WHS in a virtual machine?

[Falloutboy]

was woundering if its possible to have a WHS run inside a VM? basically what i'm thinking is I have my HTPC that doubles as my server atm. was woundering if its possibly to load a VM up on the HTPC that would run WHS.

 

[RebateMonger]

Yeah, I've done that.

There's a couple of things you need to consider:

Is the host computer going to be subject to possible infections from Internet browsing, email, etc.?

Is the host computer going to be stable (not freezing)?
Depending on the Virtual Host software used, you'll need to pay attention to the virtual disk system being used. With MS Virtual Server 2005 R2, for instance, you need to specify the virtual disk as SCSI. Google for the specific technique to use to make this work.

You probably can't run Automatic Updates on the host PC. If the Host reboots after Windows Updates, it's the same as turning off the power switch on your virtualized Windows Home Server. Updates on the Host will need to be done manually (after shutting down the virtualized WHS).

 

[bsobel]

You probably can't run Automatic Updates on the host PC. If the Host reboots after Windows Updates, it's the same as turning off the power switch on your virtualized Windows Home Server. Updates on the Host will need to be done manually (after shutting down the virtualized WHS).

You should configure your host to suspend vms at shutdown and start them at system startup, this removes this issue entirely. I let me hyper-v machine patch and all of its vms restore nice and cleanly.

 

[bsobel]

It will work, but your really want your whs in charge of the disks its on. If you just wanted to use some functionality (such as backup) it will work. If you really wanted to take advantage of drive extender (etc) I think a vm wouldnt be optimal.

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: bsobel
You should configure your host to suspend vms at shutdown and start them at system startup, this removes this issue entirely. I let me hyper-v machine patch and all of its vms restore nice and cleanly.

You can do that in Hyper-V, but Windows Virtual Server 2005 R2 isn't quite that smart. You can tell the child partition to shut down or "Save State" AFTER the "Virtual Server" service is stopped, but the host OS is likely to be shutdown before the "Save State" or "Shutdown" action can be completed. At least that's what happens on my own virtualized WHS server when it's running under "Virtual Server 2005".

Since the OP wants to run a media center, he/she likely won't be running Hyper-V or ESXi (can't access a TV tuner and other AV hardware). So the virtualization software would likely be MS Virtual Server, VMWare Server, or Virtual Box. MS Virtual PC has had disk size limitations that would handicap WHS.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger

Originally posted by: bsobel
You should configure your host to suspend vms at shutdown and start them at system startup, this removes this issue entirely. I let me hyper-v machine patch and all of its vms restore nice and cleanly.

You can do that in Hyper-V, but Windows Virtual Server 2005 R2 isn't quite that smart. You can tell the child partition to shut down or "Save State" AFTER the "Virtual Server" service is stopped, but the host OS is likely to be shutdown before the "Save State" or "Shutdown" action can be completed. At least that's what happens on my own virtualized WHS server when it's running under "Virtual Server 2005".

Ouch

Since the OP wants to run a media center, he/she likely won't be running Hyper-V or ESXi (can't access a TV tuner and other AV hardware). So the virtualization software would likely be MS Virtual Server, VMWare Server, or Virtual Box. MS Virtual PC has had disk size limitations that would handicap WHS.

By hyper-v I was presuming server 2008 not just the hyper-v server peice, so the tuners should work fine...

Bill

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: bsobel
By hyper-v I was presuming server 2008 not just the hyper-v server peice, so the tuners should work fine...

I see your point, but, that would require using Server 2008 as the "Media Center". Whether that's practical would really depend on what functions the OP wants and if he/she has access to a "reasonably-priced" source of Server 2008. But, yeah, it's certainly possible.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger

Originally posted by: bsobel
By hyper-v I was presuming server 2008 not just the hyper-v server peice, so the tuners should work fine...

I see your point, but, that would require using Server 2008 as the "Media Center". Whether that's practical would really depend on what functions the OP wants and if he/she has access to a "reasonably-priced" source of Server 2008. But, yeah, it's certainly possible.

Ooops, good point, while the tuners would work, I dont think the media center bits are in server 2008 (even optionally)... DUH

 

[lxskllr]

What do you guys think of the general principle of running a file server off of a VM? One of the appealing aspects for me is having 1 virtual disk to move which would make backups, and hardware changes easier. Is the performance hit worth the convenience?

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

I would prefer the backup solution to be a seperate machine.
If you're running your WHS in a VM on a machine you want to back up, what do you do when the main machine takes a crap? and the drive with the VM on it is hosed?

 

[lxskllr]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
I would prefer the backup solution to be a seperate machine.
If you're running your WHS in a VM on a machine you want to back up, what do you do when the main machine takes a crap? and the drive with the VM on it is hosed?

You should be backing up the VM on a regular basis. Backup your virtual HD, and it can be easily brought to life on a machine with completely different hardware.

 

[Falloutboy]

so reading this it should be possible but without the drive extender? the machine this is one is very stable anyway and is being used as a server already I use it to run orb on, it is where all my media is stored and served to my hacked xboxs. I really want some of the nice backup and the drive extender feature was one I wanted as well.

so the other side of the question is can WHS be tweaked to act more like a normal os? I don't use media center, hell I don't even have a front end I just use media player classic home cinema and start movies from the explorer

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: Falloutboy
so reading this it should be possible but without the drive extender?

Although I have not, admittedly, tried it, I know of no reason why Drive Extender wouldn't work on a virtualized WHS. If you create a new virtual hard drive and "insert it" into the WHS virtual server, then WHS should see a "new" hard drive and offer the option to add it to the WHS machine as another storage drive.

Actually, I'm kinda' counting on this working, since, at some point, I'll certainly need to add a second hard drive to my (Hyper-V-virtualized) Windows Home Server. I plan to put another physical hard drive into my server, tell Hyper-V to put a Virtual Disk on it, and then add that virtual disk into my virtual WHS server.

 

[XBoxLPU]

Has anyone had experience with SageTV on a WHS box?

 

[Twista]

eww no

 

[Falloutboy]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger

Originally posted by: Falloutboy
so reading this it should be possible but without the drive extender?

Although I have not, admittedly, tried it, I know of no reason why Drive Extender wouldn't work on a virtualized WHS. If you create a new virtual hard drive and "insert it" into the WHS virtual server, then WHS should see a "new" hard drive and offer the option to add it to the WHS machine as another storage drive.

Actually, I'm kinda' counting on this working, since, at some point, I'll certainly need to add a second hard drive to my (Hyper-V-virtualized) Windows Home Server. I plan to put another physical hard drive into my server, tell Hyper-V to put a Virtual Disk on it, and then add that virtual disk into my virtual WHS server.

this was what i was thinkin... might test it with some smaller old drives

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger

Originally posted by: Falloutboy
so reading this it should be possible but without the drive extender?

Although I have not, admittedly, tried it, I know of no reason why Drive Extender wouldn't work on a virtualized WHS. If you create a new virtual hard drive and "insert it" into the WHS virtual server, then WHS should see a "new" hard drive and offer the option to add it to the WHS machine as another storage drive.

Actually, I'm kinda' counting on this working, since, at some point, I'll certainly need to add a second hard drive to my (Hyper-V-virtualized) Windows Home Server. I plan to put another physical hard drive into my server, tell Hyper-V to put a Virtual Disk on it, and then add that virtual disk into my virtual WHS server.

That indeed should work.... Weird, but should work

 

[dclive]

I'm running WHS (and a few 2003s) on an 8GB quad 2.4, running ESXi. Works great! I couldn't be happier with it.

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: dclive
I'm running WHS (and a few 2003s) on an 8GB quad 2.4, running ESXi. Works great! I couldn't be happier with it.

Mine's Hyper-V, but my setup is otherwise identical to yours. I'm quite happy with it so far. I run WHS in 512MB of memory and it consumes a tiny amount of CPU time from my Quad CPU.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger

Originally posted by: dclive
I'm running WHS (and a few 2003s) on an 8GB quad 2.4, running ESXi. Works great! I couldn't be happier with it.

Mine's Hyper-V, but my setup is otherwise identical to yours. I'm quite happy with it so far. I run WHS in 512MB of memory and it consumes a tiny amount of CPU time from my Quad CPU.

Agreed. It's shocking how inefficient things were before virtualization. I can easily run everything - 4 - 8 servers - on a single core of my quad core CPU and most of the time I'd never notice.