Who will win be the F1 champion this year?

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,939
6
81
Nah, Schumi will win, he's too good not to.

The commentators said Montoya had his rhythm broken near the end of last race and gave up chasing Schumacher for the win.
Schumi will be champion because he keeps pushing right the way to the end, even when he knows he can't win.
 
Aug 16, 2001
22,529
4
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Yes I am. Heading out to achieve great things in just a bit.

Just got a Mod warning by PM about my sig so I better be quick.
(I've had it since 'you_know_when')
 

boyRacer

Lifer
Oct 1, 2001
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Schumacher... just because he's with Ferrari. Hahaha... :p That tire fiasco a few weeks ago sure got the anti-Schumahcer/Ferrari people having a party... :(
 
Aug 16, 2001
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The tire thing was just pathetic. Bridgestone is loosing ground. They probably had this idea for a long time but they were still in the lead. Now that they're in trouble they pull this one to gain something. Lame!
 

boyRacer

Lifer
Oct 1, 2001
18,569
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Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
The tire thing was just pathetic. Bridgestone is loosing ground. They probably had this idea for a long time but they were still in the lead. Now that they're in trouble they pull this one to gain something. Lame!

Yeah... but you gotta admit Michelin is damn clever. :) That whole thing made F1 look like a joke though...
 
Aug 16, 2001
22,529
4
81
Originally posted by: boyRacer
Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
The tire thing was just pathetic. Bridgestone is loosing ground. They probably had this idea for a long time but they were still in the lead. Now that they're in trouble they pull this one to gain something. Lame!

Yeah... but you gotta admit Michelin is damn clever. :) That whole thing made F1 look like a joke though...


Yup.
It was FIA who screwed up big time. Everything on the car have to pass inspection before and after the race. For some reason FIA changed the rules and only inspect the tires after (or was it before?) the race.
 

boyRacer

Lifer
Oct 1, 2001
18,569
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Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
Originally posted by: boyRacer
Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
The tire thing was just pathetic. Bridgestone is loosing ground. They probably had this idea for a long time but they were still in the lead. Now that they're in trouble they pull this one to gain something. Lame!

Yeah... but you gotta admit Michelin is damn clever. :) That whole thing made F1 look like a joke though...


Yup.
It was FIA who screwed up big time. Everything on the car have to pass inspection before and after the race. For some reason FIA changed the rules and only inspect the tires after (or was it before?) the race.

Yeah big loophole... the rule was written so bad that it couldve been read in two ways. Either that the tire compy only when new or the tires must comply the whole time. What I don't like is Ferrari took the most public crap than anyone else considering it was the FIA's fault. This season is pretty much over because if Ferrari wins... it was because they were 'sore losers' or if Williams/McLaren wins... it was because they had 'cheating tires'... blah blah blah... :(
 

hominid skull

Senior member
Nov 13, 1999
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Michelin tyres were legal as the rules stood before ferrari winged. They stated that the maximum tread width WHEN NEW does not exceed 270mm. It's black and white, Bridgestone are just sore that they didn't think of it before. Changing regulations during the year, especially after a prod from one team, is not the way to go.

I hope montoya does it, it'll be the best for Formula one overall.
 

boyRacer

Lifer
Oct 1, 2001
18,569
0
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Originally posted by: hominid skull
Michelin tyres were legal as the rules stood before ferrari winged. They stated that the maximum tread width WHEN NEW does not exceed 270mm. It's black and white, Bridgestone are just sore that they didn't think of it before. Changing regulations during the year, especially after a prod from one team, is not the way to go.

I hope montoya does it, it'll be the best for Formula one overall.

77) Quantity and type of tyres :
a) During the Event no driver may use more than forty dry-weather tyres and twenty eight wet-weather tyres. From the forty dry-weather tyres each driver will be allocated twelve (six front and six rear) for use on the first day of practice, these tyres may not be used at any other time during the Event. No more than eight (four front and four rear) of the twelve tyres allocated for the first day of practice may be of one specification. Before the second qualifying practice begins each driver must nominate which specification of tyre he will use for the remainder of the Event.
b) All dry-weather tyres must incorporate circumferential grooves square to the wheel axis and around the entire circumference of the contact surface of each tyre.
c) Each front dry-weather tyre, when new, must incorporate 4 grooves which are :
- arranged symmetrically about the centre of the tyre tread ;
- at least 14mm wide at the contact surface and which taper uniformly to a minimum of 10mm at the lower surface ;
- at least 2.5mm deep across the whole lower surface ;
- 50mm (+/- 1.0mm) between centres.
Furthermore, the tread width of the front tyres must not exceed 270mm.

d) Each rear dry-weather tyre, when new, must incorporate 4 grooves which are:
- arranged symmetrically about the centre of the tyre tread ;
- at least 14mm wide at the contact surface and which taper uniformly to a minimum of 10mm at the lower surface ;
- at least 2.5mm deep across the whole lower surface ;
- 50mm (+/- 1.0mm) between centres.
The measurements referred to in c) and d) above will be taken when the tyre is fitted to a wheel and inflated to 1.4 bar.


Like I said... it could be read two ways... you can read it with the part that says 'when new'... or you can read it where the 'when new' part only refers to the grooves. It's a loophole... Michelin saw it... Bridgestone didn't. Williams tires in Hungary were 276mm... but it did comply with the rules before the race. Renault's tires in Hungary were within the limit. You're right the tires before this whole thing were indeed legal as the FIA cleared them... but this is the FIA's mistake... and i have no doubt Wiliams or McLaren would've done the same as Ferrari if Bridgestone were caught doing it. We won't see until Indy and Suzuka whether the few extra mm really mattered as much as Bridgestone is making it look like.
 

luvya

Banned
Nov 19, 2001
3,161
2
0
Anyone but Shumi. Dang....I am tired of watching him win!! GO MONTOYA!! GO KIMI!!!
 

CFster

Golden Member
Oct 16, 1999
1,903
0
76
Michelin didn't break any rules. They followed the letter of the law and found a loophole. Bridgestone and Ferrari bitched because they got beat and now the FIA changed the rule.

Everybody's quick to accuse Michelin of cheating, but those must be the same people who forgot that Shumi won the title in '94 with illegal traction control.

Also, Bridgestone has been quite possibly cheating as well, by using a different compound front and rear, since Monaco.

 

boyRacer

Lifer
Oct 1, 2001
18,569
0
0
Originally posted by: CFster
Michelin didn't break any rules. They followed the letter of the law and found a loophole. Bridgestone and Ferrari bitched because they got beat and now the FIA changed the rule.

Everybody's quick to accuse Michelin of cheating, but those must be the same people who forgot that Shumi won the title in '94 with illegal traction control.

Also, Bridgestone has been quite possibly cheating as well, by using a different compound front and rear, since Monaco.

Yes it's a loophole... and the way they exploited is damn brilliant. :) Michelin found another loophole where they made asymetrical grooves where most of the grooves are on the outside of the contact patch... FIA banned that too. :(

Anyway... there was nothing done about 94 because they had no proof... there was nothing done to Bridgestone because there was no proof of that either. They tested the Bridgestones again after Monza and nothing has been done about it again. As far as 'photographic' evidence about the wider tread that Michelin uses... i find that rather hard to believe as well... i might be wrong but hey... it's Formula One... and paranoia is required in F1. :)
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,939
6
81
Originally posted by: boyRacer
Originally posted by: hominid skull
Michelin tyres were legal as the rules stood before ferrari winged. They stated that the maximum tread width WHEN NEW does not exceed 270mm. It's black and white, Bridgestone are just sore that they didn't think of it before. Changing regulations during the year, especially after a prod from one team, is not the way to go.

I hope montoya does it, it'll be the best for Formula one overall.

77) Quantity and type of tyres :
a) During the Event no driver may use more than forty dry-weather tyres and twenty eight wet-weather tyres. From the forty dry-weather tyres each driver will be allocated twelve (six front and six rear) for use on the first day of practice, these tyres may not be used at any other time during the Event. No more than eight (four front and four rear) of the twelve tyres allocated for the first day of practice may be of one specification. Before the second qualifying practice begins each driver must nominate which specification of tyre he will use for the remainder of the Event.
b) All dry-weather tyres must incorporate circumferential grooves square to the wheel axis and around the entire circumference of the contact surface of each tyre.
c) Each front dry-weather tyre, when new, must incorporate 4 grooves which are :
- arranged symmetrically about the centre of the tyre tread ;
- at least 14mm wide at the contact surface and which taper uniformly to a minimum of 10mm at the lower surface ;
- at least 2.5mm deep across the whole lower surface ;
- 50mm (+/- 1.0mm) between centres.
Furthermore, the tread width of the front tyres must not exceed 270mm.

d) Each rear dry-weather tyre, when new, must incorporate 4 grooves which are:
- arranged symmetrically about the centre of the tyre tread ;
- at least 14mm wide at the contact surface and which taper uniformly to a minimum of 10mm at the lower surface ;
- at least 2.5mm deep across the whole lower surface ;
- 50mm (+/- 1.0mm) between centres.
The measurements referred to in c) and d) above will be taken when the tyre is fitted to a wheel and inflated to 1.4 bar.


Like I said... it could be read two ways... you can read it with the part that says 'when new'... or you can read it where the 'when new' part only refers to the grooves. It's a loophole... Michelin saw it... Bridgestone didn't. Williams tires in Hungary were 276mm... but it did comply with the rules before the race. Renault's tires in Hungary were within the limit. You're right the tires before this whole thing were indeed legal as the FIA cleared them... but this is the FIA's mistake... and i have no doubt Wiliams or McLaren would've done the same as Ferrari if Bridgestone were caught doing it. We won't see until Indy and Suzuka whether the few extra mm really mattered as much as Bridgestone is making it look like.

The "when new" part refers to the specification OF THE GROOVES not of anything else to do with the tyre. This, if you read it like it should be read, is obvious.

The furthmore part has nothing linked to being new or used, hence it could be seen either way, and needs to be clarified by the rules. Changing the rules to clarify whether the 270mm refers to new or used is something that has to be done, or people coul dmisinterpret the rules. The FIA changed something which needed to be changed, to ensure people know what the ruling is.

The FIA did leave Williams results in Hungary as being valid, thus they recognised the ambiguity of the rule, and changed it so there was no ambiguity. If you cannot know exactly what the rule means, you should inquire, and then if it needs clarification, it should be changed accordingly.

IMO
 

boyRacer

Lifer
Oct 1, 2001
18,569
0
0
Originally posted by: Lonyo
Originally posted by: boyRacer
Originally posted by: hominid skull
Michelin tyres were legal as the rules stood before ferrari winged. They stated that the maximum tread width WHEN NEW does not exceed 270mm. It's black and white, Bridgestone are just sore that they didn't think of it before. Changing regulations during the year, especially after a prod from one team, is not the way to go.

I hope montoya does it, it'll be the best for Formula one overall.

77) Quantity and type of tyres :
a) During the Event no driver may use more than forty dry-weather tyres and twenty eight wet-weather tyres. From the forty dry-weather tyres each driver will be allocated twelve (six front and six rear) for use on the first day of practice, these tyres may not be used at any other time during the Event. No more than eight (four front and four rear) of the twelve tyres allocated for the first day of practice may be of one specification. Before the second qualifying practice begins each driver must nominate which specification of tyre he will use for the remainder of the Event.
b) All dry-weather tyres must incorporate circumferential grooves square to the wheel axis and around the entire circumference of the contact surface of each tyre.
c) Each front dry-weather tyre, when new, must incorporate 4 grooves which are :
- arranged symmetrically about the centre of the tyre tread ;
- at least 14mm wide at the contact surface and which taper uniformly to a minimum of 10mm at the lower surface ;
- at least 2.5mm deep across the whole lower surface ;
- 50mm (+/- 1.0mm) between centres.
Furthermore, the tread width of the front tyres must not exceed 270mm.

d) Each rear dry-weather tyre, when new, must incorporate 4 grooves which are:
- arranged symmetrically about the centre of the tyre tread ;
- at least 14mm wide at the contact surface and which taper uniformly to a minimum of 10mm at the lower surface ;
- at least 2.5mm deep across the whole lower surface ;
- 50mm (+/- 1.0mm) between centres.
The measurements referred to in c) and d) above will be taken when the tyre is fitted to a wheel and inflated to 1.4 bar.


Like I said... it could be read two ways... you can read it with the part that says 'when new'... or you can read it where the 'when new' part only refers to the grooves. It's a loophole... Michelin saw it... Bridgestone didn't. Williams tires in Hungary were 276mm... but it did comply with the rules before the race. Renault's tires in Hungary were within the limit. You're right the tires before this whole thing were indeed legal as the FIA cleared them... but this is the FIA's mistake... and i have no doubt Wiliams or McLaren would've done the same as Ferrari if Bridgestone were caught doing it. We won't see until Indy and Suzuka whether the few extra mm really mattered as much as Bridgestone is making it look like.

The "when new" part refers to the specification OF THE GROOVES not of anything else to do with the tyre. This, if you read it like it should be read, is obvious.

The furthmore part has nothing linked to being new or used, hence it could be seen either way, and needs to be clarified by the rules. Changing the rules to clarify whether the 270mm refers to new or used is something that has to be done, or people coul dmisinterpret the rules. The FIA changed something which needed to be changed, to ensure people know what the ruling is.

The FIA did leave Williams results in Hungary as being valid, thus they recognised the ambiguity of the rule, and changed it so there was no ambiguity. If you cannot know exactly what the rule means, you should inquire, and then if it needs clarification, it should be changed accordingly.

IMO

Agreed. The interpretation is vague which is why Ferrari asked for a clarification, which of course every team has a right to. But the fact that Ferrari asked for it got them nothing but crap from anti-ferrari people everywhere. I don't quite understand that... Ron Dennis and Patrick Head said so themselves that they would have done the same. Nevertheless, the manner this was handled by all parties could have been better.
 

boyRacer

Lifer
Oct 1, 2001
18,569
0
0
Originally posted by: pecel
Schummy will win the championship.

No question ask.

lol... your signature does well to hide your bias... :p

but yes i'm a ferrari fanboy too... and i still believe the F2003GA is the best package out there. :)
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
I want Juan Pab to win it. BMW developed a damn fine engine, an adequate chassis, and they deserve to have the driver's championship.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,776
31
81
Originally posted by: jpeyton
I want Juan Pab to win it. BMW developed a damn fine engine, an adequate chassis, and they deserve to have the driver's championship.

I believe Williams does the chasis...
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Originally posted by: jpeyton
I want Juan Pab to win it. BMW developed a damn fine engine, an adequate chassis, and they deserve to have the driver's championship.

I believe Williams does the chasis...

Sorry, I should've put Williams/BMW.
 

CFster

Golden Member
Oct 16, 1999
1,903
0
76
Greeeaaaat.

I hope we go back to Shumacher winning ALL the races! Then F1 would be so interesting to watch again...

Looks like the FIA pulled out their little "red" rulebook and decided Shumi wasn't breaking any rules when he passed somebody going into turn one under a yellow flag. Also, nobody said anything when he came in with slick tires on his second stint (they're supposed to have grooves showing).