Why are liberals for CARS and conservatives against it?

tk149

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2002
7,253
1
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Why are liberals for CARS and conservatives against it?

Based on P&N discussions, in general, liberals like the CARS program. In general, conservatives don't like it.

Okay, I admit up front that my understanding is imperfect (hence the question).

Based on the discussion here, it seems that the primary reason government enacted this program is to encourage people to buy more new cars, which provides money to the car dealers and the auto companies, thereby stimulating the economy, which in turn creates new jobs for middle and lower class people. There are side benefits (e.g. better mileage, people with new cars), but that seems to be the main reason.

Dealership owners and auto companies are the primary beneficiaries of CARS. These are not poor or middle class people.

My understanding of trickle down theory is that you give tax breaks or other economic benefits to rich people, and they will take that money and invest more in business (stimulate the economy) which in turn creates new jobs for middle and lower class people. I thought that liberals disliked trickle down theory, and conservatives liked it.

Now, of course, CARS does not just benefit rich people. It provides money for anyone who has a qualifiying clunker, and can afford a new car. Not for people like me ("middle" middle class) who don't have enough saved up to outright buy a new car, are still in fear for their jobs, and therefore don't want to take on new debt. Not for poor people who can't afford a new car at all, and wouldn't qualify for financing.

In general, I'd expect that the people who qualify are the upper middle class and the upper class, who are most likely to have enough liquid assets to buy a new car, or are most secure in their jobs.

As pointed out by others, reducing the used car market actually hurts the poor and lower middle class.

Given the above, why are liberals for CARS and conservatives against it? It seems like it should be the opposite, since it seems that CARS is basically just trickle down economics, although much more targeted.

So what am I missing here? This question popped into my head this morning while I was still sleep-groggy, so please forgive me if it seems silly.

EDIT:
Please stay on topic. I don't really want to debate the merits of CARS. That's been done in other threads.

Here's what I'm asking.

1. Are my assumptions correct?
A. Liberals like CARS, conservative don't like CARS.
B. Liberals don't like trickle down economics, conservatives do like trickle down economics.

2. Is CARS essentially a narrow form of trickle down economics?
If not, then end of discussion. Please explain why?

3. If #2 is true, then why don't conservatives like CARS, and Liberals dislike it?
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
4
81
It's because it's being implemented during this term. If it was done 2 years ago, conservatives would be calling it brilliant.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
It's because it's being implemented during this term. If it was done 2 years ago, conservatives would be calling it brilliant.

:roll:

Looks like OP's troll trap worked right off the bat!
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,592
6,715
126
Originally posted by: tk149
Why are liberals for CARS and conservatives against it?

Based on P&N discussions, in general, liberals like the CARS program. In general, conservatives don't like it.

Okay, I admit up front that my understanding is imperfect (hence the question).

Based on the discussion here, it seems that the primary reason government enacted this program is to encourage people to buy more new cars, which provides money to the car dealers and the auto companies, thereby stimulating the economy, which in turn creates new jobs for middle and lower class people. There are side benefits (e.g. better mileage, people with new cars), but that seems to be the main reason.

Dealership owners and auto companies are the primary beneficiaries of CARS. These are not poor or middle class people.

My understanding of trickle down theory is that you give tax breaks or other economic benefits to rich people, and they will take that money and invest more in business (stimulate the economy) which in turn creates new jobs for middle and lower class people. I thought that liberals disliked trickle down theory, and conservatives liked it.

Now, of course, CARS does not just benefit rich people. It provides money for anyone who has a qualifiying clunker, and can afford a new car. Not for people like me ("middle" middle class) who don't have enough saved up to outright buy a new car, are still in fear for their jobs, and therefore don't want to take on new debt. Not for poor people who can't afford a new car at all, and wouldn't qualify for financing.

In general, I'd expect that the people who qualify are the upper middle class and the upper class, who are most likely to have enough liquid assets to buy a new car, or are most secure in their jobs.

As pointed out by others, reducing the used car market actually hurts the poor and lower middle class.

Given the above, why are liberals for CARS and conservatives against it? It seems like it should be the opposite, since it seems that CARS is basically just trickle down economics, although much more targeted.

So what am I missing here? This question popped into my head this morning while I was still sleep-groggy, so please forgive me if it seems silly.

Not only are you somnambulent, but you're darn right nuts. What kind of anal retent saves up to buy a car. Why don't you just join the communist party you anti-American thug?
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
It's because it's being implemented during this term. If it was done 2 years ago, conservatives would be calling it brilliant.

Ironically, your partisan logic can also be applied to the notion that Democrats would have opposed it 2 years ago, but hail it today. They would have (correctly) employed one of the arguments tk149 made: this program hurts the used car market and makes it difficult for the lower middle class and lower class to obtain their own transportation.

There are arguments for and against, and an objective person will admit as much regardless of their party affiliation and who proposed it.
 

evident

Lifer
Apr 5, 2005
12,128
748
126
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
It's because it's being implemented during this term. If it was done 2 years ago, conservatives would be calling it brilliant.

:roll:

Looks like OP's troll trap worked right off the bat!

you know this statement is true.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
76
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
It's because it's being implemented during this term. If it was done 2 years ago, conservatives would be calling it brilliant.

:roll:

Looks like OP's troll trap worked right off the bat!

Meh, he's right.

FWIW, you don't have to be rich or wealthy to afford a new car. I missed out on the cash for clunkers deal because I dumped my POS car in Dec. The way I looked at it, with my VW needing one expensive repair after another I decided to trade my repair bills for a car payment. Based on the recent history of repairs it would be about the same monthly cost and then I wouldn't be stuck with car pooling/rentals while it was in the shop. My new car costs me < $300/mo, gets 50% better MPG, and has a 3/36 warranty.
 

tk149

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2002
7,253
1
0
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
It's because it's being implemented during this term. If it was done 2 years ago, conservatives would be calling it brilliant.

:roll:

Looks like OP's troll trap worked right off the bat!

It's not a troll, it's an honest question. I have a hard time understanding both liberals and conservatives despite the fact that (or maybe because) I share views with both sides. If you have nothing to contribute to the thread. YOU are a troll.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
34
91
Because if they were not at odds on every single fucking issue the world would eat itself.
 

tk149

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2002
7,253
1
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Not only are you somnambulent, but you're darn right nuts. What kind of anal retent saves up to buy a car. Why don't you just join the communist party you anti-American thug?

What makes you think I'm not a communist and anti-American? :evil:

I had to look up the definition of "somnambulant." :eek:
 

MikeyLSU

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2005
2,747
0
71
I don't think it is a horrible program, I just think we could have spent 2-4 billion dollars in a week or 2 a little better.
 

Xellos2099

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2005
2,277
13
81
Maybe it is a bad plan because it is destroying million upon million of perfectly good usable old car and it cost government billion of dollar which it doesn't have?
 

alphatarget1

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
5,710
0
76
Have you seen the "clunkers" that were being destroyed? Many are perfectly good cars. It's a waste of resources and all in all, a badly drafted legislation/policy that only benefits a few.

Thank the Democratic congress for POS legislation!
 

Drakkon

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2001
8,401
1
0
Republicans are against it because it spends money from TARP and stimulus funds that was slated for their projects. They wanted it to be rolled in with TARP/Stimulus as and add on to the program but instead its taking away from their bottom of the pork barrel projects that they were promised as a part of those money spending programs.
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
Originally posted by: tk149
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
It's because it's being implemented during this term. If it was done 2 years ago, conservatives would be calling it brilliant.

:roll:

Looks like OP's troll trap worked right off the bat!

It's not a troll, it's an honest question. I have a hard time understanding both liberals and conservatives despite the fact that (or maybe because) I share views with both sides. If you have nothing to contribute to the thread. YOU are a troll.

He might have been calling AyashiKaibutsu a troll (agreed), depending on how you interpret Mursilis.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
I demand a "Cash for Pentiums" program to trade in your evil Pentium powered computer for more efficient Atom powered computer.
 

tk149

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2002
7,253
1
0
Please stay on topic. I don't really want to debate the merits of CARS. That's been done in other threads.

Here's what I'm asking.

1. Are my assumptions correct?
A. Liberals like CARS, conservative don't like CARS.
B. Liberals don't like trickle down economics, conservatives do like trickle down economics.

2. Is CARS essentially a narrow form of trickle down economics?
If not, then end of discussion. Please explain why.

3. If #2 is true, then why don't conservatives like CARS, and Liberals dislike it?
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: tk149
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
It's because it's being implemented during this term. If it was done 2 years ago, conservatives would be calling it brilliant.

:roll:

Looks like OP's troll trap worked right off the bat!

It's not a troll, it's an honest question. I have a hard time understanding both liberals and conservatives despite the fact that (or maybe because) I share views with both sides. If you have nothing to contribute to the thread. YOU are a troll.

He might have been calling AyashiKaibutsu a troll (agreed), depending on how you interpret Mursilis.

Somebody has a clue. Thank you.
 

tk149

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2002
7,253
1
0
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: tk149
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
It's because it's being implemented during this term. If it was done 2 years ago, conservatives would be calling it brilliant.

:roll:

Looks like OP's troll trap worked right off the bat!

It's not a troll, it's an honest question. I have a hard time understanding both liberals and conservatives despite the fact that (or maybe because) I share views with both sides. If you have nothing to contribute to the thread. YOU are a troll.

He might have been calling AyashiKaibutsu a troll (agreed), depending on how you interpret Mursilis.

Somebody has a clue. Thank you.

Sorry, my misunderstanding. I apologize. :eek:
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
61
"Why are liberals for CARS and conservatives against it?"

Because "liberals" are in power, and "conservatives" aren't.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
At its simplest, Obama was for it and thus liberals in lockstep will agree to almost anything he puts forward and antithetically Republicans will hate it. It's just how it is. If CARS had been put forward under Bush you'd see most of the same people with exactly opposing views from what they hold now.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,705
6,261
126
Libs like it because it's a good Program that addresses a number of Issues
Cons hate it for a few reasons:
1) They think most of those Issues are bunk to begin with
2) They have philosophical differences with the very concept of this type of Government program
3) They're just grasping at everything/anything to criticize Obama/Dems with
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,915
3,894
136
Originally posted by: Patranus
I demand a "Cash for Pentiums" program to trade in your evil Pentium powered computer for more efficient Atom powered computer.

Screw that, I want Cash for CRTs. I could use a new plasma upstairs.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
At its simplest, Obama was for it and thus liberals in lockstep will agree to almost anything he puts forward and antithetically Republicans will hate it. It's just how it is. If CARS had been put forward under Bush you'd see most of the same people with exactly opposing views from what they hold now.

^ this. Even I will admit if it were under Bush I would find an excuse to support it even if I thought it was a waste of money.