WHO urges stiff regulatory curbs on e-cigarettes

[BUTCH1]

I know a few people who quit smoking after 30 -40 years using these E-Cigs for a few weeks - thankfully. It may not work for everyone but is worth a shot.

It would be a mistake to require an adult to get a prescription from a doctor first, just in order try it, since it would be a deterrent for your average adult smoker but I don't have any problem with regulating the sale to minors - just like the sale of cigarettes are now.

The FDA is supposedly gathering information and is planning on issuing their opinions/rulings about E-cigs. IMHO the nicotine-added juices should be regulated like analog cig's are, you would need to be 18 to buy them so online vendors might be fucked as far as selling juice goes. I really hope they don't ban them because they do help a lot in reducing traditional smoking, I now get 4 days out of a pack of cigs whereas I used to smoke a pack/day. Really the E-cig is no different than patches, lozenges, ect, it's another form of NRT but because it resembles smoking so much IMO it has a better rate of success than other NRT's.

 

[OutHouse]

The FDA is supposedly gathering information and is planning on issuing their opinions/rulings about E-cigs. IMHO the nicotine-added juices should be regulated like analog cig's are, you would need to be 18 to buy them so online vendors might be fucked as far as selling juice goes. I really hope they don't ban them because they do help a lot in reducing traditional smoking, I now get 4 days out of a pack of cigs whereas I used to smoke a pack/day. Really the E-cig is no different than patches, lozenges, ect, it's another form of NRT but because it resembles smoking so much IMO it has a better rate of success than other NRT's.

:thumbsup:

 

[Eug]

I went to Indy for the 500 this year and parked right next to us along the main drag was a booth that was selling e-cigs and supplies. The funny thing is that the workers would go behind the booth on break to ... wait for it ... smoke cigarettes!

Me thinks e-cigs ARE a gateway and the tobacco industry knows it and is banking on it...

I too think e-cigs will prove to be a gateway to tobacco use, but so far there isn't good evidence that that is the case.

OTOH, the reason there isn't good evidence for it is because e-cigs are too new. However, there is a trend that suggests that cigarette use in teens is higher in those who have tried e-cigs before than those who have not.

you have to be 18 to buy ecigs. the regulation is there what more do you want?

With FDA oversight, that would mean certain quality levels have to be maintained, and every new e-cig product would require prior approval.

It wouldn't be possible for just some random company to set up shop and start producing e-cigs.

This would also cover advertising.

 

[Phoenix86]

I would not disagree with limiting the regulation to minors, for nicotine. However, I would prefer outright regulation.

For caffeine? Not so much. It's simply much less addictive and harmful than nicotine.

That said, I don't support selling pure caffeine pills or powdered caffeine either. More risk with that than coffee or tea.

BTW, the number of kids trying e-cigs is increasing with time. A study by the CDC in 2012 indicated it was 7% of students in grades 6-12. That number was only 3% in 2011. (The studies included 25000 students and 19000 students respectively.)

Your 99.9% sureness is not backed up by the facts.

OK, I'm just telling you what I see in the stores.

But let's get to facts, because they are important. Start here:

It's simply much less addictive and harmful than nicotine.

and here:

Caffeine is considerably less addictive than nicotine. It's also considerably less harmful than nicotine in usual doses.

The fact you think e-cigs are a gateway TO tobacco is just so far from reality I'm not sure how to respond. People are using, in vast numbers, e-cigs to quit tobacco.

 

[Eug]

The fact you think e-cigs are a gateway TO tobacco is just so far from reality I'm not sure how to respond. People are using, in vast numbers, e-cigs to quit tobacco.

Of course smokers are using e-cigs to quit. But it seem you have chosen to ignore my other posts.

So, I will reiterate the main points.

e-cig experimentation and usage amongst middle and high schoolers is increasing, according to some very large studies. Last number I saw was 7%. What that means is at least 1 in every 14 teens has tried e-cigs, and that data was from a couple of years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if it were higher now.

Furthermore, there is a trend that seems to suggest that those who have tried e-cigs are also more likely to end up smoking cigarettes when they are older. However, the data on that is so far inconclusive, because there is not enough study on that.

 

[Phoenix86]

Of course smokers are using e-cigs to quit. But it seem you have chosen to ignore my other posts.

So, I will reiterate the main points.

e-cig experimentation and usage amongst middle and high schoolers is increasing, according to some very large studies. Last number I saw was 7%. What that means is at least 1 in every 14 teens has tried e-cigs, and that data was from a couple of years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if it were higher now.

Furthermore, there is a trend that seems to suggest that those who have tried e-cigs are also more likely to end up smoking cigarettes when they are older. However, the data on that is so far inconclusive, because there is not enough study on that.

Few things here. First, pretty much everyone agrees they shouldn't be sold to minors. Most shops do this voluntarily, but if it gets enforced good. Minors really aren't the issue here though, but if you want to point at anything regarding e-cigs and tobacco, just look at tobacco use. It's gone down in every category (age) over time.

But like I said, that's not the point. The point is how bad is it compared to things we already accept as normal. Caffeine is similar nicotine and I'd argue not much worse. You stated it was more addictive and harmful.

The harms of all the chemicals involved are quite known. They are all pretty far down on the list of bad shit. There's some questions surrounding vaporizing these known chemicals and how that affects them. I'm interested to know more, but until we have hard data, or even a correlation of data around it why the fuck are we banning/restricting it?

There are hundreds, if not thousands of chemicals we know far less about, that we interact with daily.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Local governments would love for e-cigarettes to be regulated and categorized as a tobacco product considering how many of them bank on sin taxes to fund bond obligations. For example, Cleveland and Cuyahoga county rely on tobacco and alcohol sales to pay for debt service and maintenance on all 3 stadiums built in the 90's -- Browns, Cavs, and Indians.

 

[Eug]

There are hundreds, if not thousands of chemicals we know far less about, that we interact with daily.

Yeah, but we generally don't buy them to inhale them several times a day to get a buzz.

 

[Phoenix86]

Yeah, but we generally don't buy them to inhale them several times a day to get a buzz.

How can you be so obtuse?

 

[Eug]

How can you be so obtuse?

You mean, just like the WHO and the FDA, whom I agree with here?

Seriously, reading through this thread, sometimes it just sounds like a bunch of e-cigging whiners complaining about the WHO and the FDA.

 

[darkswordsman17]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasperh...claims-of-e-cigarettes-are-going-up-in-smoke/

This brought up a point I was making earlier about just because something is safe for ingestion does not make it safe for vaporization and inhalation:

But this isn’t the only bit of bad news for vape inhalers. In the UK, the BBC reported that E-Cigarette liquid sold in the north east of England was found to contain a chemical called diacetyl, which is used to add butterscotch flavor to liquid tobacco.

Whilst this substance is harmless to eat, it is extremely dangerous to inhale. The chemical is known to cause a serious condition called popcorn lung, or bronchiolitis obliterans, an irreversible disease which scars the lung and makes it impossible to breathe properly. This illness has struck workers in popcorn factories, who are known to breathe in vast quantities of diacetyl, as well as ordinary people who eat a lot of popcorn.

Few things here. First, pretty much everyone agrees they shouldn't be sold to minors. Most shops do this voluntarily, but if it gets enforced good. Minors really aren't the issue here though, but if you want to point at anything regarding e-cigs and tobacco, just look at tobacco use. It's gone down in every category (age) over time.

But like I said, that's not the point. The point is how bad is it compared to things we already accept as normal. Caffeine is similar nicotine and I'd argue not much worse. You stated it was more addictive and harmful.

The harms of all the chemicals involved are quite known. They are all pretty far down on the list of bad shit. There's some questions surrounding vaporizing these known chemicals and how that affects them. I'm interested to know more, but until we have hard data, or even a correlation of data around it why the fuck are we banning/restricting it?

There are hundreds, if not thousands of chemicals we know far less about, that we interact with daily.

WTF? Maybe because it contains things we already restrict? Plus it contains stuff we don't fully know yet, and without regulation they could put pretty much whatever the fuck they want in it.

Considering the industry, I'm much more of the mind they should have to prove it's safe before they should be allowed to sell it.

 

[MongGrel]

Quote:
But this isn’t the only bit of bad news for vape inhalers. In the UK, the BBC reported that E-Cigarette liquid sold in the north east of England was found to contain a chemical called diacetyl, which is used to add butterscotch flavor to liquid tobacco.

Whilst this substance is harmless to eat, it is extremely dangerous to inhale. The chemical is known to cause a serious condition called popcorn lung, or bronchiolitis obliterans, an irreversible disease which scars the lung and makes it impossible to breathe properly. This illness has struck workers in popcorn factories, who are known to breathe in vast quantities of diacetyl, as well as ordinary people who eat a lot of popcorn.

=================================================================

Anyone who has been vaping even a short time well aware of diacetly, I imagine.

Probably for years now, but nice of you to point it out.

I'm still against minors having access, but like anything else.

I guess you'd rather have them smoking cigs, which I'm sure are a lot of them out there.

 

[SunnyD]

Anyone who has been vaping even a short time well aware of diacetly, I imagine.

You would think that the entire vaping community, nay, the entire industry would take this into account and simply remove said unsafe compound from their safe product.

 

[Bateluer]

The sooner they outright ban all nicotine products, the better off we'll all be.

 

[John Connor]

I'm about to light up a real smoke. Every time I do it's like a big FUCK YOU! to the regulatory government and the establishment. Oh, pot is alright, but god help you if you smoke tobacco. Epic facepalm!

 

[mnewsham]

The sooner they outright ban all nicotine products, the better off we'll all be.

I use an ecig daily with 0 nicotine, but I am effected just as much by these proposed regulations, it's stupid and nonsensical in my opinion.

 

[master_shake_]

imho

 

[blackangst1]

You would think that the entire vaping community, nay, the entire industry would take this into account and simply remove said unsafe compound from their safe product.

Most, if not all, US ejuice makers have.

 

[surfsatwerk]

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-29061169

E-cigarette criticisms 'alarmist' say researchers

 

[BoberFett]

Somebody is doing something that I don't personally approve of! Quick, somebody call the government! We must STOP IT!

 

[moonbogg]

I don't fully understand the true motives of the various parties who are trying to destroy e-cigs, but I am fully confident that public health is not high on their list. There are several gigantic industries that depend on e-cigs staying small, and better yet, dying.
People really underestimate the lengths that people will go to protect billions of dollars.

 

[Childs]

I would support regulation curtailing the public advertising of these products. They're trying very, very hard to portray e-cigs as sexy and cool to entice people into addiction. I find that morally reprehensible and worthy of government action.

Where do you see ads for ecigs? I don't think I've ever seen any. I always have to do a lot of research to find out what new models are out there, brands of juice, etc.

 

[manimal]

I'm about to light up a real smoke. Every time I do it's like a big FUCK YOU! to the regulatory government and the establishment. Oh, pot is alright, but god help you if you smoke tobacco. Epic facepalm!

You can't be this stupid can you ? The government outlawed drinking anti freeze you gonna chug some tonight ?

Please film it for us.

 

[smackababy]

The government outlawed drinking anti freeze you gonna chug some tonight ?

Please film it for us.

I actually don't think that is illegal. Unless, you are attempting to commit suicide, which is illegal or making someone else drink it, which is poisoning.

Also, the antidote for ethylene glycol poisoning is ethanol. So, if you are going to drink some, just take a few shots of Everclear right after and you'll be fine!

 

[Standpoint]

Just an FYI - the diacetyl thing was based off a single, old study from a single liquid manufactured from a chinese company in the early years of e-cigs. There is virtually NO company today that sells liquid containing diacetyl, except maybe some oddball chinese company that is likely not legitimate in the first place.

100% of USA made liquid contains no diacetyl.