Why are AMD MB's more expensive than Intel?

[21stHermit]

Doing research on both current/last generation AMD (939/754) and Intel (755/478) motherboards, I consistently found the Intel offerings to have more features at lower prices.

For example:
Comparing a Sempron MB's on S754, most had only 2 DIMM sockets, a few had 3, whereas on S478, 4 DIMM sockets were very common. That and the cheapest 754 was ~$80, whereas ~$40 S478's were common.

For Athlon 64 S939 there are very few choices and they start at ~$100 and quickly go up. For S755, prices start at ~$80 with lots of suppliers.

I understand Intel sells 5-10X the CPU's of AMD, but those are global numbers. In the enthusast market, AMD is a bigger player than Intel, isn't it?

I'm trying to put together a 3-4GB RAM budget rig, doesn't seem possible with AMD. The AMD solutions are all $2-300 more than an Intel.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Post the proposed Intel setup and we will offer up comparable AMD solutions in the same price range with little doubt.

 

[tallman45]

3-4gb and budget are tough to put together. You would need to get 2mb DDR sticks or...

Best bet would be to find a Gigabyte 8KNXP or 8IK1100 which are one of the few that have 6 DDR slots, you will need to get single sided DDR for all 6 slots to work but it will be the most Budget way of getting a 3-4gb ram rig

Very few 939 MB's because they just came out, as time goes by there will be plenty to choose from

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Post the proposed Intel setup and we will offer up comparable AMD solutions in the same price range with little doubt.

DAPUNISHER I like your style.

Celeron-D 2.4 GHz . . . . . . $68
Asus P4P800-MX w/video . $63
Mushkin 2x512 DDR3200 . $145
Coolmax Taurus 400W . . . $37
Total . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $313
Existing Items
Case
Win XP
DVD Burner
WD 60GB

To be added Later
WD 74GB SATA ~$175
2x1G DDR3200 ~$400

This is obviously not a gamers rig

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Thanks for the compliment brudda :beer:

K7Upgrade-880- $48.50 shipped.

Sempr0n 2400+-$60 shipped

64mb vid card-$35. You can find a better card for the same or less used. Makes the total cost of board+video $15 higher than the Intel board but in return you get a vid card with 64mb of dedicated ram. Since you seem to need uber amounts of ram I can't see why you would be willing to let IGP steal it

Just use everything else you planned on and you can see nearly identical cost.

Now what are you doing that you need so much ram but can get away with such a whimpy CPU?

EDIT: Here's a nice review of the board linked The best part is that for a cost of say $20 later on *the board is barely twice that so maybe less* you will be able to get a skt939 CPU and card which might potentially have dual channel support for a full 4GB.

 

[Peanya]

I see reasons why the Intel boards are cheaper: The 478 is being discontinued, so prices are dropping to clear thru inventory. So why isn't the new LGA775 high? From what motherboard manufacturers are saying, it's not popular at all. The hot boards are still 478, 754, 939, and 462 (socket A).
Until Intel is competitive again in performance, they won't be as popular among people who build their own computers.

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
K7Upgrade-880- $48.50 Sempr0n 2400+-$60

Color me impressed, hadn't considered Socket A, didn't know "A" did dual-channel. Really wanted a S939, A64, 3000+, 90nm, just that MSI Neo was $140.

Now what are you doing that you need so much ram but can get away with such a whimpy CPU?

Fair Question. Stitching Photo Arrays. Started with 1 x N arrays (Panoramas), graduated to N x N arrays. My 1GB laptop can do 3x6 arrays of 6Mpixel images (took 3 hours). The actual stitching isn't so bad, its the blending of the seams. A program called Enblend uses guassian blur to hide the seams, black magic to me. I have 4 x 12 arrays, shot and awaiting stitching. The 3x6 was using 800MB according to Task Mgr.

My plan is to do this remotely from my laptop, using ethernet, I would set up the arrays, x-fer everything to the desktop and let it grind away. The monitor wouldn't be on so I could set video to VGA 64K colors.

According to the X-Bit Lab review, the Celeron-D will OC to 3.8G on air, just need a $40 HS/Fan. Its my belief that my task is equivalent to media encoding, where GHz rules.

In any case, my ears are open to your suggestions. Anyone with 12K posts has thunk about it a time or two.

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: tallman45
3-4gb and budget are tough to put together. You would need to get 2mb DDR sticks or...

Best bet would be to find a Gigabyte 8KNXP or 8IK1100 which are one of the few that have 6 DDR slots, you will need to get single sided DDR for all 6 slots to work but it will be the most Budget way of getting a 3-4gb ram rig

Very few 939 MB's because they just came out, as time goes by there will be plenty to choose from

why 1 gb of ram on a celeron 2.4


thats just horrible.

anyhow, when i bought my combo which was back in march btw. i got the following

some asrock k7s41gx board, on board video sound and lan. $45 (officially this board has only 333bus support, but in reality the 400 bus works fine and it has voltage tweaks by jumper. so my 2500 is at 3200 with no problems)

athlonxp 2500 retail $80

2 x 256 infineon $70
antec slk2650 bqe $60

all of those were shipped prices too

so thats what $255
and that was in march.

 

[ChineseDemocracyGNR]

I'm still running a socket A XP-Mobile, but that Celeron D 2.4 is better than anything AMD has at that price point.

The Celeron D 2400MHz can be easily overclocked to 3.6GHz. In this article (Portuguese) they did it at stock voltage.
At 3.6GHz the Celeron is much faster than a 2.4GHz Barton.

--

Just wanted to point out the ASRock K8 Combo-Z is the cheaper socket 939 motherboard.

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: ChineseDemocracyGNR
Just wanted to point out the ASRock K8 Combo-Z is the cheaper socket 939 motherboard.

Who'd Thunk . . . a S754 and S939 on one MB and $75: ASRock

Unfortunately, only 3 DIMMs, appreciate your pointing it out.

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: ChineseDemocracyGNR
Celeron D 2.4 is better than anything AMD has at that price point. The Celeron D 2400MHz can be easily overclocked to 3.6GHz.

Video Encoding Graph (Many CPUs)
Do you know if they used the stock HS/Fan or aftermarket? I assume you read Portuguese, I sure don't.

 

[kmmatney]

As far as your intended task, it all depends on whether your software is written with SSE instructions. I do a lot of image stitching at work:

Our Image stitching Application

We have to tile 16000 x 16000 pixel images, and perform a lot of manipulations with 16-bit images. We use scripts written with Image Pro Plus to tile and stitch everything together. The Athlon 64 is much faster than the pentium 4 for this task. I've never tried EnBlend, though...

I didn't have much luck overclocking a Celeron D I recently purchased at work...my memory isn't spectacular stuff, though. Your memory and MB should be OK, but its always a risk to assume overclocking.

 

[ChineseDemocracyGNR]

Originally posted by: 21stHermit
Video Encoding Graph (Many CPUs)
Do you know if they used the stock HS/Fan or aftermarket? I assume you read Portuguese, I sure don't.

hehe - I can read Portuguse.

One thing about that graph - 3,21 means 3 minutes and 21 seconds.

They used stock voltage with a Zalman 7000Cu. Temps for the 3600MHz overclock:

min: 49°c
max: 63°c
delta: 14°c

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: ChineseDemocracyGNR
hehe - I can read Portuguse.

Awesome, I'll bet you do Chinese as well, that makes you One Stud Linguist!!!
All you need is to add Arabic and you could work for the CIA. But, who'd want to work for that screwed up org?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

OK, you never mentioned overclocking in which case the board you linked ain't gonna cut it. Also, to read that article just install the google toolbar, right click and hit translate to english

As to the task you are planning on running, here is a strong argument for using AMD 64bit for panoramic photo stitching.Text I'd check and see if the proggie you use has plans to go 64bit soon as well.

Anywho, that Deleron is a good choice@3.6ghz+ for the time being anyways, but add that $40 cooler and a better overclocking board into your immediate cost analysis

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
OK, you never mentioned overclocking in which case the board you linked ain't gonna cut it.

Why? I went to Intel's website, the 875PE (A known good OCer) and the 865GV share the same inners, the GV adds Video and strips out AGP. On NewEgg's website, the reviewers say the P4P800-MX is a good OCer. I'll certainly agree that the MB is the key to a good OC, that's why I selected ASUS and the 865/875 chipset family, this Celeron D thread makes it clear not all MBs will cut it.

I'd check and see if the proggie you use has plans to go 64bit soon as well.

Not going to happen, I'm using PanoTools, PanoFactory is 1 x N only and doesn't allow tilting up/down, I own PF but haven't used it in months. Besides, stitching isn't the problem, seam blending takes 5X the time of stitching. Read more on Enblend

DAPUNISHER, you've earned my respect, so I'll pay carefull attention to what you say, but in this case my research is counter to your suggestion.

 

[Tube]

Originally posted by: 21stHermit

Originally posted by: ChineseDemocracyGNR
Just wanted to point out the ASRock K8 Combo-Z is the cheaper socket 939 motherboard.

Who'd Thunk . . . a S754 and S939 on one MB and $75: ASRock

Unfortunately, only 3 DIMMs, appreciate your pointing it out.

lol, that's one overloaded motherboard. I wouldn't ever buy it but I am curious how it benchmarks.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Hey it's your money and work so definitely make the decision for yourself. I'm just giving you free advice to consider.

I don't use the software in question so I certainly can't give an informed opinion about it. I haven't used that board either but the settings available according to the .pdf manual are very barebones, so I presume there is an overclocking bios you intend to use? If so then I am mistaken about its overclocking capabilities. I have seen very few mATX boards that are as good as their ATX counterparts at it though.

What I do know for certain is the original question I answered rather definitively and the rest has been to present alternatives so treat it like a salad bar, take what you want and leave the rest behind

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
. . . the settings available according to the .pdf manual are very barebones, so I presume there is an overclocking bios you intend to use? If so then I am mistaken about its overclocking capabilities. I have seen very few mATX boards that are as good as their ATX counterparts at it though.

Its been over a year since I've OC a system, laptop. To OC, based on my research, I will need to rez up the FSB and ratio down the memory. Also some voltage tweaks. Those are pretty basic settings. Am I missing something?

Did you check the .pdf manual and find it won't allow those changes? I do not have another BIOS planned. If ASUS's posted BIOS won't get it, well then I'm stuck.

Your previous post just said don't, with no specifics. There are and awful lot of opinions on these boards, which are just that . . . opinions. Your first two post were a challenge, on which you delivered, as I said, I was impressed. You've backed up your opinions with facts, I'm very left-brained, feed me facts.

If you still feel strongly that the ASUS mATX won't cut it, what ATX do you suggest? Maybe you'd like to see some of the Photos.