Why are Most People Still Recommending the 4870?

[BF04]

Good read on the thread. I am trying to decide between both cards as I am building 2 systems for wife and friend. The main game will be Warhammer online. Does anyone know if they will use Physix? I am leaning towards the 4870 since It will stay at stock and no OCing.
They both want to be able to play at max settings with tons of people during PvP with no slow downs.

Do you think the 4870 would be the good choice or the 260 with more memory?


Thanks

 

[airhendrix13]

Originally posted by: BF04
Good read on the thread. I am trying to decide between both cards as I am building 2 systems for wife and friend. The main game will be Warhammer online. Does anyone know if they will use Physix? I am leaning towards the 4870 since It will stay at stock and no OCing.
They both want to be able to play at max settings with tons of people during PvP with no slow downs.

Do you think the 4870 would be the good choice or the 260 with more memory?


Thanks

What resolutions will you run at?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: taltamir
all those things are proven, not unproven. They just matter less to some. Making an informative choice is the key. know how much it is worth to you compared to the other card, see how much it sells for in your country, and buy the one that is the better deal.

I agree, get what you like at a decent price and enjoy.

Reasons for buying fantasy gaming equipment is based on the subjective ... so only serious if you have a vested interest in selling the stuff.

All these threads are kind of a moot point, because how many of us are actually going to be convinced by anyone else?

Ronnn, even if I didn't get my cards free, I doubt you posting "The HD4870 is 13-18%% faster at 8XAA" is going to change my mind.

Likewise, me posting "PhysX is the stuff!" may well not sway you.

People read the same reviews, have their prejudices about which company they deem the more "ethical", which fans they'd rather associate/align themselves with, and have the limitations of their pocketbooks as well- and that's how people like the common posters on these forums buy.

People like you and me discuss which features are "better" on the pretense of "making sure people have good buying advice", but at the end of the day we're just hobbyists who like to debate facets of our hobby.

The only people who learn anything on these forums are those who didn't know the same stuff we all largely know, and they'd best pick the points which seem relevant to them and verify what's written on independent review sites like this one. (and they'd better pick several because reviewers are human as well and subject to all of the above in different degrees)

 

[BF04]

1280x1050 - dell 20wide screen lcd.


true about the cards.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BF04
1280x1050 - dell 20wide screen lcd.


true about the cards.

16x10

and it really doesn't matter which one .. toss a coin

or decide which features you like

i went with AMD because i paid under MSRP on launch day when the 260/280 were over priced. Now, if i were getting a new card; when Nvidia cards are reasonable - it would be between 280 and 4870 - with a view to multi-GPU
-since i need a new MB it could have gone either way .. now it will be an X3 solution.

 

[Wreckage]

Moral of the thread is, with the hype long since past on the 4870 and the 260 dropping in price with free PhysX there is no reason to recommend the 4870.

 

[taltamir]

unless of course, it is actually cheaper in your country... not everyone lives in the glorious USA

 

[GundamSonicZeroX]

Another Positive: Linux drivers on the CD.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: taltamir
unless of course, it is actually cheaper in your country... not everyone lives in the glorious USA

They don't? We'll have to fix that

Yes if the 260 is prohibitively expensive in your country compared to the 4870 then by all means snap one up.

Both of em are good cards, but as this is a tech forum it is our duty to argue those tiny little details in between.

Originally posted by: GundamSonicZeroX
Another Positive: Linux drivers on the CD.

:thumbsup:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Moral of the thread is, with the hype long since past on the 4870 and the 260 dropping in price with free PhysX there is no reason to recommend the 4870.

not for an Nvidia fan to recommend 4870
-we already know

the 4870 has plenty to recommend it to others with an open mind

now what was the MSRP of that GT260 just one month ago?
- changing times require keeping up

Now how could anyone go wrong with either card? Unless it doesn't fit?
:laugh:

 

[ZimZum]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Moral of the thread is, with the hype long since past on the 4870 and the 260 dropping in price with free PhysX there is no reason to recommend the 4870.

Except for the fact that its faster than the 260.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: ZimZum

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Moral of the thread is, with the hype long since past on the 4870 and the 260 dropping in price with free PhysX there is no reason to recommend the 4870.

Except for the fact that its faster than the 260.

faster in more games then it is slower in.

and what does MSRP have to do with price? street price is what matters.

Anyways. Look at which games are won by each card, that will also matter because different people have different game preferences.

If age of conan is a huge game for you, then the GTX260 takes priority. (as an mmo, it could very well be a major time sink for certain players)
If stalker is a biggie for you, then the GTX260 is 2.2x the speed of the 4870 (119% percent faster)
if you play tons of company of heroes then the 4870 dominates with a 2.75x the speed (175% faster).
(all those figures are min FPS @ 1920x1200).

If you are looking for something for a variety of games, buy whichever is cheaper in your country.

 

[airhendrix13]

IMO this is definitely one of the closest card to card races I have seen. It's crazy how tight competition can change how a company performs. When the 4850 and 4870 hit, Nvidia really had to take off their pants and reevaluate the size of their e-peen. Now prices are the most reasonable I have seen in a long time.

I'm thinking I'm going to get the GTX 260, even though Nvidia has been pissing me off as of late, but it's not because I want to benefit Nvidia, but because I want to benefit myself. Also, I have my 8800GTS here and I think it would look great in my x4 PCI-E slot for PhysX.

 

[btdvox]

Originally posted by: airhendrix13

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: airhendrix13

Originally posted by: tvdang7
the 4870 does benifit from overclocking. the problem is all the sites have CCC cap and cant reach the full potential but most people are hiting like 825+ on the core using the amd overclock tool.

Do you have any benchmarks for that? I'd like to see how OCing affects the cards performance.

the CCC O/C only allows my 4870 to get to the "safe" 790/1100

it is about a +3% FPS improvement over stock [generally/roughly in a few games; maybe less - not impressive, but the core needs a higher OC to make a bigger difference]

i have RivaTuner that can OC further, but i haven't pushed the core yet; my temps - admittedly high to start with; only went up +2C at max CCC o/c.

So i have hope for more and i will let you know tonight how far she goes.


The reason i picked HD4870 was because i got it at launch and i want to play with Crossfire X3 [by adding a 4870x2]

BTW, the Sapphire box actually ENCOURAGES "max O/C'ing"
:Q

This helps confirm the rather small performance impact of OCing on the 4870, but like you said, perhaps you can push it further with RivaTuner. I'm surprised by the small temperature increase when OCing, what speed is your fan running at?

I look forward to seeing your OC results!

LOL

Being a complete Nvidia Fanboy- I will tell you that Nvidia has dropped the ball recently- the 8 Series was amazing but the 9 series sucked, and then they had the supposedly every laptop chip failed, Which i dont think is true. And then many 790i's had tons of issues and many manufacturers have dropped out in making them. Not good news for nvidia after the 250M down the drain for the Laptop GPUS.

Unfortunately Nvidia is now playing catchup to ATI and the new GT200 55nm is going to be Super Rushed and will have its own set of Problems...

Consumers who are smart.. Would be smart to avoid this all till nvidia cools down and comes out with a Complete Tested and stable product.

Now Before you flame me- You should know I own 3- 8800 ultras in tri sli.
---

Also Physx was stupid before and its kind of stupid now, No games will really truly showcase it because Half the owners who have ATI wont use it- In fact many wont because of the FPS drop you get from it.
It is cool that they sent out the demos and stuff but if you play UT3 with the physx the glass shattering is really unrealistic...

 

[airhendrix13]

Originally posted by: btdvox

Originally posted by: airhendrix13

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: airhendrix13

Originally posted by: tvdang7
the 4870 does benifit from overclocking. the problem is all the sites have CCC cap and cant reach the full potential but most people are hiting like 825+ on the core using the amd overclock tool.

Do you have any benchmarks for that? I'd like to see how OCing affects the cards performance.

the CCC O/C only allows my 4870 to get to the "safe" 790/1100

it is about a +3% FPS improvement over stock [generally/roughly in a few games; maybe less - not impressive, but the core needs a higher OC to make a bigger difference]

i have RivaTuner that can OC further, but i haven't pushed the core yet; my temps - admittedly high to start with; only went up +2C at max CCC o/c.

So i have hope for more and i will let you know tonight how far she goes.


The reason i picked HD4870 was because i got it at launch and i want to play with Crossfire X3 [by adding a 4870x2]

BTW, the Sapphire box actually ENCOURAGES "max O/C'ing"
:Q

This helps confirm the rather small performance impact of OCing on the 4870, but like you said, perhaps you can push it further with RivaTuner. I'm surprised by the small temperature increase when OCing, what speed is your fan running at?

I look forward to seeing your OC results!

LOL
Seriously you need to stop trolling...
Being a complete Nvidia Fanboy- I will tell you that Nvidia has dropped the ball recently- the 8 Series was amazing but the 9 series sucked, and then they had the supposedly every laptop chip failed, Which i dont think is true. And then many 790i's had tons of issues.

Unfortunately Nvidia is now playing catchup to ATI and the new GT200 55nm is going to be Super Rushed and will have its own set of Problems...

Consumers who are smart.. Would be smart to avoid this all till nvidia cools down and comes out with a Complete Tested and stable product.

Now Before you flame me- You should know I own 3- 8800 ultras in tri sli.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also Physx was stupid before and its kind of stupid now, No games will really truly showcase it because Half the owners who have ATI wont use it- In fact many wont because of the FPS drop you get from it.
It is cool that they sent out the demos and stuff but if you play UT3 with the physx the glass shattering is really unrealistic...

I'm trolling? Read the whole thread and try again. In fact in my last post I just voiced my aggravation toward Nvidia, perhaps you didn't catch that. As for the OCing of the 4870, I was just trying to get confirmation about it.

There is nothing "not smart" about buying from Nvidia, sure they fucked up a bit, but that doesn't dismiss their cards as a good purchase.

This thread was made to provide information, not to point fingers.

Also, just to let you know, my 8800GTS is my first Nvidia card I have ever purchased. I had 3 ATI cards before it.

 

[btdvox]

^^^ Haha! I actually cut the trolling part out- after I read the whole thread- I only read the first post - Ive learnt to read on before "judging" trolling or not!

But I dont know what the 4870's OC is, but im prob the one trolling right now, but after reading all the news from nvidia, I just think its a bad idea for people to buy there new card such at the GT200 55nm refresh since they announced it like a month ago and are releasing it in sept...

A rushed product is a bad product I just wished they would learn that by now!

I love the 8800's; They are the new ATI 9800's. It lasted me 2 years no issues (and I am a FPS Hog!)

as I said before, I consider myself a Nvidia fanboy and have prob trolled on ATI before.

Its just sucks whats happened- Losses look like over 300 Mil to Nvidia with there Laptop and 790i issues .

I have now fully tried out the Physx mod pack and htought some of the demos were cool, Its great that this softwares free, but for actual gaming- Physx meant nothing before really to people (even users that had the PPU) and I dont think that will change unless it goes over to both ati and intel gpus (though intel integrated couldnt handle it).

Frankly I thought UT3 Physx was the worst though, I found alot of physics "fake and unrealistic"
Like HDR was at the start (BLOOM HERE and there! haha)

Anyways sorry about the whole troll message- If you see the edit- you can see I deleted quite at the same time you posted LOL!!

 

[CreasianDevaili]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Moral of the thread is, with the hype long since past on the 4870 and the 260 dropping in price with free PhysX there is no reason to recommend the 4870.

What if one does not play any of the games that truely utilizes physX and on the list of games being developed and released before another major GPU release we find nothing worth our time?

People keep mentioning PhysX but isnt it worthless if the games that you build a gaming rig for dont use physX and instead use havok? I looked carefully at the games I plan to play and at the estimated release dates for the new gpu revisions and physX offers me nothing.

I mean if there are upcoming games that will use PhysX and you want to fully utilize the game's features then I would in a second say go for the 260gtx.

 

[ZimZum]

Originally posted by: CreasianDevaili

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Moral of the thread is, with the hype long since past on the 4870 and the 260 dropping in price with free PhysX there is no reason to recommend the 4870.

What if one does not play any of the games that truely utilizes physX and on the list of games being developed and released before another major GPU release we find nothing worth our time?

People keep mentioning PhysX but isnt it worthless if the games that you build a gaming rig for dont use physX and instead use havok? I looked carefully at the games I plan to play and at the estimated release dates for the new gpu revisions and physX offers me nothing.

I mean if there are upcoming games that will use PhysX and you want to fully utilize the game's features then I would in a second say go for the 260gtx.

Yeah the physx hype has really gotten out of hand. From the nV cheerleaders you would think it was the second coming. In actuality it currently only works on a Few levels in a few games, with a substantial performance penalty for enabling it.

Certainly not a valid reason in and of itself for selecting the slower card imo.

 

[deerhunter716]

It's easy the 4870 beats the 260 in a BIG majority of benchmarks; it's that plain and simple. Now sure you cannot go wrong with the 260 either. But the #'s just do not lie in the 4870 wins a heck of a lot more.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: deerhunter716
It's easy the 4870 beats the 260 in a BIG majority of benchmarks; it's that plain and simple. Now sure you cannot go wrong with the 260 either. But the #'s just do not lie in the 4870 wins a heck of a lot more.

I don't know if this can be said anymore. I just reviewed the HD4870s on newegg and the only factory OCd model I saw had a meager 30Mhz OC on the core and 200MHz on the RAM.

Compare that with stellar deals like the Asus Top GTX260 that gives you a 74MHz OC on the core and 300MHz on the RAM, or the Zotac that gives you 74MHz OC on the core and 100MHz on RAM, or the EVGA FTW that gives you 80MHz OC on the core and 214MHz on the RAM, etc.

It looks to me like these warranted OC GTX260s smack around all the stock HD4870s:

In 6 out of 32, the HD4870 beat the GTX260.

So the GTX260 won 26/32 benches, has more RAM, and has free PhysX.

The day the HD4870 launched it was the card to buy, these days that Asus Top beats it at benches and equals it at price, and is the card to buy.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: deerhunter716
It's easy the 4870 beats the 260 in a BIG majority of benchmarks; it's that plain and simple. Now sure you cannot go wrong with the 260 either. But the #'s just do not lie in the 4870 wins a heck of a lot more.

I don't know if this can be said anymore. I just reviewed the HD4870s on newegg and the only factory OCd model I saw had a meager 30Mhz OC on the core and 200MHz on the RAM.

Compare that with stellar deals like the Asus Top GTX260 that gives you a 74MHz OC on the core and 300MHz on the RAM, or the Zotac that gives you 74MHz OC on the core and 100MHz on RAM, or the EVGA FTW that gives you 80MHz OC on the core and 214MHz on the RAM, etc.

It looks to me like these warranted OC GTX260s smack around all the stock HD4870s:

In 6 out of 32, the HD4870 beat the GTX260.

So the GTX260 won 26/32 benches, has more RAM, and has free PhysX.

The day the HD4870 launched it was the card to buy, these days that Asus Top beats it at benches and equals it at price, and is the card to buy.

are you saying warranted or warrantied?
- it was in bold, so i wasn't sure


Hang on a little while for AMD's partners on the OC train.
Clearly Nvidia saw the NEED to OC GT260 before AMD did their own 4870 - they HAD to, just to be competitive with 4870

My own 4870 - sapphire junk {which DOES authorize an OC, btw} - easily gets 810/1150 - and the fan is stuck on low!

now lets see the comparisons .. i will put my 4870 against any GT260

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/590/8

look at their benches .. an OC'd 260 barely edges a *stock* 4870 in CoD4 [where nvidia traditionally wins] at 19x12. OC'ing the 4870 would push it ahead of the 260 .. and i can cherry pick benches at least as well as you can to prove .. whatever you want to.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/590/9

Crysis at High 19x12 HD4870 Kills the OC'd 260

here is their conclusion:

The reviewed video card from XFX was up to 22% faster than Radeon HD 4870, depending on the video configuration used. In some scenarios (some configurations of Crysis, Unreal Tournament 3, Half-Life 2: Episode 2 and Quake 4) both card achieved similar performance, with HD 4870 being faster on some configurations of Quake 4 and Half-Life 2: Episode Two.

Here are some thoughts about XFX GeForce GTX 260 640M XXX, keeping in mind that this video card is targeted to users that have USD 300 to spend on a video card.

If you are planning on buying Call of Duty 4, then this video card is a terrific option, as it comes with this game. Since this game costs around USD 50 you are in fact paying USD 280 for this video card (USD 330 ? USD 50).

If you had already decided to buy a GeForce GTX 260, then this model from XFX can be an interesting option. For 10% increase in price you get a 10% increase in performance, on average. Not a bad deal.

But if you are a looking for a high-end video card with a good cost/benefit ratio and don?t give a damn about Call of Duty 4, then you will probably be better off buying a Radeon HD 4870.

i tend to agree

and ... in conclusion ... that is why i am one of the "some people" still recommending 4870

but then i will also recommend GT260

or even waiting for X2 and GT290

doesn't matter to me .. they are great companies now making well priced and competitive cards with appealing and different features.
- it's all good and a great time to upgrade [or not]

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: deerhunter716
It's easy the 4870 beats the 260 in a BIG majority of benchmarks; it's that plain and simple. Now sure you cannot go wrong with the 260 either. But the #'s just do not lie in the 4870 wins a heck of a lot more.

I don't know if this can be said anymore. I just reviewed the HD4870s on newegg and the only factory OCd model I saw had a meager 30Mhz OC on the core and 200MHz on the RAM.

Compare that with stellar deals like the Asus Top GTX260 that gives you a 74MHz OC on the core and 300MHz on the RAM, or the Zotac that gives you 74MHz OC on the core and 100MHz on RAM, or the EVGA FTW that gives you 80MHz OC on the core and 214MHz on the RAM, etc.

It looks to me like these warranted OC GTX260s smack around all the stock HD4870s:

In 6 out of 32, the HD4870 beat the GTX260.

So the GTX260 won 26/32 benches, has more RAM, and has free PhysX.

The day the HD4870 launched it was the card to buy, these days that Asus Top beats it at benches and equals it at price, and is the card to buy.

are you saying warranted or warrantied?
- it was in bold, so i wasn't sure


Hang on a little while for AMD's partners on the OC train.
Clearly Nvidia saw the NEED to OC GT260 before AMD did their own 4870 - they HAD to, just to be competitive with 4870

My own 4870 - sapphire junk {which DOES authorize an OC, btw} - easily gets 810/1150 - and the fan is stuck on low!

now lets see the comparisons .. i will put my 4870 against any GT260

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/590/8

look at their benches .. an OC'd 260 barely edges a *stock* 4870 in CoD4 [where nvidia traditionally wins] at 19x12. OC'ing the 4870 would push it ahead of the 260 .. and i can cherry pick benches at least as well as you can to prove .. whatever you want to.

1. There's no cherry picking of benches involved, the HD4870 loses 26/32 benches in the seven games and one synthetic benchmark tested- thats a decent sized sample of modern games. (that doesn't include games NVIDIA traditionally wins like Lost Planet)

2. Your personal OC is meaningless outside your home. All OCing is YMMV, for the sake of purchasing, a buyer really needs to review factory warranted OC benchmarks for primary consideration.

3. No, I meant "warranted" because "warrantied" isn't a word.

4. Sapphire doesn't look like they extend warranty to OC to me:
Products that become non-functional due to customer improper use......GPU or ASIC device (VGA) is sensitive to thermal (heat) issue. The heat sink or fan is designed to meet the requirements for reliability of the product and the warranty is rendered invalid if the product is dismantled or the heat sink or cooler fan are removed

5. I've been "hanging on" for ATi OEMs to offer a variety of factory OCd parts since there have been ATi cards. Bet you a liter of Jack Daniels that for every single generation of video cards these two companies have competed NVIDIA OEMs have offered more OCd models. ATi OC cards are the exception, not the rule.

6. ATi only has one vendor that offers a lifetime warranty. NVIDIA vendors commonly offer that, plus some have step up, double lifetime, and card modification warranty.

The tide has turned on the 4870 if people do their homework- a card with almost double the RAM, superior performance, superior vendors, and PhysX to boot is the better buy.

Not that I want to sell any GTX260s, but the topic of this thread demands this answer from what I can see. The only remaining advantages for the 4870 are the incremental improvements of 8XAA being faster, DX10.1 (MIA), and tessalation (MIA).

It's nowhere near the slam dunk the person I was replying to made it out to be.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: apoppin

My own 4870 - sapphire junk {which DOES authorize an OC, btw} -

Just so we are clear poppy it says "Warranty covers overclocking" right on the box?

Could you show us where the warranty covers it. Otherwise you could be spreading bad information that could actually cost people money.

Also is that a lifetime warranty?

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: Ryl3x
Lets all your ATI Fans pray for nvidia to shut down so that ATI will go back to charging $600 for a $200 card.

Some of you ATI fans are incredible.

It's backwards my friend. Considering how close 4870 and 260 are, it'd be much wiser to buy the ATI card to give that company some $ when they need it the most so they can continue producing such great products. What do you think prompted NV to lower prices? Keep feeding NV for your $650 GTX380 ...

At the end of the day, I think one should choose based on the games played (ex. GRID, Test Drive Unlimited, Bioshock, COD4, etc --> ATI; Mass Effect, Tomb Raider: Legend, Hellgate: London etc. -> NV) and how important higher image quality with 8AA is to that person.

Excellent Review with resolutions up to 2560x1600:
August 8 Xbitlabs Review - 4850CF vs. 9800GX2 vs. 4870 vs. GTX 260 ($300 battle)

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: apoppin

My own 4870 - sapphire junk {which DOES authorize an OC, btw} -

Just so we are clear poppy it says "Warranty covers overclocking" right on the box?

Could you show us where the warranty covers it. Otherwise you could be spreading bad information that could actually cost people money.

Also is that a lifetime warranty?

Do you have extreme reading comprehension problems?

i am *quoting* what is printed on my own Sapphire HD4870 box:

Reduced Size - Less Heat - 55nm fabrication process.
Lower power + less heat = Maximum overclocking performance!

You interpret it. Do you need me to upload a picture of the Sapphire box?
:roll:

You posted a link to sapphires warranty. Did you forget?

Finally, Rollo .. you can cherrypick other sites to get the 4870 winning in most of their benches. All i was doing was showing the performance increase by O/C'ing my OWN Sapphy 4870. i am sure we will see AMD's partners bring out their own Extreme OC'd 4870. There was NO NEED until Nvidia O/C'd the 260

yes, warrantied is a word

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/warrantied

3. a written guarantee given to the purchaser of a new appliance, automobile, or other item by the manufacturer or dealer, usually specifying that the manufacturer will make any repairs or replace defective parts free of charge for a stated period of time.

i was confused as it could fit

My Box says it is OK .. see what i quoted; that would be simple OC, i do not reasonably think they would cover aftermarket cooling, volt-modding or another bios

Yes, AMD needs more OC'ing partners agreed. And perhaps when they make some money they can improve on their warranties. i would use my Gold or Platinum Credit Card to extend the manufacturer's warranty for an additional year - if i cared.

Yes, i am certain you think the 260 is the better card. i haven't got my hands on one to compare with my 4870 yet. So i cannot say for certain other than to say i am not missing out on ANYTHING .. and 8xAA is nice, i can attest to that =)

it is no slam dunk either way
imo