Why are there rich people and poor people? (for a 4 year old)

[Thebobo]

Its easy comes down to one word

Greed.

 

[boomerang]

So what do you think, how would you explain the existence of rich and poor people to a reasonably intelligent 4 year old?

Just tell him that there are people called Democrats who benefit from keeping people poor. A four year old should be able to understand that.

 

[trenchfoot]

Just tell him that there are people called Democrats who benefit from keeping people poor. A four year old should be able to understand that.

And keep them out of public schools too, right?

Or better yet, have them home schooled by Rush Limbaugh, Ted Cruz and Sarah Palin. That must sound pretty good, don't it?

 

[Fern]

-snip-
So what do you think, how would you explain the existence of rich and poor people to a reasonably intelligent 4 year old?

The first lesson to my child was what IS "rich" and "poor".

There are different kinds of 'riches'. And, materially, what is rich for one person is poor for another.

Before you can know why something exists, you must understand what it is.

I have met/known many people who were not rich in a material sense, but were rich in other ways: quality of life, family, friends, happiness, experiences etc.

And I have met/known many people who were rich materially, but poor in every other sense.

Fern

 

[Victorian Gray]

Just tell him that there are people called Democrats who benefit from keeping people poor. A four year old should be able to understand that.

Why would you want him to lie to his kid? Doesn't seem like a good example for a father to set.

btw, Didn't you notice the straw falling out of the sleeves when you set that one on it's pole?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

We were dirt poor when I was 4 and I was not capable of comprehending what that meant, much less understand what rich meant. I think I was about 11 when I first realized the shame of being poor.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Newsflash - If you are retiring with "more than a few million" then you are the rich.

No wonder you don't know what to tell your kid.

So is someone who has a pension equivalent of investments in the millions also 'rich'?

There's going to be a LOT of teachers and professors you line up against the wall with your glorious revolution.

I have met/known many people who were not rich in a material sense, but were rich in other ways: quality of life, family, friends, happiness, experiences etc.

I think that's a really good insight.

 

[trenchfoot]

We were dirt poor when I was 4 and I was not capable of comprehending what that meant, much less understand what rich meant. I think I was about 11 when I first realized the shame of being poor.

+1 :thumbsup:

Being the #2 of 4, I got all the hand me downs, which pissed me off, so I used to sneak in to Pearl Harbor Shipyard and spit shined shoes and boots for the sailors and marines for a quarter/pr. back in the late 50's early 60's. I wore pretty good looking clothes after that.

 

[ivwshane]

People want to believe the rich get rich via hard work and in some cases that's true but in a lot of cases the rich got where they are by cheating or by exploiting others. Hell, even bill gates cheated to get ahead.

It's called reality and if you think life isn't fair then I'm not sure why you think people wouldn't cheat to get ahead.

It took me a long time to understand what people meant by this. It doesn't mean you're screwed no matter what you do. The true meaning of this phrase is that you're expected to cheat. Everyone else is cheating, so the only way to make the game fair is to cheat. Example: using steroids isn't cheating if everyone is using steroids. A movie phrase with a very similar meaning is "You should have killed me when you had the chance." The movie phrase is talking about fairness. You don't kill me, I don't kill you. That would be fair, but life isn't fair. You should have killed me when you had the chance.


Explaining rich and poor is very simple. Rich people get paid more. Why do they get paid more? There are millions of reasons. Some work harder, some of them get paid because they have friends and connections, some people invest their money (stocks and business), some people lend their money to others and charge interest (bonds). Some people are paid more because fewer people are capable of doing that job. Everyone can cook fries but not everyone can teach university level mathematics. Bill Gates is mostly rich through hard work. Putin is probably rich due to corruption, as are most of our own politicians. Politicians regularly do insider trading. They'll know ahead of time that a piece of legislation is a giant handout to a certain company or industry, and they front run that trade. They will also retire and work as "consultants" at the companies they gave tax money to.

You could always go the direction of modern economics and try telling him that capital is not the source of wealth. Don't save your money, don't buy stocks, don't buy bonds, don't start your own business. Use all of your money to buy cheap crap from China and somehow you'll magically get rich.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

^ again there's someone is Rich if they have net worth of a few million by the time they retire then almost everyone that's Rich got there by hard work and a little bit of luck.

 

[Jaepheth]

It's a product of probability, Strategy, and limited resources.

Once upon a time, all men were equal. Then, by luck, one person or group of people got a little bit more than the others. Using this surplus of resources, they were able to get more and more. Since resources are zero sum, them having more meant everyone else had less.

Fast forward a dozen or so millennia and you have our current state of affairs.


For a child, an analogy of Monopoly may be apt. Everyone starts off equal, but then chance starts to influence the players' fortunes. Someone wins the dice roll to go first, other dice rolls lands some players on the better properties, etc. Then, using basic strategies, you can press an advantage obtained through luck to become richer than the other players. A very good player may not need as much luck as another, but luck will beat skill every time.

A Texas Hold 'Em Tournament is another good analogy, or pretty much any game where players vie for control of limited resources (Risk, Settlers of Catan)

 

[Cozarkian]

HI,
Where he explains:

"It's like setting a jar of moonshine on the floor of a boxcar full of 10 hobos and saying, 'Now fight for it!' Sure, in the bloody aftermath you can say to each of the losers, 'Hey, you could have had it if you'd fought harder!; and that's true on an individual level. But not collectively -- you knew goddamned well that nine hobos weren't getting any hooch that night. So why are you acting like it's their fault that only one of them is drunk?".

That right there explains the answer - scarcity.

There was only one jar of moonshine, which wasn't enough to satisfy all 10 hobos. Had they shared, you would have 10 sober hobos who are all unsatisfied. Is that better than having one or two (2 hobos could have been smart and teamed up with an agreement to share) drunk and satisfied and the other 8 only slightly worse off than they would have been if everyone had shared?

The comment "even the poor had money" is actually applicable to the U.S. today. Our poor have cars, cell phones, internet, televisions, video games, microwaves, grills, heating and air conditioning, hot water, electricity, etc.... In short, our poor have luxuries equal to or beyond those imagined by the wealthiest individuals from one hundred+ years ago.

They system isn't perfect and some people still get unfairly screwed, but overall it has improved life for everyone, not just the rich and does a better job of creating the opportunity to become rich than many systems before it.

 

[Moonbeam]

I started this yesterday but had to save for later. Most interesting that this should come up with your son. I have made several posts on the subject in the last few days. There are two things that stand out from your post that I want to mention first, the obvious depth of your intellect, and the love you have for your son. He is already rich.

The first thing that I would want to try to address is the connection between poverty and fear, between wealth and ego, the emotional foundation on which real self respect is based, that wealth and poverty have little to do with money. That is probably why the hobbits are rich, the represent being here in the world full of the capacity to love all the natural joys of life open to folk not infected by self hate. To be rich is only a byproduct of mental health.

Here is a post I gave to a proponent of the notion that hard work and ambition are what make for wealth:
"Your viewpoint is so very limited. So let me tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your clothes, and what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds in the air: they don't work sow or save seeds and yet they are taken care of naturally. Are you not of more capable than they?

And what good is all your work going to do for you? Why strive for the good opinion of others. Just look at beautiful flowers. They didn't work to be that way. Look at a field of wheat. Today it is green and beautiful but tomorrow baked into bread. Weren't you born more beautiful than grass. No you do not trust in the things of life that matter but seek after personal gain, unaware of the infinite treasures you have. Know thyself first and you will neither toil or envy but cut through life like a hot knife through butter. You have fallen in love with the part of you that is most ugly, contempt for your neighbor's sins.
Do not worry about tomorrow until tomorrow gets here. To worry about tomorrow is not to be here today."
Perhaps you recognize that I just altered a bit the words of Jesus in Matthew 6.

Earlier in that same thread I posted this:
"Surely our system creates poor people naturally no?

How can you have economic competition without most people loosing the game. We have a dog eat dog winner take all system. My money would be worthless if everybody else had what I do. Why would I struggle to win if everybody gets what I have. To eliminate poverty would require a new kind of human being, one who wanted everybody to have what he has, one that would be happy with not too too much. Do any of you know what would happen to the oceans if the Chinese ate as much fish as the Japanese?

To cure poverty requires a revolution in consciousness and a total different system. The CBD for example, doesn't want anything to change. Maybe one day they will because China is going after our lunch. We are too spoiled by success to compete. It's going to be funny listening to American conservatives begging China for more socialism."
This notion that the problem is systemic never gets anything but rejection. Most people don't want to look at the matrix and see they have been co-opted by it, that they are willing slaves.
So in my opinion we are all born rather infinitely rich, as rich as the human ape can be. We were born with the potential to exist in a timeless state of being where the love we experience is the love we create. All that you can do then, to attempt to make your child rich is to preserve, as best you can, his natural gifts. It is, in my opinion, the destruction in childhood of the willingness to love, caused by put-downs and betrayal, that create poverty of spirit that leads to poor attitude toward life. It is this inner wealth, our creation in God's image, that is the only real source of real happiness. I believe that Christ willingly went up on the cross and gave His precioous life, so that others might be reborn in that promise and faith.

We are what we eat, so to speak, the result of the impacts of life we receive, So if I had a child with a curious mind I would want to expose him or her to as many good impacts as I could, as many positive impacts as I could that point to this hidden world, the human potential for God consciousness. In that regard there are a number of Sufi stories and works you could possible collect to offer your child. Two come to mind at the moment. Both are from the works of Idris Shah, the story of the Caravan of Dreams and the story of The Magical Horse. There is also a book of his that I think is great for kids. It's called World Tales.

Best Wishes, M

 

[spacejamz]

...but it implies that the Poor didn't Work just as hard.

So what you are saying is there is no such thing as poor person who doesn't work hard???

 

[Smoblikat]

Tell him life isn't always fair.

NO! That might hurt his feelings

Tell him he is a precious snowflake, anbd that he doesnt have to worry about rich/poor, the government will take care of him.

 

[Spungo]

NO! That might hurt his feelings

Tell him he is a precious snowflake, anbd that he doesnt have to worry about rich/poor, the government will take care of him.

Also tell him that deficits don't matter.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Thank you for the thoughts Moonbeam.

 

[silicon]

There must be poor people so that we may know what is rich? Just as the concept of good and bad they both must exist so we can understand them.

 

[IronWing]

There are people who make. We call them poor. There are people who take what the poor people have made. We call them rich.

 

[sandorski]

So what you are saying is there is no such thing as poor person who doesn't work hard???

No

 

[MongGrel]

I started this yesterday but had to save for later. Most interesting that this should come up with your son. I have made several posts on the subject in the last few days. There are two things that stand out from your post that I want to mention first, the obvious depth of your intellect, and the love you have for your son. He is already rich.

Best Wishes, M

Every now and then, Moonbeam just knocks one out of the ballpark.

Good post, I wasn't going to copy it all again

 

[werepossum]

The first lesson to my child was what IS "rich" and "poor".

There are different kinds of 'riches'. And, materially, what is rich for one person is poor for another.

Before you can know why something exists, you must understand what it is.

I have met/known many people who were not rich in a material sense, but were rich in other ways: quality of life, family, friends, happiness, experiences etc.

And I have met/known many people who were rich materially, but poor in every other sense.

Fern

That's an excellent point.

We were dirt poor when I was 4 and I was not capable of comprehending what that meant, much less understand what rich meant. I think I was about 11 when I first realized the shame of being poor.

I too. At four, our bathroom was through the garden and across the ravine. I watched my parents volunteer for extra work, and more importantly extra responsibilities, and we went from dirt poor to respectably middle class even though neither parent had a day of college. (And my mother ended up Financial Director of the County.) I don't think I ever felt any shame though; poor was just something a LOT of kids were. And since we were always able to contribute to the food drives for the poor - might have been potatoes, but always something - I never really thought we were poor. Poor wasn't people who didn't have televisions or indoor toilets, poor was people who had to have charity to eat. Only shame I ever saw in poverty was for those kids whose parents just wouldn't work.

It's a product of probability, Strategy, and limited resources.

Once upon a time, all men were equal. Then, by luck, one person or group of people got a little bit more than the others. Using this surplus of resources, they were able to get more and more. Since resources are zero sum, them having more meant everyone else had less.

Fast forward a dozen or so millennia and you have our current state of affairs.

For a child, an analogy of Monopoly may be apt. Everyone starts off equal, but then chance starts to influence the players' fortunes. Someone wins the dice roll to go first, other dice rolls lands some players on the better properties, etc. Then, using basic strategies, you can press an advantage obtained through luck to become richer than the other players. A very good player may not need as much luck as another, but luck will beat skill every time.

A Texas Hold 'Em Tournament is another good analogy, or pretty much any game where players vie for control of limited resources (Risk, Settlers of Catan)

Monopoly would be a horrible example, because we DON'T start with the same thing. Some kids are born to rich folks; some kids are born to parents who wouldn't strike a lick at a snake and have to beg someone else just to afford to pay attention. Some kids are born smart, and some are born slow. The smart kids have a much easier time than the slow kids, and the rich kids have a much, much easier time than the poor kids. Likening life to Monopoly risks a poor kid looking around and deciding the game is already lost - or a rich kid looking around and deciding the game is already won.

DixyCrat, I think you handled it about as well as could be at his age. And congrats on your success.

 

[werepossum]

I started this yesterday but had to save for later. Most interesting that this should come up with your son. I have made several posts on the subject in the last few days. There are two things that stand out from your post that I want to mention first, the obvious depth of your intellect, and the love you have for your son. He is already rich.

SNIP

Best Wishes, M

Beautiful, Moonie.

 

[Zorkorist]

I would explain it this way....rich people can be born to this life just as poor people can be born to a life of poverty. Sometimes it is only circumstance that will decide the rich and the poor. But that never prevents anyone from trying to improve their lot thru, hard work, education and associating with successful individuals. Often a person can become too cynical or to proud to move to a better position in life. So while the USA provides the most chance in life for those looking to climb the ladder there are many countries where you are locked into the a specific lot in life.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Good post.

-John

 

[lamedude]

South Parks' answer.

KYLE: Well how come Kenny's family eats frozen waffles for dinner and has rats on the floor, and we have a big house and lots of food?
KYLE'S FATHER: Well, because Kenny's family doesn't have as much money as we do.
KYLE: But why? If they're hungry and poor, why don't we just always give them half of our food?
KYLE'S FATHER: Ha ha ha ha ha! Ooh-ho boy, have you got a lot to learn! Sit down, son. You see, Kyle, we humans work as a society, and in order for a society to thrive, we need gods, and clods.
KYLE: Gods and clods?
KYLE'S FATHER: Yes. You see, I spent a lot of time going to law school, and I was able to go because I have a slightly higher intellect than others. But I still need people to pump my gas, and make my French fries, and fix my laundry machine when it breaks down.
KYLE: Oooohh, I see. Gods and clods!
KYLE'S FATHER: That's right. So Kenny's family is happy just the way they are, and we're all a functioning part of America.