Who knows about roofing?

[geno]

I had a quick question roofing. We're getting the roof done on our house and had some concerns. Is it ever ok to lay shingles on the bare roof without tar paper underneath? There's a section of our roof where I think the roofer ran out and laid shingles on the stripped roof. Is this a big no-no?


I found this : http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/dps/780%20CMR/780059.pdf

Could someone help me interpret this? It's not worded vaguely or anything, but it seems to me I have to have both 1 layer of tar paper (I'm guessing the grade is > 33%) (5905.2.7, page 2) and an ice barrier (5905.2.7.1) above all eaves if there's a finished floor within. I'm not liking this because I don't even know if he put up ice barrier.

 

[Blackjack200]

It partly depends on the pitch of the roof; is it a very steep roof, or is it more flat? A steep roof should shed water without much of a problem, but if you have a very shallow pitched roof, and there are only standard 3 tab asphalt shingles on it... ehhh.......

 

[geno]

It's a steep portion of the roof (couldn't stand on it easily, that's for sure) and we're using architecht shingles instead of 3 tab if that helps

 

[Blackjack200]

To be honest, I'm not quite sure what to tell you. If the guy already installed the shingles there's not much that can be done at this point anyway. I would assume that architectural shingles are similar to 3 tab shingles in having a strip of tar on the back that's supposed to seal each layer against moisture getting blown up and through the cracks by wind, but the felt paper also acts as a vapor barrier. I would just ask the guy if he put felt paper there. If not, and the roof starts leaking in 4-5 years, he should repair it.

Honestly though, steep roofs tend to be very forgiving of shoddy installations, while flatter roofs tend to need replacing after 10-12 years even if the roofers did a very good job. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

 

[Train]

nm

 

[Saint Nick]

Roofing, a common tactic used by creepy, unattractive men that involves slipping flunitrazepam (also known as, roofies) into the drink of an unsuspecting hottie.

 

[Vette73]

No that is not good. Tar paper is very cheap and to not use it is just dumb.

Tar paper is not even that good compared to other items out there now. That and wind-driven rain can get under shingles enough water to cause problems so the tar paper helps protect against that.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: NightDarker
Roofing, a common tactic used by creepy, unattractive men that involves slipping flunitrazepam (also known as, roofies) into the drink of an unsuspecting hottie.

Is this the start of another Bing ad?

 

[Saint Nick]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: NightDarker
Roofing, a common tactic used by creepy, unattractive men that involves slipping flunitrazepam (also known as, roofies) into the drink of an unsuspecting hottie.

Is this the start of another Bing ad?

No...but it should be

 

[Analog]

tar paper is required by code in my area. Check with your locality. We even require iceshield which is a more rigorous tar paper under the shingles on the edges and valleys. CHECK YOUR LOCAL CODE...

 

[amdskip]

Never not use something. Check with your roofer asap on this.

 

[geno]

Originally posted by: Analog
CHECK YOUR LOCAL CODE...

I absolutely will. Is there a specific place you'd suggest I look / ask? Or do you think a call to city hall will do the trick?

 

[geno]

Originally posted by: amdskip
Never not use something. Check with your roofer asap on this.

I did and he says it's fine. Something didn't sound right so I'm looking for second opinions. I might call some other roofers and see what they have to say, if they'd be so willing to lend some free advice.

 

[geno]

Ah, actually, nix my request for more info above.

I found this : http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/dps/780%20CMR/780059.pdf

I've revised my request to ask : Could someone help me interpret this? It's not worded vaguely or anything, but it seems to me I have to have both 1 layer of tar paper (I'm guessing the grade is > 33%) (5905.2.7, page 2) and an ice barrier (5905.2.7.1) above all eaves if there's a finished floor within. I'm not liking this because I don't even know if he put up ice barrier.

 

[BoomerD]

Definitely contact your local building department. Most likely, the roofing contractor had to take out a permit for your house. (it's S.O.P here for any re-roofing project)
Ask the city/county inspector to take a look at the job and render an opinion. MOST will do so at no charge...especially if you suspect less than code installation.
Take it from there.

Personally, I would not accept a re-roof job that didn't have 2 layers of heavy felt under the shingles.

 

[Bill Brasky]

The crew that roofed my parents house were complete tardnuggets. They tried to cut corners, and were obviously liars. A city inspector happened to drive by as they were finishing (wink), and made them tear up most of the roof and do it again. The crew had to roof the house *three times* before they got it right. It sucks having to be a persistent asshole to get the service you paid for, but sometimes it's necessary.

I think your interpretation is correct. 1 layer and ice barrier. Also this may seem obvious, but make sure the tar paper is laid horizontally, not vertically.

 

[imported_weadjust]

I would make him tear the shingles off and install the 15 lb felt paper. You could have warranty problems down the road because the shingle manufacturer requires felt paper under the shingles. The shingles are not installed per the manufacturer's specifications.

Also if you have a wind event and a small section of shingles are blown off the roof decking is exposed with resulting leakage right away. The felt paper offers you a layer of protection and may not leak right away or at all.

 

[IGBT]

what ever you do consider the solar profile. If you use dark material it becomes a solar mass and heats up the house. If you use polar white material it reflects and keeps the house kool and cheaper to HVAC.

 

[dfuze]

I did my own car port roof and when I researched the stuff I read that not only did it provide another barrier to the wood underlayment, but when the sun hits the roof it melts the tar under the shingles to help them adhere to the roof and if you have no paper it will adhere to the underlayment. Then if you ever have to rip it off it will probably pull a lot of the underlayment with it.

 

[Greenman]

Go to the manufacturers website or read the instructions on one of the bundles of shingles. That will tell you what needs to be done to maintain the warranty.

In my area, 15lb felt paper is required under composition shingles.

 

[BUTCH1]

Originally posted by: IGBT
what ever you do consider the solar profile. If you use dark material it becomes a solar mass and heats up the house. If you use polar white material it reflects and keeps the house kool and cheaper to HVAC.

Since the felt layer is covered by the shingles it's color is irrelevant to solar concerns, all felt comes in black anyway. When I had my roof re-done in 2002 I did however choose the lightest white they offered, living in FL it's a concern with the AC running 7 months a year..

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: IGBT
what ever you do consider the solar profile. If you use dark material it becomes a solar mass and heats up the house. If you use polar white material it reflects and keeps the house kool and cheaper to HVAC.

Since the felt layer is covered by the shingles it's color is irrelevant to solar concerns, all felt comes in black anyway. When I had my roof re-done in 2002 I did however choose the lightest white they offered, living in FL it's a concern with the AC running 7 months a year..

color makes a huge diff. if your roof is a solar mass it will overwhelm any felt/insulation and sink heat into the house.

 

[RaiderJ]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
No that is not good. Tar paper is very cheap and to not use it is just dumb.

Tar paper is not even that good compared to other items out there now. That and wind-driven rain can get under shingles enough water to cause problems so the tar paper helps protect against that.

In Alaska we always put 3-6' of Ice & Water Shield back from the wall line to help prevent ice damming. After that it was tar paper and then shingles on top.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: IGBT

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: IGBT
what ever you do consider the solar profile. If you use dark material it becomes a solar mass and heats up the house. If you use polar white material it reflects and keeps the house kool and cheaper to HVAC.

Since the felt layer is covered by the shingles it's color is irrelevant to solar concerns, all felt comes in black anyway. When I had my roof re-done in 2002 I did however choose the lightest white they offered, living in FL it's a concern with the AC running 7 months a year..

color makes a huge diff. if your roof is a solar mass it will overwhelm any felt/insulation and sink heat into the house.

You're not listening...the felt, or tar paper is black...but it's completely covered by shingles, roofing tile, whatever. THOSE materials are the ones to be concerned about color.
I wish the builder of my house would have worried about such things. My roof tiles are an "almost black" charcoal gray...in the heat of summer, my attic exceeds 150F.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: IGBT

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: IGBT
what ever you do consider the solar profile. If you use dark material it becomes a solar mass and heats up the house. If you use polar white material it reflects and keeps the house kool and cheaper to HVAC.

Since the felt layer is covered by the shingles it's color is irrelevant to solar concerns, all felt comes in black anyway. When I had my roof re-done in 2002 I did however choose the lightest white they offered, living in FL it's a concern with the AC running 7 months a year..

color makes a huge diff. if your roof is a solar mass it will overwhelm any felt/insulation and sink heat into the house.

You're not listening...the felt, or tar paper is black...but it's completely covered by shingles, roofing tile, whatever. THOSE materials are the ones to be concerned about color.
I wish the builder of my house would have worried about such things. My roof tiles are an "almost black" charcoal gray...in the heat of summer, my attic exceeds 150F.

Put in an attic fan.