the gas because they are holding back on purpose?



A few things to note about refineries:

1. refineries have finite crude oil, intermediate, blend stock, and finished gasoline storage. Thus they have to carefully plan production and watch the market. If a refinery runs out of finished fuel storage, they have to sell fuel really cheap and lose profit, sell blend stock to another refinery (lose money), or sell gas out of market for cheap (lose possible profits). Under no circumstances, unless all refineries in market (like CA) are maxing out capacity (see below), will gas stations be without gas. But I have seen times during summers where gas stations were out of premium for a day or so...supply was so tight that stations were getting orders delivered late.

2. Refineries have a maximum production capacity. They typically must operate at at least 50-60% of max. cap. to function well at all. somewhere in the 85-90% of max cap is often most efficient but this varies from refinery to refinery. So say refinery A has max crude capacity of 150,000 Bl/day. A's efficient optimum is probably about 140,000 depending on what crude oil types/grades are blended to make the refinery supply Often referred to as the 'crude slate').

3. Refineries produce marine fuel, jet fuel, diesel, automotive fuel, and aviation (prop) fuel from the same crude slate through a number of processing steps / unit operations. The crude slate, energy costs, and finished fuel prices/demand dictate what a refinery will produce. Refinery A cannot take all the crude and just make all jet fuel or all premium gasoline...no refinery in the world can do this that I know of. Some fraction of the crude will go to diesel/jet/marine fuel, and some to auto fuel... the fractions can be adjusted by modifying the operation of processes in the refinery but the fractionation can only be adjusted within certain limits that are determined by operational capability of process units in the refinery and the make-up of the crude slate.

It can take days to adjust and tune refinery operation to change fuel fractionation or to account for changes in the crude slate while maintaining safe operating conditions and efficiency. So refineries don't make production changes on a whim.


All that being said...

The automotive fuel market is effected by the marine, jet, and diesel fuel markets. Since CA has a high amount of flight traffic and two very busy ports, not to mention a lot of trucking/rail shipping from ports, etc. the CA automotive fuel market is inherently a little more turbulent.

Refineries scale production to find a profit optimum and they sell produce/sell fuel accordingly. When planning production, the types of crude oil available and price/barrel of each along with the current and projected finished fuel prices are considered. Also refineries capabilities for processing different grades of crude and production of different finished fuels (and at what energy cost) are also taken into consideration.

I am kinda getting tired of typing this but hopefully, from what little I said, folks can see some possible scenarios that would hike gas prices.

For instance, anything that increases demand for marine/jet/diesel fuel will pull supply away from automotive fuel market which could lead to price increases to balance supply and demand.

Or if the supply of a particular crude stock (from Mexico say) were to change suddenly... this could effect CA refineries that use that crude in their crude slate. The refineries can (A) bid against one another for the cut supply, (B) try to find a crude and combo of crudes that will effectively replace the Mexico crude, or (C) change production/operation of the refinery. In truth, refineries will do all of the above.... but this costs money so gas prices go up. The oil market as a whole could be going down but the decrease of a local crude supply effect the local CA market and could increase gas prices in CA.
 

OVerLoRDI

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
5,490
4
81
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Merlyn3D
Originally posted by: ChaoZ
Tougher environmental laws I guess.

I think that's BS.

But it's true. CA laws require special formulations that increase the cost of gas in your state. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

And that still doesn't explain the 30-40 cent increase over the last month. It's gone up for no good reason, oil prices aren't up.

They are actually, oil was down to 50 a few months ago now it is up around 65.
 

OVerLoRDI

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
5,490
4
81
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: j00fek
another gas thread

man cant you people get it?

gas will not ever go below $2/gal EVER AGAIN

You guys said that last year too and it was under $2/gal in most of the country for almost two months.

BTW, California is paying more for gas than Hawaii right now.

That is weird, usually Hawaii is way up there, generally higher than CA (I think).
 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
0
0
1. punishment for voting for the other guy in 2004.
2. mo' money, mo' money, mo' money.
3. somebody still has some discretionary cash left and Chevron wants it.
4. setting record profit last year wasn't good enough
5. you think this is high? wait until next year at this time!!!!