Wouldn't it make much more sense to have the planes send that information out to towers or whatever live rather than keep it on the plane? I mean sure keep them there as backup, but if they just sent the information out live we would know all the details already. Considering the circumstances, we may never find the boxes from the WTC planes...
Why are there even black boxes?
- Thread starter piku
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RedRooster
Diamond Member
- Sep 14, 2000
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They probably don't want that classified information being broadcast all willy nilly throughout the airwaves for whomever to pick up. Wireless encryption is nearly impossible, I've learned from networking experience. 
Thats a good point...I'm suprised they havent done that. Real-time transmission would be alot better, and yeild quicker results than having to search for the black boxes. They should do that and keep a black box on board, just incase the plane looses communications or something...And I think that they should have microphones all over the planes and have them transmitted to a central location, and recordered...and being monitored real-time...that way if anything happens and the terrorists prevent the pilots from reporting anything, that the control place would know about the hijacking or whatever emergency.
Because thats a logistical nightmare.
4,000 planes at once, sending out a ton of data.....to where?
Who's listening? Or is it all being archived? How is it even being transmitted? Especially considering its coming from a few miles in the sky?
Not to mention those signals can be tampered with etc....
The black box is the only current feasable way.
However, why the boxes themselves dont make themselves easier to locate is beyond me....
4,000 planes at once, sending out a ton of data.....to where?
Who's listening? Or is it all being archived? How is it even being transmitted? Especially considering its coming from a few miles in the sky?
Not to mention those signals can be tampered with etc....
The black box is the only current feasable way.
However, why the boxes themselves dont make themselves easier to locate is beyond me....
Because you're talking about large amounts of data. Wireless LAN is currently only at 11 mbps, over the distances required for airliners it would be much, much slower.
You're recording enough information to establish a plane's exact orientation in three dimensional space, it's speed, everything.
Not to mention the number of flights daily (36-40K), the number of planes in the air at once, security, etc.
It's better to have it recorded locally.
Viper GTS
You're recording enough information to establish a plane's exact orientation in three dimensional space, it's speed, everything.
Not to mention the number of flights daily (36-40K), the number of planes in the air at once, security, etc.
It's better to have it recorded locally.
Viper GTS
There is a definite lack of high tech equipment being utilized by airlines. The standard black box is one old POS technology. You can thank the penny-pinching attitude of the airlines for this.
Odd - Why do you say that wireless encryption is nearly impossible? What keeps you from applying all the same encryption you normally would to the data, and then send it via wireless?!? Maybe a lot of overhead, but.... ?
<< Wouldn't it make much more sense to have the planes send that information out to towers or whatever live... >>
That would require infrastructure, including broadcast spectrum allocation, that does not presently exist. To be most effective, it would have to be in place world wide.
That would require infrastructure, including broadcast spectrum allocation, that does not presently exist. To be most effective, it would have to be in place world wide.
RedRooster
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Odd - Why do you say that wireless encryption is nearly impossible? What keeps you from applying all the same encryption you normally would to the data, and then send it via wireless?!? Maybe a lot of overhead, but.... ?
It's just how radio signals are sent. Radio signals nearly CANNOT be encrypted entirely. Infrared and such, more point to point technologies can be encrypted easier, but it's just an inherent disability of radio that disallows it.
It's just how radio signals are sent. Radio signals nearly CANNOT be encrypted entirely. Infrared and such, more point to point technologies can be encrypted easier, but it's just an inherent disability of radio that disallows it.
I'm pretty sure that overseas flights have "homing" devices in the black box, so they can be found. I'm not sure about domestic flights.
Heck yeah...
its an impossible thing to do...and if if possible will be at an extream cost.
and hey while they at that why not put some in our homes and offices and every public place, then we can all have fun living like the reality shows on TV for safety sake.
its an impossible thing to do...and if if possible will be at an extream cost.
and hey while they at that why not put some in our homes and offices and every public place, then we can all have fun living like the reality shows on TV for safety sake.
RedRooster
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what exactly is recorded on a black box anyway? just transmissions?
I think there's two on each plane. One for communications, both within plane and to airports. And one is for telemetry.
I think there's two on each plane. One for communications, both within plane and to airports. And one is for telemetry.
Best kept on the box, if the ability to transmit goes south with a plane problem the box can still tell all.
there is no reason why this can't be accomplished. Has to do with cost probably more than anything else.
about the security - how do you think our military communicates with its troops? encrypted wireless digital voice/data. It is relatively easy to strongly encrypt radio transmissions.
about the security - how do you think our military communicates with its troops? encrypted wireless digital voice/data. It is relatively easy to strongly encrypt radio transmissions.
BrunoPuntzJones
Lifer
- Feb 24, 2001
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<< what exactly is recorded on a black box anyway? just transmissions?
I think there's two on each plane. One for communications, both within plane and to airports. And one is for telemetry. >>
yeah the black box records: location, altitude, speed, bank, pitch, etc (probably things like engine temp, oil pressure, etc). the voice recorder does all of the transmitting (it may be inside the black box, i dont know if it's seperate or not).
i think bigdee2003 made a good post
Not to mention it's easier to intercept a wirelessly transmitted data and it's also less reliable.
I believe that the black box is located at the back of the plane to record as much data as possible in case of a plane crash. There was an exception to this in a crash in Korea because the plane "split" into two pieces and the transmission stopped a bit earlier than the investigators hoped to have stopped.
I believe that the black box is located at the back of the plane to record as much data as possible in case of a plane crash. There was an exception to this in a crash in Korea because the plane "split" into two pieces and the transmission stopped a bit earlier than the investigators hoped to have stopped.
<< Because you're talking about large amounts of data. Wireless LAN is currently only at 11 mbps, over the distances required for airliners it would be much, much slower. >>
If they needed that much bandwidth there wouldn't be enough room to do it locally either... what, do you think these boxes have terabyte hard drives in them?
I assumed it would just be cost. Though I'm sure a sattelite system or something would work out, it doesn't have to be specifically radio.
Black boxes include all the cockpit conversation up to 30 minutes before impact. This communication is not only the communication which is transmitted to the air traffic control but real cockpit conversation (off-air).
Also, all positions of Thrust levers, aileron positions, rudder positions, Attitude Indicator and other critical data is recorded at regular interval.
The blackbox (which is orange) also includes an ELT (Emergency Locator Transmitter), which continually sends out a specific signal which can be homed-in on.
Altogether, should both black boxes be intact it is possible to reconstruct the (most of the time) accident.
As far as transmitting all that continually goes, there's no need and no practical application to do so.
The Air Traffic Control have tape of all on-air communication on the ground.
Hellblast
(P.S. Please rate me if you have time)
Also, all positions of Thrust levers, aileron positions, rudder positions, Attitude Indicator and other critical data is recorded at regular interval.
The blackbox (which is orange) also includes an ELT (Emergency Locator Transmitter), which continually sends out a specific signal which can be homed-in on.
Altogether, should both black boxes be intact it is possible to reconstruct the (most of the time) accident.
As far as transmitting all that continually goes, there's no need and no practical application to do so.
The Air Traffic Control have tape of all on-air communication on the ground.
Hellblast
(P.S. Please rate me if you have time)
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