Are you inferring the clusterf**k that is the ME is the result of foreign introduction?
Muslims have been fighting each other since the dawn of Islam. When there aren't any infidels lying around, they go after the rivaling sects. If there aren't any rivaling sects, they boot out some of their own members and force them into a different sect, then they go after that newly established rivaling sect.
The entire culture and society revolves around violence and domination. Islam is not compatible with progression or modernization, which is why every country consumed by Islam pales in comparison to even the least developed Western country.
These countries ARE NOT POOR, they have the resources, they have the potential, but this awful excuse of a religion is holding them back. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't alienated themselves by attacking their allies and pointing the finger at those with the capacity to aid them.
Anyways, nothing is going to change until we cut ALL support from the Islamic and Arab nations. End the problem before it spreads here.
Are you talking about Islam or Arab culture? The two are not wholly tied to each other as Arab culture came before Islam. Somehow I don't see this article being written about Southeast Asian nations or holding much water with other nations with strong Muslim populations that aren't Arab. The fact of the matter is the whole region has had a violent history from the beginning of time. Whether it be when Cain killed Abel or the cave man killed his first Mammoth, you take your pick. Lets also not forget the period of colonialism which raped around the world. Then again I'd be interested to see some of you who adhere to the "They are animals" school of thought about your views on Africa, South and Central America, or other hotbeds of strife around the world in general which don't involve Muslims/Arabs and have been on going for a long time now. From reading the few posts here it seems this article has opened the "I hate Arabs+Islam" circle jerk convention flood gates without anyone providing any real meaningful feedback that isn't based on some sort of emotional hate filled rant.
One thing I do agree though is that the region itself is in need of some sort "Socially Liberal" revolution as a whole. If anything the Middle-East is a prime example of "Religious Social Conservatism" run a muck no matter what religion is in charge. The region as a whole has had a long history of religious warfare be it when the Jews and the gang slaughtered their way into the promise land from Egypt way back when or Romans stormed Masada in hopes of slaughtering everyone of those religious wackos or when the Crusade meet the Jihad, etc....I could probably of gone further back in history ( Sumeria, Babylonia, etc.... ) but I think you folks get the point or I least I hope you do.
I haven't read the book, but from what's mentioned here, it sounds like old news. We all know how primitive Arab countries are, not to mention their culture.
I don't think we should just sit and have a laugh at those failing Arab countries, since they are becoming a bigger problem/threat to all of us on a daily basis, here are only a couple of examples:
- first of all, Arabs are fleeing from their "beloved" failing countries and are flooding major western countries who are just now starting to become aware of the issue, trying to stop their massive immigration, though for some its a little too late. For instance Belgium's largest city - Brussels population is now made of 20% Muslims! Many of Brussels original residents are moving out nearing the day of Brussels becoming the first major European capital to be of Muslim majority. Muslim immigration brought a lot of poverty and crime with it, i.e. its not like all/most immigrant are scientists or engineers etc. contributing to society, they usually blend right in with the weaker parts of the population and quickly get involved in crime such drug dealing auto theft etc.
- Instable Muslim regimes attaining weapons of mass destruction are a direct threat to countries within their missiles range, and to any other western country via the possibility of weapons like this easily falling to the hands of terrorist and other highest bidders who seek to terrorize western countries.
- ok, just one more... Since 9/11 there were more than 10000 terrorist attacks carried out by Muslim terrorists.
Source for some more interesting facts.
I don't think we should just sit and have a laugh at those failing Arab countries, since they are becoming a bigger problem/threat to all of us on a daily basis, here are only a couple of examples:
- first of all, Arabs are fleeing from their "beloved" failing countries and are flooding major western countries who are just now starting to become aware of the issue, trying to stop their massive immigration, though for some its a little too late. For instance Belgium's largest city - Brussels population is now made of 20% Muslims! Many of Brussels original residents are moving out nearing the day of Brussels becoming the first major European capital to be of Muslim majority. Muslim immigration brought a lot of poverty and crime with it, i.e. its not like all/most immigrant are scientists or engineers etc. contributing to society, they usually blend right in with the weaker parts of the population and quickly get involved in crime such drug dealing auto theft etc.
- Instable Muslim regimes attaining weapons of mass destruction are a direct threat to countries within their missiles range, and to any other western country via the possibility of weapons like this easily falling to the hands of terrorist and other highest bidders who seek to terrorize western countries.
- ok, just one more... Since 9/11 there were more than 10000 terrorist attacks carried out by Muslim terrorists.
Source for some more interesting facts.
1prophet
Diamond Member
- Aug 17, 2005
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I remember reading that article...after I read that I called my parents immediately and asked if we were first or second cousins
They assured me no as they were part of the 50% that didn't marry a cousin ...I was relieved Interestingly enough many in high levels of government was also somehow related to Saddam....of course at that point there was slow encouragement of marrying outside any relatives to you, but taking out the Saddam Govt pretty much reversed that.
But before we absolutely freak out we should know that we have a history of marrying cousins as well...thank God that is getting less and less at the moment
http://www.cousincouples.com/?page=facts
I only point this out to balance the point that it isn't very long ago where it was common. I remember my Biotech teacher in HS telling us that in "her" time (She must have been 55 or so 6 years ago) it was a very common thing to see.
Does that mean I prefer it? OH he\\\\\\\\\\ no
Although this is entirely getting off topic...
Sooo basically continue as we do? If we operate in their lands and affect their people, it MIGHT just MIGHT be in our interests if they view us more benevolently.
Yes but we often associate Arab society with Islamic society, since both go hand in hand (currently). Anyhow, that's how the people in this thread phrased it so I was just going with that.
Sorry.
Wait, are you saying the heavily muslim Southeast Asian nations
f**ked up? Well, they are. Very much so.
Ah, that's it. Let's rationalize this was the, "It's the lands fault, not the religions." Case and point, the ME will always remain until there is a cleansing of Islamic society (not the people, the society) or total extermination. Modern and progressive countries like Israel are being demanded they cooperate with countries who cannot deal with such attributes. What they don't have they take, and if they don't take, they kill. That's how they work.
Irrelevant? What does hypocrisy have to do with anything?
That's like people trying to numb the Holocaust with mentions of the Inquisition, or Albanian genocide. It's just ridiculous.
Uh, the hotbeds you mentioned are overwhelming populated with muslims and established muslim governments/theocracies.
Nooo....
Wait, this is another one of those [you are all xenophobes, intolerant, bigot, blah blah blah] for just stating the obvious?
These countries are f**ked up because of Islam. Period.
Hell, forget about the extremes, even the moderate countries s**k @ss. You would be screaming ACLU to high heaven if you had to be a citizen in the UAE or Egypt.
Religious social conservatism? You are referring to the native religious dominance, right?
Ok I'm getting tired of your generalizations. If you take Earth as a whole, it had a long history of religious warfare. See how I did that?
Refrain from being steep fact crunches and then attacking it with the gross misrepresentation (i.e, muslims r teh devilz) because it will get you no where.
This is wishful thinking. They resented non-muslims (infidels) well before any slight foreign presence. Excuses excuses excuses...
1prophet
Diamond Member
- Aug 17, 2005
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Originally posted by: magomago
I remember reading that article...after I read that I called my parents immediately and asked if we were first or second cousins
Interestingly enough many in high levels of government was also somehow related to Saddam....of course at that point there was slow encouragement of marrying outside any relatives to you, but taking out the Saddam Govt pretty much reversed that.
But before we absolutely freak out we should know that we have a history of marrying cousins as well...thank God that is getting less and less at the moment
http://www.cousincouples.com/?page=facts
I only point this out to balance the point that it isn't very long ago where it was common. I remember my Biotech teacher in HS telling us that in "her" time (She must have been 55 or so 6 years ago) it was a very common thing to see.
Does that mean I prefer it? OH he\\\\\\\\\\ no
America has had its share of Hatfields and McCoys and the common joke about the southern states of marrying in the family does have its basis in this.
I believe intermarriage between cultures and peoples can make for a better society by negating clan or tribal loyalties.
Alexander the Great used this concept when he conquered the known world by having his soldiers intermarry with the locals in order to break the tribal/clan bonds that could have caused problems.
Arab society and Muslim society don't go hand and hand. Sorry but that is a very broad generalization you are making. The customs and traditions found in the Middle-East are not all held by other Muslims around the world. In fact there are many traditions and customs in the region which pre-date Islam and despite being frowned upon or discouraged are still practiced still only in the Middle-East.
When was the last time you heard major news events involving Southeast Asia on the same scale and scope as the Middle-East? While Southeast Asia has it's issues they are nowhere near the size and scope as those found in the Middle-East. If you want to over sensationalize go right ahead but you haven't proven a point yet.
The point was that there has never really ever been a period of relative peace and prosperity in the region. Or a period where the common man/women had a major role in determining the future for his/her nation without meddling foreigners or power hungry tyrants. As for your Holocaust analogy it is truly absurd and off topic.
Are non-Muslim nations like Sri Lanka, most of Central and South America along with the majority of Christian African nations like Kenya, Rwanda, etc with their histories of civil wars and dictators overwhelmingly Muslim? No they are not but I doubt you'd care but the point stands that folks like you want to use the regions very trouble past to further cement you hateful views.
[/quote]
Maybe it's because deep down inside you are one but you just haven't come to grips with it. You rather just rationalize your hatred by calling everyone else a animal in order to prop up your ego up and not make youself feel as ugly as you sound.
Those are not moderate nations. Those nations under the control of dictators and monarchs who play a power sharing game with the religious elite. Of course those nations would do well with a home brewed ACLU style organization and hopefully one day they'll have their own equivalent to progress them into a more Liberal society dispite your attempts to mock.
Religious social conservatism is the bane of the Middle-East no matter what the religion period. As a whole it has cause more problems for people there then anything else.
And using your logic I could go around calling the all African peoples animals or Central and South American peoples animals because they have yet to "get their act together" as you flat out stated in your previous postings. The reality of the situation is that there is a huge amount of history in the region which is also laden with an over abundance of religious social conservatism of which has been around for eons in that part of the world.
Your statement is very dis-ingenious. You make the presumption that "we" somehow "operate" to better "their" lives when history has proven we'd pick a dictator over true democracy/freedom if it gets us what we want in the region which is namely their oil.
Name one nation that welcomes meddling foreigners? The whole of Africa has a great disdain for the majority of Western European nations which have had formal colonies in their lands. In fact there is more angst against Europeans in Africa then there is against the US because of the European ( using your words ) "presence" in their continent. If you were to also go to Asia and you'll see the same type of resentment toward foreigners and foriegn nations who have overstayed their welcome.
It's the truth.
So..?
Not necessarily. Take a gander at Europe. The same practices and culture are being carried over to the modern world. These people refuse to assimilate, and instead impose their ideals on the public and sandbag anyone who say nay. Naturally, this is all sanctioned by the native government.
Are you referring to muslim happenings? Well, it's so common that it's no longer deemed internationally news worthy. The cherry picking agenda carrying for-profit political correct media conglomerates of the world refuse to publish information that the public couldn't deal with. Why upset the customer, right?
If you read up on news that is NATIVE to the country (say, the Indonesia) you'll find plenty of stories about the newly established muslim majority who are imposing their versions of civil rights on the previous majority. Again, those who say nay are executed or forced to leave. Shocking.
Do you deny?
All land that is blessed with the religion of peace is almost always turned to dirt.
If you consider truth to be sensationalized, I'm not stopping ya. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how ridiculous. That's why I love America, too bad it wouldn't float in the countries you are defending.
Well, Israel begs to differ. A country bombarded with neighbors who are largely intolerant of anything non-Islamic pale in comparison to Israel, in all societal terms. Israel is most like any western nation, which says a lot considering their location.
Right.
.
So what? I guess that fact justifies all their bizarre behaviors and social policies. The Jews in Europe before the Holocaust experienced constant "meddling" *cough*pogroms* cough* yet I don't see them screaming bloody murder over every tick.
Being wronged is not an excuse. Every nation/ethnicty on Earth has been wronged at some point in their history, big deal.
Ok.
I hope it includes how it became what it is as many mathematical models and science basics that we use today are of their descent, Algebra for instance.
So?
BTW, our Arabic # system was actually sourced from the Hindu's. The Arabs had a habit of taking credit for discoveries/innovations not their own.
Drift3r careful with Noobtastic...you could potentially...err scratch that....you WILL waste much energy on him and never get anywhere about anything.
He apparantly calls arabs theives for not giving credit where it is due (LAWLLL????? When did anyone make this claim? bwahahaha.), but algebra can be easily brushed aside...perhaps he sucks at Algebra which might explain his hatred for Arabs
I can't wait till he starts bashing on European Societies - although we won't know if he hates libneitz or newton until we find out if his interpretation of a derivative of a f(x) is either df(x)/dx or f'(x)
If anything the exchange of information that Arabs helped to provide was crucial - places like Athens didn't hit the glory days all on their own...they just incorporated a lot of good ideas together in a very short period of time which helped bring about their rise. Increasing the speed of information exchange is always something very important.
Anyways...interestingly enough we are offtopic again...how amazing.
He apparantly calls arabs theives for not giving credit where it is due (LAWLLL????? When did anyone make this claim? bwahahaha.), but algebra can be easily brushed aside...perhaps he sucks at Algebra which might explain his hatred for Arabs
I can't wait till he starts bashing on European Societies - although we won't know if he hates libneitz or newton until we find out if his interpretation of a derivative of a f(x) is either df(x)/dx or f'(x)
If anything the exchange of information that Arabs helped to provide was crucial - places like Athens didn't hit the glory days all on their own...they just incorporated a lot of good ideas together in a very short period of time which helped bring about their rise. Increasing the speed of information exchange is always something very important.
Anyways...interestingly enough we are offtopic again...how amazing.
The search for the roots of violence is a search to explain the violence of others without ever seeing the violence in us and its true source. All violence is the projection of self hate on others and the willingness and lust of that violence for revenge on those who made us violent long before we met them.
You are the source of all violence. There is only love and the delusion of its absence. You are now the only thing that can change. Only you can awaken from your dream even after you've killed every living thing. We are in this world upside down and backwards.
You are the source of all violence. There is only love and the delusion of its absence. You are now the only thing that can change. Only you can awaken from your dream even after you've killed every living thing. We are in this world upside down and backwards.
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