Why, after all we've seen, is Congress handing Bush a blank check?

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: slash196
Actually, the wording is still ambiguous enough that nearly any treatment could be justified under it. I know that you aren't worried about being detained because your lips are firmly wrapped around the establishment's junk, but this bill is worrysome to those of us actually capable of independent thought, because now WE can be arrested, thrown in jail, and executed without trial, habeas corpus, or any form of legal redress.

I have not been able to read the bill in its entirety, so could you please show me (quote, link) how this bill may apply to US citizens?

Is there some clause that allows interrogations against US citizens under X cirxumstances? Because prior to this bill, ALL military/CIA interrogations were prohibited against bonafied US persons. Has this bill changed that?

show me.

 

[slash196]

Enemy combatants is defined in the bill as anyone who gives material support or aid to the enemy. If a US citizen donated money to a charity that turned out to be a terrorist front, they could be classified as an enemy combatant. Moreover, since this bill says that sealed evidence and coerced testimony are allowed, the following action is completely legal:

You, a law abiding citizen, are arrested in your home. You are accused of plotting an attack on the United States. You are deprived of sleep, hung by your feet, and starved, for as long as it takes until you confess. You are never given a chance to see the evidence against you, or consult with a lawyer. Your confession is put before a military tribunal, where the judge is given assurances that your confession is reliable. You are convicted of treason without a chance to testify, sentenced to death, and executed. No one is told what happened to you. And it is perfectly, absolutely legal under the new law.

Whether this happens or not, the simple fact that it's now allowed is absolutely disgusting.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: slash196
Enemy combatants is defined in the bill as anyone who gives material support or aid to the enemy. If a US citizen donated money to a charity that turned out to be a terrorist front, they could be classified as an enemy combatant. Moreover, since this bill says that sealed evidence and coerced testimony are allowed, the following action is completely legal:

You, a law abiding citizen, are arrested in your home. You are accused of plotting an attack on the United States. You are deprived of sleep, hung by your feet, and starved, for as long as it takes until you confess. You are never given a chance to see the evidence against you, or consult with a lawyer. Your confession is put before a military tribunal, where the judge is given assurances that your confession is reliable. You are convicted of treason without a chance to testify, sentenced to death, and executed. No one is told what happened to you. And it is perfectly, absolutely legal under the new law.

Whether this happens or not, the simple fact that it's now allowed is absolutely disgusting.

please link me to the portion of the bill that says so. that's all i ask. I'm reading it now and see nothing wherein a US citizen is subject to the interrogation methods outlined in the bill, unless, perhaps, said person was caught in a war zone supporting the enemy or baring arms against US personnel.

 

[slash196]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: slash196
Enemy combatants is defined in the bill as anyone who gives material support or aid to the enemy. If a US citizen donated money to a charity that turned out to be a terrorist front, they could be classified as an enemy combatant. Moreover, since this bill says that sealed evidence and coerced testimony are allowed, the following action is completely legal:

You, a law abiding citizen, are arrested in your home. You are accused of plotting an attack on the United States. You are deprived of sleep, hung by your feet, and starved, for as long as it takes until you confess. You are never given a chance to see the evidence against you, or consult with a lawyer. Your confession is put before a military tribunal, where the judge is given assurances that your confession is reliable. You are convicted of treason without a chance to testify, sentenced to death, and executed. No one is told what happened to you. And it is perfectly, absolutely legal under the new law.

Whether this happens or not, the simple fact that it's now allowed is absolutely disgusting.

please link me to the portion of the bill that says so. that's all i ask. I'm reading it now and see nothing wherein a US citizen is subject to the interrogation methods outlined in the bill, unless, perhaps, said person was caught in a war zone supporting the enemy or baring arms against US personnel.

I could very easily do so, but instead I'd like to take issue with an implication that you made in this post. If I understand you correctly, you don't give two sh!ts that innocent people can be executed, as long as they aren't US citizens. How, exactly, does that work in your twisted brain?

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: palehorse74
This bill meerly spells out and clarifies what was previously vague, ambiguous, and open to interpretation by every individual conducting an interrogation. Now, rather than said individual having to decide whether his method is legal or not, interrogators have a list of methods that they can refer to and utilize effectively.

period.

All you people screaming about this being a "Torture bill" are class-A morons. You also have no idea how to fight and win a war.

g'day.

Your kind has been at war for thousands of years. You know nothing at all about winning because your thinking insures that war will always be endless. You bind yourself to the wheel of Karma and endless spin. No point in wishing you a good day since your own wish for hell is so much stronger you won't be able to hear.

We destroyed Germany, we nuked Japan, but you're going to sit here and tell us that brutal measures against our enemy creates endless war? The problem with entirely pacifist views are that you'll either fight to survive, or some aggressor comes along and kills you.