Why are we baiting Putin?

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,711
8
81
Interesting read over here regarding Cheney's attack on Russia: article

I would have to say I agree with one of his points, why should we meddle in Russia's backyard when we are so sensitive to anyone messing around in ours? It's a dangerous double standard.. and we're making a lot of enemies lately
 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
2,963
0
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Cause the people who make our foreign policy are as retarded as the people who planned the invasion of Iraq. As the latter have done with 5000 years of military history, the state department (and the president and his staff) have done with the last 5000 years of political history... namely - shoved it up their collective asses.
 

FrancesBeansRevenge

Platinum Member
Jun 6, 2001
2,181
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Originally posted by: ntdz
Because he's being a little bitch regarding Iran...

You mean he's looking after Russian interests and not bowing down to the geopolitical will of almighty America? That prick!
 

Skyclad1uhm1

Lifer
Aug 10, 2001
11,383
87
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Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge
Originally posted by: ntdz
Because he's being a little bitch regarding Iran...

You mean he's looking after Russian interests and not bowing down to the geopolitical will of almighty America? That prick!

Indeed! And that with all the overwhelming evidence of Iran making nukes, just like with Iraq possessing WMDs!
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
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Originally posted by: Drift3r
The "military-industrial complex" needs a reason to validate their usefulness.

This is my answer as well. I think that the Neocons need someone that they can start Cold War part Deaux with and Russia has always been a willing partner in this respect.
 

wirelessenabled

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2001
2,192
44
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Cheney just lining up his post VP retirement plan. Lots more opportunities for a guy like him with multiple conflicts raging.

USA is just one of those collateral damage places in the quest for Cheney's greater glory:disgust:
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
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In order to fulfill their promise to the religeous conservatives that they will expedite the 'Rapture'.

End days - the end of the world.
 

spikespiegal

Golden Member
Oct 10, 2005
1,219
9
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I have another theory. Both Putin and Cheney are pretty smart dudes that don't give a frak about sabre rattling or postering. We can disagree with their political alignment, but I woulnd't play a game of Stratego against either, even if they were drunk and blind folded.

My own theory is this is an attempt by both countries to keep a comfortable distance from each other and not appear to be partners in terms of world policies. Both the U.S. and Russia have done better policy-wise when we don't appear as partners. Otherwise we appear to be too strong in the eyes of the rest of the world.

It's not so much our cold war habits being tough to break, but the rest of the world is still used to the old, political ways.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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Cheney is pandering to the Republican base------with no glory to point to in Iraq------its trot out the ever faithful bash the Russians.--with no Russians in the audience it always brings down the house.

The problem is that we will need Rusian help sooner or later in our foreign policy. And some of these remarks will come back to
hurt the USA. But then again, seldom if ever does a neocon ever get accused of thinking ahead.
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
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Originally posted by: ntdz
Because he's being a little bitch regarding Iran...

I suspect your right on that..its a i'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine.
 

Polish3d

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2005
5,500
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Originally posted by: spikespiegal
I have another theory. Both Putin and Cheney are pretty smart dudes that don't give a frak about sabre rattling or postering. We can disagree with their political alignment, but I woulnd't play a game of Stratego against either, even if they were drunk and blind folded.

My own theory is this is an attempt by both countries to keep a comfortable distance from each other and not appear to be partners in terms of world policies. Both the U.S. and Russia have done better policy-wise when we don't appear as partners. Otherwise we appear to be too strong in the eyes of the rest of the world.

It's not so much our cold war habits being tough to break, but the rest of the world is still used to the old, political ways.


Interesting insight.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
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Originally posted by: spikespiegal
I have another theory. Both Putin and Cheney are pretty smart dudes that don't give a frak about sabre rattling or postering. We can disagree with their political alignment, but I woulnd't play a game of Stratego against either, even if they were drunk and blind folded.

My own theory is this is an attempt by both countries to keep a comfortable distance from each other and not appear to be partners in terms of world policies. Both the U.S. and Russia have done better policy-wise when we don't appear as partners. Otherwise we appear to be too strong in the eyes of the rest of the world.

It's not so much our cold war habits being tough to break, but the rest of the world is still used to the old, political ways.

Interesting point, and plausable. China and some other parts of the world would take a dump in their shorts if it looked like us and Russia teamed up (like the US & UK).

As far as the Iranian issue, would Russia have much chance of being persuasive if they appeared to be in league with us? I think not, they would merely be dismissed as puppets of the US.

In January, Putin decided to stop piping subsidized gas to Kiev and start charging the market price. Reason: Ukraine's president, elected with the assistance of U.S. foundations and quasi-government agencies, said he was reorienting Kiev's foreign policy away from Russia and toward NATO and the United States.

If you are headed for NATO, Putin was saying to President Viktor Yushchenko, you can forget the subsidized gas.

What is their beef with Putin's policy?

Come on, is it all that hard to see? Like I find Russia's actions understandable/logical, likewise with US. "If you swing to our side, we'll support you". That's all Cheney's doing here. If we just let them slowly twist in the wind when Russia "retaliated", we'll that would be retarded. Sort of like what Bush #41 did to the Kurds.

All in all, sounds business as usual to me.

Fern
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,775
6,770
126
It's like surfing your own waves. You ride disaster after disaster of your own making and nobody can catch you.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Consider this - Dr. Condaleeza Rice is a (quote) "Expert" on Soviet Russian Relationships.
Could they be trying to elevate the importance of her perceived value to their conservative base by pushing an agenda?
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
Simple. Our masters in China told him to during their recent visit.
Our Chinese masters also told us not to label them a currency manipulator. Which they are so completely the term "currency manipulator" was made for EXACTLY what China is doing.
 

azazyel

Diamond Member
Oct 6, 2000
5,872
1
81
I really love how I'm seeing more and more of Buchanan here. I really enjoy how much he points how our current administration's slide towards Marxism. The whole issue of Trotskyism and the drive for perpetual revolution/war.

Painting the White House Red
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
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Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: spikespiegal
I have another theory. Both Putin and Cheney are pretty smart dudes that don't give a frak about sabre rattling or postering. We can disagree with their political alignment, but I woulnd't play a game of Stratego against either, even if they were drunk and blind folded.

My own theory is this is an attempt by both countries to keep a comfortable distance from each other and not appear to be partners in terms of world policies. Both the U.S. and Russia have done better policy-wise when we don't appear as partners. Otherwise we appear to be too strong in the eyes of the rest of the world.

It's not so much our cold war habits being tough to break, but the rest of the world is still used to the old, political ways.

Interesting point, and plausable. China and some other parts of the world would take a dump in their shorts if it looked like us and Russia teamed up (like the US & UK).
As far as the Iranian issue, would Russia have much chance of being persuasive if they appeared to be in league with us? I think not, they would merely be dismissed as puppets of the US.

In January, Putin decided to stop piping subsidized gas to Kiev and start charging the market price. Reason: Ukraine's president, elected with the assistance of U.S. foundations and quasi-government agencies, said he was reorienting Kiev's foreign policy away from Russia and toward NATO and the United States.

If you are headed for NATO, Putin was saying to President Viktor Yushchenko, you can forget the subsidized gas.

What is their beef with Putin's policy?

Come on, is it all that hard to see? Like I find Russia's actions understandable/logical, likewise with US. "If you swing to our side, we'll support you". That's all Cheney's doing here. If we just let them slowly twist in the wind when Russia "retaliated", we'll that would be retarded. Sort of like what Bush #41 did to the Kurds.

All in all, sounds business as usual to me.

Fern

We are taking a dump in our shorts!! Everytime it looks like China and the Soviet Union are cooperating together!!
 

Abraxas

Golden Member
Oct 26, 2004
1,056
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Originally posted by: azazyel
I really love how I'm seeing more and more of Buchanan here. I really enjoy how much he points how our current administration's slide towards Marxism. The whole issue of Trotskyism and the drive for perpetual revolution/war.

Painting the White House Red

I'm sorry, that article is just plain stupid. He hits on two aspects of Marxist thought and uses that as evidence the White House is on a Marxist slope. The first being the idea of perpetual war, the second being the idea of globalization.

On the first, he draws a bad parallel between the idea of constant political shifts within a socialist/communist state, the perpetual revolution, between the chimp in chiefs pledge to bring a democratic revolution to the world. The problem is, of course, that either Bush or the author of this tripe has no idea what a revolution is. A revoltion by its nature must come from within, not without. You cannot send in an army to a foreign land and call it a revolution. Marx and Engels advocated the working class rising up and throwing of the reigns of oppression or whatever, not the US sending its army around the globe to kick over petty tyrants and create magic democracies out of pixie dust, which appears to be the Bush plan.

Secondly, even if this were in line with Marxist ideology, so what? Are you saying it would be a bad thing if all the oppressed peoples of the world in North Korea, Iran, and wherever else took up arms to rid themselves of the dictators that oppress them in favor of a democratic system? I am going to wager you consider democracy to be preferable to dictatorship and that if people want democracy they should have it. So I'll ask again, what is the problem?

On the issue of globalization, supporting the same means does not mean supporting the same end. The mere fact Dubya thinks globalization does not mean he views it the same way as the Marxists who supported it as well. We can be fairly sure that Bush does not support it due to a belief that it will destroy capitalism as Marx and Engels did.

Finally, there is a great deal of false equivocation that takes place. What the west thinks of as democracy, for example, is not what Marx thought of when he wrote it. What the west thinks of as communism, and what the eastern european states he cites had, is not what Marx wrote about. Just because Bush and Marx use many of the same words does not mean they are being used in the same way nor that they mean the same thing.

All and all, the article is utter crap.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
The "military-industrial complex" needs a reason to validate their usefulness.
I would contend that providing weapons systems that provide America with a vast technological advantage, thereby enabling our nation to maintain a relatively small but highly effective volunteer standing military force, is a fairly strong validation.

Not to mention that numerous products created by the "military-industrial complex" have provided signficant benefits, ranging in areas from humanitarian relief to application of military technologies into the private sector.

The military-industrial complex is a boogey man...much like the alleged liberal media.