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Why are tobacco companies evil but not alcohol companies?

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ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,519
165
106
Frankly, I think the only reason alcohol companies aren't lumped with tobacco companies is because of 1 thing: sex. The modern human race(or at least, western culture) is reliant upon alcohol for sex, and that's all there is to it.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
22,724
989
126
I didn't read the thread, so sorry if this has already been said.

One reason: alcohol has many positive uses in society, tobacco has none. Sure alcohol has problems too, but as long as a product has so many good uses, manufacturing it cannot be "evil". Tobacco only serves two purposes: (1) to kill the user, and (2) to make the user so stressed that he/she thinks he/she needs a vice.
 

GoingUp

Lifer
Jul 31, 2002
16,721
0
71
do you get second hand drunk from being around someone when they drink? do you get cancer when someone next to you drinks? didnt think so.
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever
Originally posted by: Mwilding
It's not even sarcastic...
Actually, it is. You sir, were baited. Better luck next time.

Peace.
All those who couldn't see this easily will please report to the back of the short bus where you will be given your protective helmets. :p

ZV
sarcastic by definition? yes...

sarcastic by any measure of worthiness? not at all...
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,071
8,498
126
Originally posted by: dullard
I didn't read the thread, so sorry if this has already been said.

One reason: alcohol has many positive uses in society, tobacco has none. Sure alcohol has problems too, but as long as a product has so many good uses, manufacturing it cannot be "evil". Tobacco only serves two purposes: (1) to kill the user, and (2) to make the user so stressed that he/she thinks he/she needs a vice.
Of course that's bullsh!t. Tobacco (and nicotine) has numerous beneficial uses asides from smoking it, particularly in medicine.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
22,724
989
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Of course that's bullsh!t. Tobacco (and nicotine) has numerous beneficial uses asides from smoking it, particularly in medicine.
But there is a huge difference between tobacco and nicotine. This isn't a discussion about nicotine. Take Phillip Morris as an example. They make one and only one product: cigarettes. They don't sell just nicotine which may be beneficial - they ONLY sell nicotine in a form that will kill ~1/3rd of its users.
 

PowerMac4Ever

Banned
Dec 9, 2000
5,246
0
0
Originally posted by: Mwilding
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever
Originally posted by: Mwilding
It's not even sarcastic...
Actually, it is. You sir, were baited. Better luck next time.

Peace.
All those who couldn't see this easily will please report to the back of the short bus where you will be given your protective helmets. :p

ZV
sarcastic by definition? yes...

sarcastic by any measure of worthiness? not at all...
ouch...
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever
Originally posted by: Mwilding
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever
Originally posted by: Mwilding
It's not even sarcastic...
Actually, it is. You sir, were baited. Better luck next time.

Peace.
All those who couldn't see this easily will please report to the back of the short bus where you will be given your protective helmets. :p

ZV
sarcastic by definition? yes...

sarcastic by any measure of worthiness? not at all...
ouch...
:p

 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,485
33
86
Originally posted by: SampSon
Hating on smoking is a fad.
I have an inhaler in my pocket that tells me this "fad" will last the rest of my life.

 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,071
8,498
126
Originally posted by: dullard
But there is a huge difference between tobacco and nicotine. This isn't a discussion about nicotine. Take Phillip Morris as an example. They make one and only one product: cigarettes. They don't sell just nicotine which may be beneficial - they ONLY sell nicotine in a form that will kill ~1/3rd of its users.
And all Seagrams or Jack Daniels does is sell whiskey, which has no other use but for people to drink it. I don't get your point.

Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: SampSon
Hating on smoking is a fad.
I have an inhaler in my pocket that tells me this "fad" will last the rest of my life.
I'm very sorry to hear that, but it's not like anyone forced you to smoke.
 

I have an inhaler in my pocket that tells me this "fad" will last the rest of my life.
That's unfortunate. Is it smoking related?
I was being sarcastic about the fad. Smoking has been around for a long time, and will continue to be.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
61,029
4,592
126
I'm very sorry to hear that, but it's not like anyone forced you to smoke.
Maybe he was one of thousands of children that developed asthma from living in a smokers household.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
22,724
989
126
Originally posted by: Vic
And all Seagrams or Jack Daniels does is sell whiskey, which has no other use but for people to drink it. I don't get your point.
One drink a day (regardless of the source) will dramatically lower your risk of heart problems. Studies first showed that red wine helped, then studies proved it with white wine, now studies show all alcohol helps if you drink it in moderation. So Seagrams or Jack Daniels may very well have saved many lives. Of course it can be abused - any product can be abused. My point is that in many cases, Seagrams and Jack Daniels provide a very valuable and good product for society. Phillip Morris doesn't. That is why tobacco companies are considered worse than alcohol companies.

I personally feel that alcohol is quite evil for many users as well (my wife's family is full of alcoholics that destroyed their lives) - and thus it should be regulated far more than it currently is. But I don't think alcohol should be banned. My side of the family is full of smokers who died due to cancer - and thus it should be regulated far more than it currently is. Until I see one real benefit that cigarettes have to society - I think it should be banned. Note: I'm not saying nicotine should be banned - just its current popular delivery methods.

Note: you could replace 'regulated' with 'more enforcement of current regulations' in the paragraph above and I'd still be happy.
 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,337
1
76
Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
do you get second hand drunk from being around someone when they drink? do you get cancer when someone next to you drinks? didnt think so.
Man tell that to me friend. He insists on saying that he gets second-hand drunk. I guess because all of the stupid sh!t we do when we're drunk, he acts and feels stupider from being around us. ;)

Also, as someone said, those malt beverages are expensive, but they definitely are aimed at a younger crowd and women, especially under-age women. In my high school, that's all the ladies will drink, Bacardi 03, Raz, the Iced Teas, Lemonades, Triple Black, Ice, Skyy Blue, all that garbage. They don't give a sh*t theyre dropping 20$ on a 12 pack when they could be getting some great tasting beer for that money; Yueng-Ling, Sam Adams, Warsteiner(sp? it's a rather tastey German Beer I happen to like). They get most of their money from mommy and daddy anyway. Or hell, they can even get a decent bottle of liquor for that much.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,485
33
86
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: dullard
But there is a huge difference between tobacco and nicotine. This isn't a discussion about nicotine. Take Phillip Morris as an example. They make one and only one product: cigarettes. They don't sell just nicotine which may be beneficial - they ONLY sell nicotine in a form that will kill ~1/3rd of its users.
And all Seagrams or Jack Daniels does is sell whiskey, which has no other use but for people to drink it. I don't get your point.

Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: SampSon
Hating on smoking is a fad.
I have an inhaler in my pocket that tells me this "fad" will last the rest of my life.
I'm very sorry to hear that, but it's not like anyone forced you to smoke.
You're right...and I haven't smoked, either. I just hate walking ashtrays due to shortness of breath when near them or in their wake.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,485
33
86
Originally posted by: vi_edit
I'm very sorry to hear that, but it's not like anyone forced you to smoke.
Maybe he was one of thousands of children that developed asthma from living in a smokers household.
While that may have contributed (my father has smoked since before I was born,a dn my mother and I both have bad allergies), it was actually just last year, walking into the house after sealant had been put down on the new bathroom floor. Wham! Could hardly breath, and went into fits of coughing for several minutes at a time w/o being able to inhale.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
61,029
4,592
126
While that may have contributed (my father has smoked since before I was born,a dn my mother and I both have bad allergies), it was actually just last year, walking into the house after sealant had been put down on the new bathroom floor. Wham! Could hardly breath, and went into fits of coughing for several minutes at a time w/o being able to inhale.
Sorry to hear that :(

This year my father got chlorine poisoning from working at an indoor pool facility that had some mechanical problems. The chlorine amounts in the air were at a dangerous level and now he has developed an alergic reaction to chlorine. It's induced some sort of chronic asthma in him that requires him to have an inhaler at all times. If he is exposed to chlorine he goes into an asthma attack. Earlier this year he nearly died and had to be taken into the hospital via an ambulance because he passed out and couldn't breath.

It's a very scary and unsettling feeling knowing that you could loose somebody that quickly.

 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,485
33
86
Originally posted by: vi_edit
While that may have contributed (my father has smoked since before I was born,a dn my mother and I both have bad allergies), it was actually just last year, walking into the house after sealant had been put down on the new bathroom floor. Wham! Could hardly breath, and went into fits of coughing for several minutes at a time w/o being able to inhale.
Sorry to hear that :(

This year my father got chlorine poisoning from working at an indoor pool facility that had some mechanical problems. The chlorine amounts in the air were at a dangerous level and now he has developed an alergic reaction to chlorine. It's induced some sort of chronic asthma in him that requires him to have an inhaler at all times. If he is exposed to chlorine he goes into an asthma attack. Earlier this year he nearly died and had to be taken into the hospital via an ambulance because he passed out and couldn't breath.

It's a very scary and unsettling feeling knowing that you could loose somebody that quickly.
Yeah...I can't explain it, but compared to everyone else I know w/ Asthma, I seem to have a really good sense for it. As in, I can tell when one is coming on and from what, and run like hell while exhaling, take some big breaths for a few minutes and be fine...for some reason a lot of people just assume it will be unpredictable and leave it at that.
Then again, being plagued with the great http://www.noattacks.org/ PSA (that and community coalition one are starting to get real old)...it's kinda sad to know that people will truly be ignorant enough to need such basic information and understanding.
 

Wuffsunie

Platinum Member
May 4, 2002
2,808
0
0
Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever
Originally posted by: Mwilding
Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever
Smokers should be rolled up in paper and BURNED. Then they'll know what it's like!
to suffer like the poor tobacco leaves?
Nuclear weapons should be fired upon all of the tobacco plants on the south. THAT'LL take care of the tobacco plants and the FARMERS that are just as bad as SMOKERS.
Oh, come on! Why should I not be permitted to exploit the stupidity and gullibility of the masses for my own profit? If people wish to buy knowing full well what it has the potential to do to them, why should I not be allowed to sell?

And I agree that alcohol has better PR behind it. The sex aspect behind it also works well.

Originally posted by: dullard
Take Philip Morris as an example. They make one and only one product: cigarettes. They don't sell just nicotine which may be beneficial - they ONLY sell nicotine in a form that will kill ~1/3rd of its users.
Umm... right Hee, actually PM is hitting both sides of the argument as they own Miller as well. I remember their takeover of Kraft foods being HUGE a while back.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
22,724
989
126
Originally posted by: Wuffsunie
L=Umm... right]http://www.bad-corp.org/company.cfm?caid=8723000&action=products[/L] Hee, actually PM is hitting both sides of the argument as they own Miller as well. I remember their takeover of Kraft foods being HUGE a while back.
Umm you are behind the times. That company you linked to is now called Altria. Altria owns Kraft, Phillip Morris, etc. Phillip Morris has been cut down to be JUST a cigarette manufacturer.
 

nodoubts2k

Golden Member
Sep 7, 2003
1,531
1
71
Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever
Originally posted by: Mwilding
Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever
Smokers should be rolled up in paper and BURNED. Then they'll know what it's like!
to suffer like the poor tobacco leaves?

Nuclear weapons should be fired upon all of the tobacco plants on the south. THAT'LL take care of the tobacco plants and the FARMERS that are just as bad as SMOKERS.
Ur an idiot. Please shut up.
 

Wuffsunie

Platinum Member
May 4, 2002
2,808
0
0
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Wuffsunie
Hee, actually PM is hitting both sides of the argument as they own Miller as well. I remember their takeover of Kraft foods being HUGE a while back.
Umm you are behind the times. That company you linked to is now called Altria. Altria owns Kraft, Phillip Morris, etc. Phillip Morris has been cut down to be JUST a cigarette manufacturer.
No, the comany is the same. Philip Morris, a little while back, originally used that name as it's main corporate identity. The PM Limited branch was the subsidary primarily responsible for the cigarrette manufacture. Philip Morris Companies Inc. the parent company that owned the whole list that I had before, changed their name to Altria Group Inc. As you see on their own site. So while, yes, the name of the overall company has changed in a nice PR move, but it's still the exact same setup.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
22,724
989
126
Originally posted by: Wuffsunie
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Wuffsunie
Hee, actually PM is hitting both sides of the argument as they own Miller as well. I remember their takeover of Kraft foods being HUGE a while back.
Umm you are behind the times. That company you linked to is now called Altria. Altria owns Kraft, Phillip Morris, etc. Phillip Morris has been cut down to be JUST a cigarette manufacturer.
No, the comany is the same. Philip Morris, a little while back, originally used that name as it's main corporate identity. The PM Limited branch was the subsidary primarily responsible for the cigarrette manufacture. Philip Morris Companies Inc. the parent company that owned the whole list that I had before, changed their name to Altria Group Inc. As you see on their own site. So while, yes, the name of the overall company has changed in a nice PR move, but it's still the exact same setup.
Yes it is the same setup - it is still one company. But the PM name is switching to be only for their cigarettes. Browse the Phillip Morris website and look at a list of the products they make. It will say (I forgot the exact words or how I got there): Phillip Morris products are cigarettes, our cigarette brands are.... Under the PM products there is no mention of anything else. Basically, they are in the process of segregating that section as much as possible from the rest of Altria. Thus it is safe to say that PM manufactures cigarettes and Altria manufactures a lot more.

Oh heck, it is too late to argue fine details. In my posts above, when I said Phillip Morris, I meant the section of Altria that manufactures cigarettes and that manufactures nothing else. When I say Altria, I mean the whole thing: Kraft, Phillip Morris, etc.
 

onelin

Senior member
Dec 11, 2001
874
0
0
Originally posted by: Vic

Alcohol can in fact kill you. It is even possible to overdose.

I'm with wnied, except it was the relgious right that plunged us into the last prohibition, so I wouldn't be surprised if they tried it again... :frown:

moo, f'you, moo...
Yes, I know alcohol can kill. It's called alcohol poisoning, and it only happens to the one drinking. Anyway, it was just a minor point. Second hand smoke can't be totally discounted...but I'm not overly worried...and I even have asthma (which reacts to crappy air quite well).

I hope they never try another prohibition...it's already sad w/ the 'war on drugs'
 

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