Wholley crap - F-35s achieving a freaking 15 to 1 kill ratio at Red Flag!

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IronWing

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
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Doesn't that pretty much justify the F-35 as an excellent plane, despite the budget overruns and what negative things people have been saying about it?
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Our American Cousin was a great play as well.
 
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Zorba

Zorba

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Oct 22, 1999
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SaltyNuts said:
Check out this article:

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/us-air-force-general-describes-171115721.html

15-to-1 kill ratio? That sounds amazing. Doesn't that pretty much justify the F-35 as an excellent plane, despite the budget overruns and what negative things people have been saying about it?

Thanks!
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Doesn't count when the 15 are F4s... ;)

It would be interesting to know what aircraft it was actually against, and if both sides were on a level playing field.
 
MongGrel

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
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I think F-15's still have about a 150-1 kill ratio, and that is even having been in actual use.

Granted it is getting long in the tooth.
 
ultimatebob

ultimatebob

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Jul 1, 2001
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Weird... wasn't someone here trying to convince us that the F-35 was crap just a few months ago?

Does that person work for Boeing by any chance? ;)
 
MongGrel

MongGrel

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Dec 3, 2013
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ultimatebob said:
Weird... wasn't someone here trying to convince us that the F-35 was crap just a few months ago?

Does that person work for Boeing by any chance? ;)
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It's radically overpriced, and the money could have been better spent elsewhere.

Yeah, we need more nukes also :rolleyes:
 
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spacejamz

spacejamz

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Mar 31, 2003
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like the article states, it is no longer just about the plane/pilot....

"I hope over time we can actually evolve our discussion from platform vs. platform ... to a network vs. network," said Goldfein, who denied that a single Chinese jet would ever face off against a single US jet.

"It's not about what the F-35, or the J-20, or the F-22, or the J-31 can actually do in a one vs. one. It's an interesting dialogue to have, but it's not very compelling because we're not going to ever have the F-35 in there by itself — ever. We do family of systems," said Goldfein.

According to Goldfein, the battle doesn't start when planes see or detect each other as they did in generations past.

"The cyber campaign had been raging ... The space campaign has been raging" before the F-35 even gets into position, and the pilot is tuned into every development along the way.

By the time the F-35 pushes across the line and meets "the most robust enemy integrated air defense system we could put up against him," the F-35 has absolutely unparalleled situational awareness, and is primed to shape the fight to his liking from the outset, according to Goldfein.
 
S

Skyclad1uhm1

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Aug 10, 2001
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ultimatebob said:
Weird... wasn't someone here trying to convince us that the F-35 was crap just a few months ago?

Does that person work for Boeing by any chance? ;)
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The problem with it is that it doesn't perform well if the weather conditions are anything but perfect.
 
xthetenth

xthetenth

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spacejamz said:
like the article states, it is no longer just about the plane/pilot....
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It hasn't been since some point probably during WW2, depending on whether you include doctrine or require external management of airborne assets. Early war CAP direction might count, and stuff like the big blue blanket from late in the war certainly does and did things that the planes alone couldn't even hope to manage.
 
spacejamz

spacejamz

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xthetenth said:
It hasn't been since some point probably during WW2, depending on whether you include doctrine or require external management of airborne assets. Early war CAP direction might count, and stuff like the big blue blanket from late in the war certainly does and did things that the planes alone couldn't even hope to manage.
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I don't disagree but with the way everything is so connected now it is a huge difference...I can't even imagine the amount of data they have at they have to process now before they actually engage an enemy...
 
xthetenth

xthetenth

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spacejamz said:
I don't disagree but with the way everything is so connected now it is a huge difference...I can't even imagine the amount of data they have at they have to process now before they actually engage an enemy...
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Yep. The way the plane interacts with the overall system is a huge deal, about as big as the entire rest of the project put together, and because everything to do with it is trying to push the state of the art, it's a wildly overgrown project. However, we are starting to see the fruits of that effort.
 
G

Genx87

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Apr 8, 2002
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Is this how Skynet is formed? When does the system become self aware?

Anyways these systems always become successful. The complaint from me are the corruption, cost over runs, and delays.
 
Thebobo

Thebobo

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T

tynopik

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Aug 10, 2004
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Thebobo said:
The link goes to general yahoo news nothing about F-35
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US Air Force general describes how the F-35 would take on China's J-31 competitor

laid out how the US would use F-35s to fight against high-end threats like China's J-31 or J-20
he made it clear that the F-35 could dominate.
asked questions about the F-35's role in the Pacific
Asked specifically how the F-35 stacks up to China's J-31
"It's not about what the F-35, or the J-20, or the F-22, or the J-31 can actually do in a one vs. one.
we're not going to ever have the F-35 in there by itself — ever
Goldfein gave an example of how an F-35B led 100 aircraft into battle
The space campaign has been raging" before the F-35 even gets into position
By the time the F-35 pushes across the line
the F-35 has absolutely unparalleled situational awareness
The F-35 can maneuver forces against high-value targets, coordinate search-and-rescue for downed aircraft, and slam enemy air defenses all at once.
the fusion of information that he's getting from both in his cockpit and every other aspect of the network — that's the F-35
At Red Flag, the F-35 absolutely slaughtered the competition
F-35Bs, the Marine Corps variant, have already deployed to Japan
F-35As, the Air Force variant, will likely join later this year
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slag

slag

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Dec 14, 2000
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In case of real battle, we just turn on our jamming and, just like on BSG, the enemy planes will tumble out of the sky.
 
spacejamz

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
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slag said:
In case of real battle, we just turn on our jamming and, just like on BSG, the enemy planes will tumble out of the sky.
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unless their anti-jamming defeats our jamming but then we would turn on our anti jamming jamming system and then all would be right in the world again...
 
D

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
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spacejamz said:
like the article states, it is no longer just about the plane/pilot....

"I hope over time we can actually evolve our discussion from platform vs. platform ... to a network vs. network," said Goldfein, who denied that a single Chinese jet would ever face off against a single US jet.

"It's not about what the F-35, or the J-20, or the F-22, or the J-31 can actually do in a one vs. one. It's an interesting dialogue to have, but it's not very compelling because we're not going to ever have the F-35 in there by itself — ever. We do family of systems," said Goldfein.

According to Goldfein, the battle doesn't start when planes see or detect each other as they did in generations past.

"The cyber campaign had been raging ... The space campaign has been raging" before the F-35 even gets into position, and the pilot is tuned into every development along the way.

By the time the F-35 pushes across the line and meets "the most robust enemy integrated air defense system we could put up against him," the F-35 has absolutely unparalleled situational awareness, and is primed to shape the fight to his liking from the outset, according to Goldfein.
Click to expand...

This, on top of the facts there's too many details concerning the engagement parameters left out, we're not going to see like, a lone f35 in white-knuckle combat against a squadron of $COUNTRY_FIGHTERS. This is like comparing the performance of a single US carrier against some_fleet of ships, instead of a carrier *group*.
 
Pulsar

Pulsar

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Mar 3, 2003
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Skyclad1uhm1 said:
The problem with it is that it doesn't perform well if the weather conditions are anything but perfect.
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Dude. Just. Fucking. Stop. Your comment is asinine.

The F-35 and F-22 aren't mean to be 'fighter' aircraft. Never really were, never really will be. They are meant to be a connected weapons platform that utilizes information from multiple sources to hit other aircraft from distance. To take out defenses who don't know they are there. This has been stated over, and over, and over again. These planes are packed with avionics and electronics far beyond what the F-16's and F-15's carry, and THAT is their primary advantage. Not their guns, or their missles. They are meant to connect with ground control radar systems, early warning aircraft, drone telemetry, satellite imaging, and dozens of other conduits of information to give their pilots the ultimate advantage.

If you don't get it, fine. Move on. Just stop embarrassing yourself.
 
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