Why are those who claim to be "tolerant" and "open" so intolerant towards religion?

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Because Christianity is mainstream. Defending it would be tantamount to defending Britney Spears' music or Walmart.

Wow . . . that's harsh.

But it's somewaht true. Bashing religion is currently "cool," especially on the intarweb. I agree that many people have honest objections to organized religion and I can respect that, but their voices are typically drowned out by the vocal AOL 14-year-old's "LOL. Me 2! God sux0rs and I rox0rs for sayin it!"

I freely admit that it is quite possible that the reaason I defend religion at times is partly because of my counter-culture, underdog-supporting nature. If so, then that doesn't make me much better...

We will know ourselves by how we treat the least among us.

Are you criticizing the counter-culture, underdog-supporting nature of Jesus?

 

[jackschmittusa]

I am completely tolerant of religion as long as no one uses it to restrict my freedoms. My biggest problem with religion is that people of faith seem always to want their views represented in law. There are "blue laws" restricting everything from shopping to buying booze on Sundays with the express purpose of not allowing alternatives to going to church. There have been, and still are in many cases, laws against oral and anal sex, based entirely on religious objections. Laws against prostitution and gambling came from religious beliefs. A new tactic of zoning laws that prevent so called "sex shops" within 1000' of a church; conferring a government sanctioned special status to churches. Attempts to force governments to recognise the Creation Story as science in order to feed it to all children.

I supopose that I could be labled as intolorant when the "god card" is played in a discussion (often about abortion and homosexuality) because then there no further point in continuing the discussion. No other ideas or facts seem to have any weight if they are outside of god's will as it might be interpreted.

I have also found the merely expressing my belief that religion is a relic of man's ignorant past is construed as an attack on religion, and therefore, representitive of intolerance.

I feel that it is anybody's right to have religious beliefs and pattern their life after them. I also believe laws should be based on common sense with the goal of good order and security in our society. I freely admit to being intolerant of faith based laws.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Chadder? You still there?

Nope...he's long gone.

I'm still waiting on an answer to an idiotic remark of his here:
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...2&threadid=1408884

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Chadder007

Originally posted by: Todd33
Some religious people try to force their views on others. That chaps my hide. If they keep it to their self, out of the government and schools, I'm fine with Devil worship in private.

I see more NON religious people forcing their views down peoples throats than religous.

Yoo hoo??

Not going to back up your claims for the 2nd time in a week?

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
I am completely tolerant of religion as long as no one uses it to restrict my freedoms. My biggest problem with religion is that people of faith seem always to want their views represented in law. There are "blue laws" restricting everything from shopping to buying booze on Sundays with the express purpose of not allowing alternatives to going to church. There have been, and still are in many cases, laws against oral and anal sex, based entirely on religious objections. Laws against prostitution and gambling came from religious beliefs. A new tactic of zoning laws that prevent so called "sex shops" within 1000' of a church; conferring a government sanctioned special status to churches. Attempts to force governments to recognise the Creation Story as science in order to feed it to all children.

I supopose that I could be labled as intolorant when the "god card" is played in a discussion (often about abortion and homosexuality) because then there no further point in continuing the discussion. No other ideas or facts seem to have any weight if they are outside of god's will as it might be interpreted.

I have also found the merely expressing my belief that religion is a relic of man's ignorant past is construed as an attack on religion, and therefore, representitive of intolerance.

I feel that it is anybody's right to have religious beliefs and pattern their life after them. I also believe laws should be based on common sense with the goal of good order and security in our society. I freely admit to being intolerant of faith based laws.

Nicely put, my friend. :beer: (<-- beer not valid on Sundays, before noon)

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
I am completely tolerant of religion as long as no one uses it to restrict my freedoms. My biggest problem with religion is that people of faith seem always to want their views represented in law. There are "blue laws" restricting everything from shopping to buying booze on Sundays with the express purpose of not allowing alternatives to going to church. There have been, and still are in many cases, laws against oral and anal sex, based entirely on religious objections. Laws against prostitution and gambling came from religious beliefs. A new tactic of zoning laws that prevent so called "sex shops" within 1000' of a church; conferring a government sanctioned special status to churches. Attempts to force governments to recognise the Creation Story as science in order to feed it to all children.

I supopose that I could be labled as intolorant when the "god card" is played in a discussion (often about abortion and homosexuality) because then there no further point in continuing the discussion. No other ideas or facts seem to have any weight if they are outside of god's will as it might be interpreted.

I have also found the merely expressing my belief that religion is a relic of man's ignorant past is construed as an attack on religion, and therefore, representitive of intolerance.

I feel that it is anybody's right to have religious beliefs and pattern their life after them. I also believe laws should be based on common sense with the goal of good order and security in our society. I freely admit to being intolerant of faith based laws.

Nicely put, my friend. :beer: (<-- beer not valid on Sundays, before noon)

Yes, nice post Jack

:beer: (<-- beer not valid on Sundays, before noon

This ^^^ is more bullcrap as a result of Radical Right Wing Religous Fanaticals.

 

[CaptnKirk]

My Tolerant Religion will beat the Hell out of YOUR Intolerant Religion !

 

[piasabird]

The basic precept of Religion is a group of people with a common beleif. Everyone has some sort of a beleif system. Gays try to force their ideas and beleifs on people (Not all Gays do this).

Health Nuts want you to eat only what is on their diet and to oppose them means you are uneducated!

Skinny people believe all fat people are unacceptable.

People in the City dont like country people and vice versa.

In a recent poll 50% of people in the USA claimed to believe in God.

Rich Elitists from yale and harvard or California unviversities think they know what is best for the rest of the people and if we dont listen to them we are stupid ignorant hicks.

Jessee Jackson has some need to prove every african american on earth is suffering from racial discrimination even when it isnt the case. He invaded a School In Illinois to prove it. Some minorities are actually just guilty because they are criminals. I know this is a hot potato but just face the facts.

It is not wrong to express ones beleifs whether they are religious or secular. It is wrong to make laws which prohibit a persons right to worship or carry or own their religious materials.

The people that are close minded or out and out fanatics will probably not change their minds.

Social architects are just as dangerous as religious extremists.

Drugs are not the asnwer to all psychological problems.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
[
:beer: (<-- beer not valid on Sundays, before noon

This ^^^ is more bullcrap as a result of Radical Right Wing Religous Fanaticals.

I *gasp* agree. But I'm pretty sure it all stems back to some B.S. Puritan beliefs from long ago. The repression (especially sexual) of this country is pretty bad and is the source of quite a few of our society's problems, IMO.

Of course, *I'm* the nutcase for supporting the legalization of drugs and prostitution and calling for the dismissal of the FCC's "decency judging" powers, while those who cringe in fear over a nipple on television are the rational ones.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: piasabird
The basic precept of Religion is a group of people with a common beleif. Everyone has some sort of a beleif system. Gays try to force their ideas and beleifs on people (Not all Gays do this).

Health Nuts want you to eat only what is on their diet and to oppose them means you are uneducated!

Skinny people believe all fat people are unacceptable.

People in the City dont like country people and vice versa.

In a recent poll 50% of people in the USA claimed to believe in God.

Rich Elitists from yale and harvard or California unviversities think they know what is best for the rest of the people and if we dont listen to them we are stupid ignorant hicks.

Jessee Jackson has some need to prove every african american on earth is suffering from racial discrimination even when it isnt the case. He invaded a School In Illinois to prove it. Some minorities are actually just guilty because they are criminals. I know this is a hot potato but just face the facts.

It is not wrong to express ones beleifs whether they are religious or secular. It is wrong to make laws which prohibit a persons right to worship or carry or own their religious materials.

The people that are close minded or out and out fanatics will probably not change their minds.

Social architects are just as dangerous as religious extremists.

Drugs are not the asnwer to all psychological problems.

What have gays tried to do to lessen YOUR rights? Nothing. That was a very bad example. They try to get equal rights as everyone else, no more, no less.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Chadder007

Originally posted by: Todd33
Some religious people try to force their views on others. That chaps my hide. If they keep it to their self, out of the government and schools, I'm fine with Devil worship in private.

I see more NON religious people forcing their views down peoples throats than religous.

Proof of that please. BTW, history is not on your side here.

Soviet Union

The main target of the anti-religious campaign in the 1920s and 1930s was the Russian Orthodox Church, which had the largest number of faithful. Nearly all of its clergy, and many of its believers, were shot or sent to labor camps. Theological schools were closed, and church publications were prohibited. By 1939 only about 500 of over 50,000 churches remained open.

 

[digitalsm]

Its like politics. Do as I say not as I do.

 

[ericlp]

Maybe it's because the president we have NOW is trying to divide America ... One that is clearly for religion, Banning abortion, Trying to get one man, one Woman, law passed, Basically banning Stem Cell research in this country. Quoting the bible whenever he can. Etc?etc..

If you don't believe me? Just watch the Jesus Factor on frontline. It's free you can watch the entire show. Kerry might be religious but as it seems he isn't forcing it on any one that I know of anyway?.

 

[Rainsford]

I love how defensive some Christians get when someone wants them to keep their beliefs to themselves. They act like we're interfering with some right they have to force their religion on other people. Repeat after me, this is not "intolerance towards religion". Much of what is apparently viewed as intolerance is nothing more than people not wanted to have anything to do with your beliefs. And guess what, they shouldn't have to. We can all believe what we want, but when you try and force your beliefs on others, don't start bitching if they get a little angry about it.

Just as an example, I'm going to go to the local Catholic Church on Sunday and start talking about how their is no God and all Catholics are damned for believing in the wrong religion. We'll see how much tolerance I see then. Actually I won't do that, because we all know how it would turn out, and I wouldn't blame them. If you want to believe in whatever religion you choose, it is REQUIRED of you as a human being to extend the same rights to everyone else.

Honestly I'm always surprised when I hear things like this. Here at my school, the same Christian group that goes door to door in the dorms annoying people to "embrace Jesus" even after the person has told them they are not interested is constantly complaining that people aren't tolerant of Christians. Gee, I wonder why? Maybe that's because people expect tolerance to go both ways...if I don't see it from you, you better not expect it from me.

 

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Chadder007

Originally posted by: Todd33
Some religious people try to force their views on others. That chaps my hide. If they keep it to their self, out of the government and schools, I'm fine with Devil worship in private.

I see more NON religious people forcing their views down peoples throats than religous.

Examples?

Amendment to allow gay marriage
Roe vs. Wade
Removing "under God" from the pledge
Prohibiting prayer, or voluntary religious clubs, from schools

How many do you want?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Rob9874

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Chadder007

Originally posted by: Todd33
Some religious people try to force their views on others. That chaps my hide. If they keep it to their self, out of the government and schools, I'm fine with Devil worship in private.

I see more NON religious people forcing their views down peoples throats than religous.

Examples?

Amendment to allow gay marriage
Roe vs. Wade
Removing "under God" from the pledge
Prohibiting prayer, or voluntary religious clubs, from schools

How many do you want?

1) Civil rights...equal protection
2) Fighting back against religion. And, btw, abortion was already legal in many states when Roe v. Wade was decided.
3) Again, fighting back against the incursion of religion
4) Again, fighting back against the incursion of religion in government institutions.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Chadder007

Originally posted by: Todd33
Some religious people try to force their views on others. That chaps my hide. If they keep it to their self, out of the government and schools, I'm fine with Devil worship in private.

I see more NON religious people forcing their views down peoples throats than religous.

Yoo hoo??

Not going to back up your claims for the 2nd time in a week?

**crickets**

 

[jhu]

Originally posted by: Rob9874


Amendment to allow gay marriage
Roe vs. Wade
Removing "under God" from the pledge
Prohibiting prayer, or voluntary religious clubs, from schools

How many do you want?

1) has there been an amendmant to allow gay marriage? i thought the proposal was to forbid gay marriage in the constitution.

2) roe vs. wade does not force anyone to have an abortion.

3) as i recall, "under god" was added to the pledge nearly 50-60 years ago due to heightened religious ferver.

4) such activities are banned during school hours or school sanctioned events.

 

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: conjur

1) Civil rights...equal protection
2) Fighting back against religion. And, btw, abortion was already legal in many states when Roe v. Wade was decided.
3) Again, fighting back against the incursion of religion
4) Again, fighting back against the incursion of religion in government institutions.

I'm sure you have your justifications, but you asked for examples of NON Christian values being shoved down my throat. And "fighting back against religion" does not dispute an action being a non-Christian value. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. Just defining it as being non-Christian.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Rob9874

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Chadder007

Originally posted by: Todd33
Some religious people try to force their views on others. That chaps my hide. If they keep it to their self, out of the government and schools, I'm fine with Devil worship in private.

I see more NON religious people forcing their views down peoples throats than religous.

Examples?

Amendment to allow gay marriage
Roe vs. Wade
Removing "under God" from the pledge
Prohibiting prayer, or voluntary religious clubs, from schools

How many do you want?

I meant REAL examples, not examples dependant on something that doesn't have to do with them, i mean, They wouldn't have to marry a person of the same gender, would they? They would not HAVE to abort their children, would they? and they could still say under god, it is just not in the pledge.

When it comes to schools, that is only for public schools, is it not? And religion and government should never have anything to do with one another, should it?

So i mean REAL examples, i mean like prohibiting churces and such, well, you get my point i am sure.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Rob9874

Originally posted by: conjur

1) Civil rights...equal protection
2) Fighting back against religion. And, btw, abortion was already legal in many states when Roe v. Wade was decided.
3) Again, fighting back against the incursion of religion
4) Again, fighting back against the incursion of religion in government institutions.

I'm sure you have your justifications, but you asked for examples of NON Christian values being shoved down my throat. And "fighting back against religion" does not dispute an action being a non-Christian value. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. Just defining it as being non-Christian.

None of your examples qualify as anything being "shoved down your throat". Or are you honestly suggesting when society adopts non-Christian values you are being persecuted? Klixxer is correct, how about some REAL examples.

 

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

I meant REAL examples, not examples dependant on something that doesn't have to do with them, i mean, They wouldn't have to marry a person of the same gender, would they? They would not HAVE to abort their children, would they? and they could still say under god, it is just not in the pledge.

When it comes to schools, that is only for public schools, is it not? And religion and government should never have anything to do with one another, should it?

So i mean REAL examples, i mean like prohibiting churces and such, well, you get my point i am sure.

Well, you won't find examples of that. But how many examples can you give of secular actions that are prohibited because of Christian values? Usually, when a law comes into question over a Christian value, the secular side wins out (Roe vs. Wade). You can cite things like prohibiting gay marriage, but how can you prove that is solely based on a Christian value? The Bible also says "Thou shalt not murder," and because of that, Christians support a law against murder. But is murder illegal because of the whacko religious right? Or do you pick and choose which Christian values you agree with and which ones you don't?

 

[Steve Guilliot]

Amendment to allow gay marriage
Roe vs. Wade
Removing "under God" from the pledge
Prohibiting prayer, or voluntary religious clubs, from schools

How many do you want?

This whole topic goes to the heart of misunderstanding this:
Non-Christian is NOT Anti-Christian.

Some Christians are unwilling or unable to recognize this. I understand why, seeing as they are convinced they are right and everyone else must be wrong, leading to a "My way or the highway" sort of mindset.

Pretty simple, it seems.

 

[Grakatt]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Because Christianity is mainstream. Defending it would be tantamount to defending Britney Spears' music or Walmart.

Wow . . . that's harsh.

But it's somewaht true. Bashing religion is currently "cool," especially on the intarweb. I agree that many people have honest objections to organized religion and I can respect that, but their voices are typically drowned out by the vocal AOL 14-year-old's "LOL. Me 2! God sux0rs and I rox0rs for sayin it!"

I freely admit that it is quite possible that the reaason I defend religion at times is partly because of my counter-culture, underdog-supporting nature. If so, then that doesn't make me much better...

Can't be underdog and mainstream at the same time, can it?

Anyway, the only believing Christians I have ever seen are one of my grandmothers, one of my uncles (he is a bit funny though), and a couple of American mormons 'spreading the word' in a Gods-forsaken town in northern Sweden. They were called 'Sister Sermon' and 'Sister Whitaker', I think.

While some are married in a church, more than a fourth are typically married civilly(sp?), here, and I would say most people who get married by the Church do it merely because of tradition(which I personally think is wrong).

Yet there are so many people playing and agreeing with the general Black Metal messages that I can hardly take a step without bumping in to one of them.

Christians really seem like underdogs herearound..as it appears, there'll prolly be more muslims in a decade or two, thanks to immigration.

 

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: Steve Guilliot

Amendment to allow gay marriage
Roe vs. Wade
Removing "under God" from the pledge
Prohibiting prayer, or voluntary religious clubs, from schools

How many do you want?

This whole topic goes to the heart of misunderstanding this:
Non-Christian is NOT Anti-Christian.

I didn't read anyone asking for anti-Christian examples. Only non-Christian. However, if you're not for Christian values, you're against them.