Why are there Obama haters?

[Vic]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Vic, Obama has already openly stated he wants to repeal the capital gains and other tax cuts.

That equals = raising taxes and taking more of your money.

Just like symbolically "lowering" taxes while simultaneously drastically increasing spending means taking even more of my money.

You can't scare me with the same old tired rhetoric. The first rule of libertarian and captialist philosophies is that There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Yet that's where your own entitlement mentality begins, believing that you should have a right to big government without having to pay for it. Have the expensive War in Iraq, have the corporate subsidies and tax breaks, get the laws strengthen and/or re-written in your economic favor... just so long as you don't have to pay for it.
From my perspective, you're worse than the worst welfare mother, because you actually could pay for the government that you want, you just won't.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: JS80

This is why straight democracy doesn't work. 51% votes to take from the other 49%. There should be income and property ownership requirements to vote or give property owners supervoting powers.

Anyone else seriously creeped out by this line of thought? What country do you think you live in?

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JS80

This is why straight democracy doesn't work. 51% votes to take from the other 49%. There should be income and property ownership requirements to vote or give property owners supervoting powers.

Anyone else seriously creeped out by this line of thought? What country do you think you live in?

I'm just saddened by it.

Because this person can vote.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Svnla
Hate? Not me.

I just don't believe like BO's believers that he will solve all our problems if he becomes the next president of the US.

Just to say "let change" won't change a darn thing if you don't willing/want to do the hard parts ..ie. solve the HUGE problem of SS, Medicare, economy, terrorist, just to name a few.

To me, he is just another politician from the other party <different name, same old ways of doing things>.

I can't understand people like you, or let's just say I understand you better than you do.

How on earth could you believe Obama won't solve all of our problems. How naive can you be. Obama is a magician and controls manna from heaven. Open your stupid eyes. He has all the answers and has promised to save all mankind.

This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.
- The Messiah Barack Obama accepting the coronation of the Associated Press as President

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JS80

This is why straight democracy doesn't work. 51% votes to take from the other 49%. There should be income and property ownership requirements to vote or give property owners supervoting powers.

Anyone else seriously creeped out by this line of thought? What country do you think you live in?

I'm just saddened by it.

Because this person can vote.

We do not live in a straight democracy for good reason. Our Founding Fathers were all good students of history and decided to do all they could to protect us from that. They were scared that straight democracy would just turn into mob rule.

edit: In fact AFAIK no free country in the world is a straight democracy.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JS80

This is why straight democracy doesn't work. 51% votes to take from the other 49%. There should be income and property ownership requirements to vote or give property owners supervoting powers.

Anyone else seriously creeped out by this line of thought? What country do you think you live in?

I'm just saddened by it.

Because this person can vote.

We do not live in a straight democracy for good reason. Our Founding Fathers were all good students of history and decided to do all they could to protect us from that. They were scared that straight democracy would just turn into mob rule.

edit: In fact AFAIK no free country in the world is a straight democracy.

So what you're saying is that you support a system in which democracy is dictated by personal or family wealth instead of the rule of law?

Because Our Founding Fathers supported the system of the rule of law.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JS80

This is why straight democracy doesn't work. 51% votes to take from the other 49%. There should be income and property ownership requirements to vote or give property owners supervoting powers.

Anyone else seriously creeped out by this line of thought? What country do you think you live in?

I'm just saddened by it.

Because this person can vote.

We do not live in a straight democracy for good reason. Our Founding Fathers were all good students of history and decided to do all they could to protect us from that. They were scared that straight democracy would just turn into mob rule.

edit: In fact AFAIK no free country in the world is a straight democracy.

Right, but you are confusing a representative democracy with some sort of turn towards a voting aristocracy as JS80 is proposing. The correct barriers that they implemented to avoid mob rule were the separation of powers, the senate, things like that. Barriers to voting based on property never factored in.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Vic, Obama has already openly stated he wants to repeal the capital gains and other tax cuts.

That equals = raising taxes and taking more of your money.

He must stuff his money in muni bonds so he doesn't care

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JS80

This is why straight democracy doesn't work. 51% votes to take from the other 49%. There should be income and property ownership requirements to vote or give property owners supervoting powers.

Anyone else seriously creeped out by this line of thought? What country do you think you live in?

I'm just saddened by it.

Because this person can vote.

We do not live in a straight democracy for good reason. Our Founding Fathers were all good students of history and decided to do all they could to protect us from that. They were scared that straight democracy would just turn into mob rule.

edit: In fact AFAIK no free country in the world is a straight democracy.

So what you're saying is that you support a system in which democracy is dictated by personal or family wealth instead of the rule of law?

Because Our Founding Fathers supported the system of the rule of law.

Where exactly did I say that I supported a "system in which democracy is dictated by personal or family wealth instead of the rule of law"

*sigh* Read a book on basic political theory in the United States.

WE ARE NOT, and I repeat NOT, a "straight democracy". We never where. We are a Republic.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Kappo
Could this same statement be applied to the "changes" movement you guys are promoting so much?

And yes, it WILL change. The MINUTE people realize that they can vote themselves ways to be lazy instead of working, that is what will happen. We will have 2 options at some point :

1) No one works. We become a 3rd world country.
2) People start taking responsibility for their OWN problems, dealing with their OWN issues, and trying harder.

Im willing to wager that I DONATE (this is MY choice) more money, time and goods than you ever will in a lifetime. When I do things like that, I am making the choice to do so. Since you are apparently anti-freedom, I think this concept is escaping you. To bad our entire country was founded on the idea of freedom....

Who needs to move again?

AMEN.

I think those calling for the government to "fix" things and society to "band together" forget what this country was founded on. Freedom and liberty. Not communism and socialism. It's downright scary to see some of the posts in this thread and see how people really don't want to take responsibility and feel entitled. Scary.

This is why straight democracy doesn't work. 51% votes to take from the other 49%. There should be income and property ownership requirements to vote or give property owners supervoting powers.

Because slaves should only be counted as 3/5th of a person? :roll:

DIAF, fascist. If a person is to be taxed, then they get to vote. That's how this country was founded. Oversight of democracy occurs through the checks and balances of the rule of law, not the rule of privilege. Once again, that's how this country was founded, and that is the law as established in this country's Constitution.

edit: re your PM, Spidey, here is what you're supporting and calling libertarian/capitalism. The notion that poor people shouldn't even be allowed to vote. Nothing could be more contrary to basic libertarian/capitalist ideals.

Since poor people and welfare milkers don't pay federal taxes, so they should not get to vote then?

Democracy fails when the checks in place (Congress and Judges) stray away from the Constitution and make it a "living document" so to impose their ideology.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Kappo
Could this same statement be applied to the "changes" movement you guys are promoting so much?

And yes, it WILL change. The MINUTE people realize that they can vote themselves ways to be lazy instead of working, that is what will happen. We will have 2 options at some point :

1) No one works. We become a 3rd world country.
2) People start taking responsibility for their OWN problems, dealing with their OWN issues, and trying harder.

Im willing to wager that I DONATE (this is MY choice) more money, time and goods than you ever will in a lifetime. When I do things like that, I am making the choice to do so. Since you are apparently anti-freedom, I think this concept is escaping you. To bad our entire country was founded on the idea of freedom....

Who needs to move again?

AMEN.

I think those calling for the government to "fix" things and society to "band together" forget what this country was founded on. Freedom and liberty. Not communism and socialism. It's downright scary to see some of the posts in this thread and see how people really don't want to take responsibility and feel entitled. Scary.

This is why straight democracy doesn't work. 51% votes to take from the other 49%. There should be income and property ownership requirements to vote or give property owners supervoting powers.

wow dude you got some problems if you cant see perpetual wealth and privilege coming out of that kinda system.

i can't even imagine a scenario where original homesteaders would ever sell land to peasants like us, if homesteading was ever allowed in the first place.

That's why i said INCOME AND PROPERTY ownership. TAX PAYERS, not TAKERS should be given supervoting powers. Tax takers should be given regular voting powers.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: JS80

That's why i said INCOME AND PROPERTY ownership. TAX PAYERS, not TAKERS should be given supervoting powers. Tax takers should be given regular voting powers.

This is a well thought out plan not rooted in ignorance.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JS80

This is why straight democracy doesn't work. 51% votes to take from the other 49%. There should be income and property ownership requirements to vote or give property owners supervoting powers.

Anyone else seriously creeped out by this line of thought? What country do you think you live in?

I'm just saddened by it.

Because this person can vote.

We do not live in a straight democracy for good reason. Our Founding Fathers were all good students of history and decided to do all they could to protect us from that. They were scared that straight democracy would just turn into mob rule.

edit: In fact AFAIK no free country in the world is a straight democracy.

So what you're saying is that you support a system in which democracy is dictated by personal or family wealth instead of the rule of law?

Because Our Founding Fathers supported the system of the rule of law.

Where exactly did I say that I supported a "system in which democracy is dictated by personal or family wealth instead of the rule of law"

*sigh* Read a book on basic political theory in the United States.

WE ARE NOT, and I repeat NOT, a "straight democracy". We never where. We are a Republic.

I asked you a question about what you supported. Please answer it, not feign outrage as a duhversion.

And yes, I know we are not "straight democracy," we are Constitutional Republic founded on the concept of the Rule of Law. You are arguing straw men by pretending I said otherwise.

 

[JS80]

You need assholes like me to counter the assholes on the Left and hope we land somewhere in the middle.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JS80
Since poor people and welfare milkers don't pay federal taxes, so they should not get to vote then?

Democracy fails when the checks in place (Congress and Judges) stray away from the Constitution and make it a "living document" so to impose their ideology.

Poor people pay a considerable amount in taxes, local, state, and federal. Maybe not always in income taxes, but in Social Security, and the multitude of excise and use taxes hidden in about everything.

Get over yourself, as you are the one here in this thread trying to change the Constitution, in particular here the 14th and 15th amendments.

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JS80

This is why straight democracy doesn't work. 51% votes to take from the other 49%. There should be income and property ownership requirements to vote or give property owners supervoting powers.

Anyone else seriously creeped out by this line of thought? What country do you think you live in?

I don't like the fact that people who pay little or no taxes have more voice in how the money is spent than the people who are paying the taxes.

I would be fine with a system where you had to actually pay federal taxes in order to vote in a federal election. People who don't pay taxes or who get it all back in a refund could still vote in state and local elections, where they probably at least pay some slaes tax or something.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JS80

This is why straight democracy doesn't work. 51% votes to take from the other 49%. There should be income and property ownership requirements to vote or give property owners supervoting powers.

Anyone else seriously creeped out by this line of thought? What country do you think you live in?

I don't like the fact that people who pay little or no taxes have more voice in how the money is spent than the people who are paying the taxes.

I would be fine with a system where you had to actually pay federal taxes in order to vote in a federal election. People who don't pay taxes or who get it all back in a refund could still vote in state and local elections, where they probably at least pay some slaes tax or something.

This is an awful idea that will very quickly lead to a disenfranchised underclass with no stake in the political system. It would be destabilizing and tyrannical.

 

[RY62]

You can't hate Obama. You can't even disagree with him. He's been manufactured so that anything you're for, he's for it too! Anything you're against... he's against it!

That's the purpose of threads like this, to educate you that you really LOVE Obama.:heart:

Obama is all things to all people!

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JS80

This is why straight democracy doesn't work. 51% votes to take from the other 49%. There should be income and property ownership requirements to vote or give property owners supervoting powers.

Anyone else seriously creeped out by this line of thought? What country do you think you live in?

I don't like the fact that people who pay little or no taxes have more voice in how the money is spent than the people who are paying the taxes.

I would be fine with a system where you had to actually pay federal taxes in order to vote in a federal election. People who don't pay taxes or who get it all back in a refund could still vote in state and local elections, where they probably at least pay some slaes tax or something.

That is a bad idea. Every citizen should get 1 vote, but payers should get like 1.2 votes. It is ridiculous the imbalance of power of the idle citizen vs the middle class vs the ultra-rich, where the middle class have no say in anything, the idle class have mob voting power vs their contribution to society (or lackthereof) and the ultra-rich who don't pay shit anyway through their trusts and loopholes.

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JS80

This is why straight democracy doesn't work. 51% votes to take from the other 49%. There should be income and property ownership requirements to vote or give property owners supervoting powers.

Anyone else seriously creeped out by this line of thought? What country do you think you live in?

I don't like the fact that people who pay little or no taxes have more voice in how the money is spent than the people who are paying the taxes.

I would be fine with a system where you had to actually pay federal taxes in order to vote in a federal election. People who don't pay taxes or who get it all back in a refund could still vote in state and local elections, where they probably at least pay some slaes tax or something.

This is an awful idea that will very quickly lead to a disenfranchised underclass with no stake in the political system. It would be destabilizing and tyrannical.

Yeah, heaven forbid they had to get a job and contribute something.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JS80

This is why straight democracy doesn't work. 51% votes to take from the other 49%. There should be income and property ownership requirements to vote or give property owners supervoting powers.

Anyone else seriously creeped out by this line of thought? What country do you think you live in?

I don't like the fact that people who pay little or no taxes have more voice in how the money is spent than the people who are paying the taxes.

I would be fine with a system where you had to actually pay federal taxes in order to vote in a federal election. People who don't pay taxes or who get it all back in a refund could still vote in state and local elections, where they probably at least pay some slaes tax or something.

Please explain how poor people have "more voice" in government. I was unaware they could afford lobbyists and the like.

And everyone (who doesn't live off the land in a cabin in the mountains) pays taxes. Let me provide a simple illustration of the economics behind this. Suppose government collected no taxes whatsoever and funded itself simply by adding the money needed for its budget into circulation (and this is theoretically possible BTW). The resulting inflation would then be the burden of taxation on the people. There is no free lunch.

Anyway, what you 2 are talking about was once a common practice that has been unconstitutional for ~150 years. For exactly the reason I'm talking about. Everyone pays taxes. Another example, it was once felt that only landowners should get to vote because they paid property taxes. But then people realized that renters pay their landlord's property taxes with their rent...

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: RY62
You can't hate Obama. You can't even disagree with him. He's been manufactured so that anything you're for, he's for it too! Anything you're against... he's against it!

That's the purpose of threads like this, to educate you that you really LOVE Obama.:heart:

Obama is all things to all people!

Actually, it's easy to prove that you're wrong with this, because he's not for the poll tax voter system you just proposed.

But hey, keep trolling nonsense. The truth is not that Obama gets such unconditional support, it's that a lot of his haters are really fsckin rabid and nonsensical. I'm waiting for the "Don't vote for Obama, he puts his pants on one leg at a time" troll thread.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JS80

This is why straight democracy doesn't work. 51% votes to take from the other 49%. There should be income and property ownership requirements to vote or give property owners supervoting powers.

Anyone else seriously creeped out by this line of thought? What country do you think you live in?

I don't like the fact that people who pay little or no taxes have more voice in how the money is spent than the people who are paying the taxes.

I would be fine with a system where you had to actually pay federal taxes in order to vote in a federal election. People who don't pay taxes or who get it all back in a refund could still vote in state and local elections, where they probably at least pay some slaes tax or something.

This is an awful idea that will very quickly lead to a disenfranchised underclass with no stake in the political system. It would be destabilizing and tyrannical.

Yeah, heaven forbid they had to get a job and contribute something.

And what about those who are unemployed and/or disabled through no fault of their own?

"Sorry, guy, you got laid off, you don't get to vote."

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: RY62
You can't hate Obama. You can't even disagree with him. He's been manufactured so that anything you're for, he's for it too! Anything you're against... he's against it!

That's the purpose of threads like this, to educate you that you really LOVE Obama.:heart:

Obama is all things to all people!

EVERYONE LOOK OUT! PEOPLE ACTUALLY LIKE A POLITICAL CANDIDATE! AHHHHH

 

[mxyzptlk]

I don't understand how arrive at the conclusion that the votes of people who don't pay tax somehow count for more than the votes of the people who do pay taxes. Every citizen should get 1 vote. How much you pay in taxes seems largely irrelevant.