Why are Most People Still Recommending the 4870?

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OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
With the 9800GX2 being found for ~$285, I dont know how you can blindly recommend the 4870 to anyone......unless...well....yea.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Originally posted by: airhendrix13
Originally posted by: solofly
Originally posted by: airhendrix13
the 4870 is already so hot that it's hard to believe that it could be OC'd much higher above the 700mhz cap on CCC anyway without 3rd party cooling.
Well it's HOT cause at idle the fan only runs at 14% give it or take. Ati thinks it's safe, I don't worry about it as long as the card is stable.
ATI should strive to improve the cooling by releasing a fix for the fan speed. Although it is an easy fix for most, for some this can be new territory. It is unacceptable that ATI has let this issue go unresolved for so long. But yes, that will significantly lower temps.
We can always find faults or things to moan about,Nvidia video cards are getting bigger and bigger ,within 5 years I'll probably need a case just for my video cards alone ,this to me is unacceptable.
 

airhendrix13

Senior member
Oct 15, 2006
427
0
0
Originally posted by: Mem
Originally posted by: adlep
Physx and Cuda support are important pluses to recommend going Nvidia route at least until AMD develops similar set of tools.
With Nvidia cards, there is a bigger potential of using them for something else than 3d games.


Fastra

CUDA
I don't think I have any games that use Physx at the moment,I buy 5-6 new games(not including old budget games) a year so lets say 12 games over next 2 years before I upgrade again,how many will be using Physx and too powerful for my 4870 card at decent FPS?..not many if any.
Speaking of new games, Nvidia told us about two upcoming titles that will feature PhysX hardware acceleration. One of them is DICE's Mirror's Edge, which will feature awesome-looking first-person free running in a futuristic dystopia. Another is Natural Motion's Backbreaker, a third-person football sim. Nvidia claims studios have signed on to implement PhysX in another 10 games?and that's just in the month following the Ageia acquisition.
Link: http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15261/5

Sounds like a handful of titles are on the way at least.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
PhysX and DX 10.1 are both vaporware in terms of game support that anyone should care about, so count both out for now.

Hot Deals prices for both have been in the low 200s so calling one cheaper isn't always accurate either.

Both ATI and nvidia have had driver issues, and the better nvidia vendors must be balanced against alleged manufacturing quality problems with the GTX cards.

At stock, the 4870 is faster. Setting a Catalyst profile is very easy then the card runs cool.

So: unless you plan to overclock and aren't able to watch for deals, the 4870 is still the better choice in my opinion.

At $2xx instead of $4xx the GTX 260 is now a decent choice though.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Originally posted by: airhendrix13
Originally posted by: Mem
Originally posted by: adlep
Physx and Cuda support are important pluses to recommend going Nvidia route at least until AMD develops similar set of tools.
With Nvidia cards, there is a bigger potential of using them for something else than 3d games.


Fastra

CUDA
I don't think I have any games that use Physx at the moment,I buy 5-6 new games(not including old budget games) a year so lets say 12 games over next 2 years before I upgrade again,how many will be using Physx and too powerful for my 4870 card at decent FPS?..not many if any.
Speaking of new games, Nvidia told us about two upcoming titles that will feature PhysX hardware acceleration. One of them is DICE's Mirror's Edge, which will feature awesome-looking first-person free running in a futuristic dystopia. Another is Natural Motion's Backbreaker, a third-person football sim. Nvidia claims studios have signed on to implement PhysX in another 10 games?and that's just in the month following the Ageia acquisition.
Link: http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15261/5

Sounds like a handful of titles are on the way at least.
But how many will I have?..Yep not many.


Besides did you read this part ,
We wouldn't be surprised to see Radeons gain physics support one way or another, though. Nvidia claims to be supporting an independent developer who wants to port PhysX to AMD cards, and truly widespread use of advanced physics effects may hinge on whether hardware from both companies supports the technology.
So again it's still not an issue at this time.
 

airhendrix13

Senior member
Oct 15, 2006
427
0
0
Originally posted by: Mem
Originally posted by: airhendrix13
Originally posted by: solofly
Originally posted by: airhendrix13
the 4870 is already so hot that it's hard to believe that it could be OC'd much higher above the 700mhz cap on CCC anyway without 3rd party cooling.
Well it's HOT cause at idle the fan only runs at 14% give it or take. Ati thinks it's safe, I don't worry about it as long as the card is stable.
ATI should strive to improve the cooling by releasing a fix for the fan speed. Although it is an easy fix for most, for some this can be new territory. It is unacceptable that ATI has let this issue go unresolved for so long. But yes, that will significantly lower temps.
We can always find faults or things to moan about,Nvidia video cards are getting bigger and bigger ,within 5 years I'll probably need a case just for my video cards alone ,this to me is unacceptable.
I would hope Nvidia wouldn't make cards bigger without having a reason to need them bigger. But yes, we can all find things to gripe about on both sides, but the fan fix is a simple fix that ATI should of addressed early on.
 

airhendrix13

Senior member
Oct 15, 2006
427
0
0
Originally posted by: Mem
Originally posted by: airhendrix13
Originally posted by: Mem
Originally posted by: adlep
Physx and Cuda support are important pluses to recommend going Nvidia route at least until AMD develops similar set of tools.
With Nvidia cards, there is a bigger potential of using them for something else than 3d games.


Fastra

CUDA
I don't think I have any games that use Physx at the moment,I buy 5-6 new games(not including old budget games) a year so lets say 12 games over next 2 years before I upgrade again,how many will be using Physx and too powerful for my 4870 card at decent FPS?..not many if any.
Speaking of new games, Nvidia told us about two upcoming titles that will feature PhysX hardware acceleration. One of them is DICE's Mirror's Edge, which will feature awesome-looking first-person free running in a futuristic dystopia. Another is Natural Motion's Backbreaker, a third-person football sim. Nvidia claims studios have signed on to implement PhysX in another 10 games?and that's just in the month following the Ageia acquisition.
Link: http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15261/5

Sounds like a handful of titles are on the way at least.
But how many will I have?..Yep not many.


Besides did you read this part ,
We wouldn't be surprised to see Radeons gain physics support one way or another, though. Nvidia claims to be supporting an independent developer who wants to port PhysX to AMD cards, and truly widespread use of advanced physics effects may hinge on whether hardware from both companies supports the technology.
So again it's still not an issue at this time.
You may not have them, but others may. I did read that part actually, and I mentioned it in my first post, but we have no idea if it is going to happen or not. If it did though, that would be great!
 

airhendrix13

Senior member
Oct 15, 2006
427
0
0
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
PhysX and DX 10.1 are both vaporware in terms of game support that anyone should care about, so count both out for now.

Hot Deals prices for both have been in the low 200s so calling one cheaper isn't always accurate either.

Both ATI and nvidia have had driver issues, and the better nvidia vendors must be balanced against alleged manufacturing quality problems with the GTX cards.

At stock, the 4870 is faster. Setting a Catalyst profile is very easy then the card runs cool.

So: unless you plan to overclock and aren't able to watch for deals, the 4870 is still the better choice in my opinion.

At $2xx instead of $4xx the GTX 260 is now a decent choice though.
The manufacturing defects seem to be limited to the GTX 280, but with the GTX 260 being so similar in design, it makes me wonder if similar issues will start popping up for the GTX 260.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Originally posted by: airhendrix13
Originally posted by: Mem
Originally posted by: airhendrix13
Originally posted by: Mem
Originally posted by: adlep
Physx and Cuda support are important pluses to recommend going Nvidia route at least until AMD develops similar set of tools.
With Nvidia cards, there is a bigger potential of using them for something else than 3d games.


Fastra

CUDA
I don't think I have any games that use Physx at the moment,I buy 5-6 new games(not including old budget games) a year so lets say 12 games over next 2 years before I upgrade again,how many will be using Physx and too powerful for my 4870 card at decent FPS?..not many if any.
Speaking of new games, Nvidia told us about two upcoming titles that will feature PhysX hardware acceleration. One of them is DICE's Mirror's Edge, which will feature awesome-looking first-person free running in a futuristic dystopia. Another is Natural Motion's Backbreaker, a third-person football sim. Nvidia claims studios have signed on to implement PhysX in another 10 games?and that's just in the month following the Ageia acquisition.
Link: http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15261/5

Sounds like a handful of titles are on the way at least.
But how many will I have?..Yep not many.


Besides did you read this part ,
We wouldn't be surprised to see Radeons gain physics support one way or another, though. Nvidia claims to be supporting an independent developer who wants to port PhysX to AMD cards, and truly widespread use of advanced physics effects may hinge on whether hardware from both companies supports the technology.
So again it's still not an issue at this time.
You may not have them, but others may. I did read that part actually, and I mentioned it in my first post, but we have no idea if it is going to happen or not. If it did though, that would be great!
I did say "So again it's still not an issue at this time."Things might change down the road since we all know how technology changes over time,Havok is still unknown factor and nobody has a crystal ball to see what'll happen once the dust settles over the coming years,you want to throw in DX10.1,DX11 too?...again nobody knows the outcome.

I always say buy what you are most happy with,in the end thats what counts,nothing is futureproof.
 

airhendrix13

Senior member
Oct 15, 2006
427
0
0
Originally posted by: natty1
Just out of curiousity, which card runs Crysis better at stock settings?
According to the Anandtech review of the 4870 and 4850, the 4870 does.
 

quadomatic

Senior member
May 13, 2007
993
0
76
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
With the 9800GX2 being found for ~$285, I dont know how you can blindly recommend the 4870 to anyone......unless...well....yea.
Yeah...the 9800GX2 performs reallllllllllllly well, doesn't it? $285 is a steal. And it is, in fact, $285 on newegg right now. No rebates. $270 if you use Live.com cashback.
 

airhendrix13

Senior member
Oct 15, 2006
427
0
0
Originally posted by: quadomatic
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
With the 9800GX2 being found for ~$285, I dont know how you can blindly recommend the 4870 to anyone......unless...well....yea.
Yeah...the 9800GX2 performs reallllllllllllly well, doesn't it? $285 is a steal. And it is, in fact, $285 on newegg right now. No rebates. $270 if you use Live.com cashback.
I actually started a thread out of curiosity of which would be better to get, the 260 or the 9800 GX2, and it was pretty much across the board for the GTX 260.

Here's the link to the thread: LINK
 

Rebel44

Senior member
Jun 19, 2006
742
1
76
Local prices (EU)

HD4870 335 USD
260GTX 400 USD

Why would anyone buy 260 for this price ???
 

airhendrix13

Senior member
Oct 15, 2006
427
0
0
Originally posted by: Rebel44
Local prices (EU)

HD4870 335 USD
260GTX 400 USD

Why would anyone buy 260 for this price ???
Hopefully no one would at that price! In the US the GTX 260 has been seen as low as $225 after rebate I believe.
 

DerKaiser

Senior member
Feb 12, 2002
460
0
0
Currently at Newegg, the lowest 4870 price after rebate is $255 (Asus). The lowest GTX260 price after rebate is $245 (MSI).

(It's actually a $20 price difference since they charge ~$10 for shipping the Asus, but the MSI shipping is free).
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
people took "there is no reason to get the GTX260 at this price" which was said by every reviewer out there as "there is no reason to get the GTX260". The GTX260 is actually cheaper now. I would recommend it over the 4870.

Also AFAIK most countries simply looked at nvidia's price slashing, laughed, and kept on selling the GTX260 for 700$ and the GTX280 for 1000$ (current prices in india for example).
 

praesto

Member
Jan 29, 2007
83
0
0
In my country, Denmark, the cheapest 4870's go for 380 $ and the cheapest gtx 260's go for 470 $. If only the prices were equal, I would pick the gtx 260 simply because I like hardware with lots of overclocking headroom. But I simply can't justify paying 90 $ more for a 260 when a 4870 offers 10 % better performance.
 

ZimZum

Golden Member
Aug 2, 2001
1,281
0
76
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
PhysX and DX 10.1 are both vaporware in terms of game support that anyone should care about, so count both out for now.

Hot Deals prices for both have been in the low 200s so calling one cheaper isn't always accurate either.

Both ATI and nvidia have had driver issues, and the better nvidia vendors must be balanced against alleged manufacturing quality problems with the GTX cards.

At stock, the 4870 is faster. Setting a Catalyst profile is very easy then the card runs cool.

So: unless you plan to overclock and aren't able to watch for deals, the 4870 is still the better choice in my opinion.

At $2xx instead of $4xx the GTX 260 is now a decent choice though.
/thread
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
PhysX and DX 10.1 are both vaporware in terms of game support that anyone should care about, so count both out for now.
10.1 maybe but PhysX is now a prime reason to buy NVIDIA over ATI

Along with the drivers will come a downloadable PhysX software pack containing free Unreal Tournament 3 maps, the full version of NetDevil's Warmonger, a couple of Nvidia demos, and sneak peeks at Object Software's Metal Knight Zero and Nurien Software's Nurien social-networking service......
.....two upcoming titles that will feature PhysX hardware acceleration. One of them is DICE's Mirror's Edge, which will feature awesome-looking first-person free running in a futuristic dystopia. Another is Natural Motion's Backbreaker, a third-person football sim. Nvidia claims studios have signed on to implement PhysX in another 10 games?and that's just in the month following the Ageia acquisition.
 

deerhunter716

Member
Jul 17, 2007
163
0
0
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
PhysX and DX 10.1 are both vaporware in terms of game support that anyone should care about, so count both out for now.
10.1 maybe but PhysX is now a prime reason to buy NVIDIA over ATI

Along with the drivers will come a downloadable PhysX software pack containing free Unreal Tournament 3 maps, the full version of NetDevil's Warmonger, a couple of Nvidia demos, and sneak peeks at Object Software's Metal Knight Zero and Nurien Software's Nurien social-networking service......
.....two upcoming titles that will feature PhysX hardware acceleration. One of them is DICE's Mirror's Edge, which will feature awesome-looking first-person free running in a futuristic dystopia. Another is Natural Motion's Backbreaker, a third-person football sim. Nvidia claims studios have signed on to implement PhysX in another 10 games?and that's just in the month following the Ageia acquisition.


Sure - a prime reason to DECREASE your FPS by a huge factor, lol
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
People keep confusing chip temperature with actual heat output. A chip can be output 150 Watts of heat and still be cooler than a chip that outputs 75 Watts of heat. What does that tell us? That the heatsink + fan combo does a better job in the 150 Watt chip.

The GTX280 IIRC, outputs the most wattage for a single card, yet seems to have better temperatures than than the 4870. This doesn't indicate anything other than the fact that the Heatsink + Fan that the GTX280 reference design has is of better quality than the 4870. If both had the same cooling and fan speeds, the 4870 would run cooler.
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Originally posted by: deerhunter716




Sure - a prime reason to DECREASE your FPS by a huge factor, lol
Actually no, it does not. Please read the reviews before posting. k thx bye
 

SSChevy2001

Senior member
Jul 9, 2008
774
0
0
@Wreckage

While physx does add some really nice effects, it also eat a good deal of FPS. Of course with no physx hardware don't even bother playing a physx map. Question is with more demanding games coming out will the GPU be able to handle both tasks? Also will there be a ATI version Havok or Physx?

Now at least with DX10.1 you should see higher FPS down the road when you really need it. Nvidia does seem to have more pull with developers so this might not get very far.

Either way I wouldn't recommond either right now. GTX quality control seems to be questionable right now, and even though 4870 doesn't have a problem with 512mb I rather have 1GB. Just need to wait a little longer 55nm or 4870x2.
 

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