Who is to blame for exacerbating the damage caused by Hurricane Katrina?

[Newell Steamer]

If the reps in the state did that, then they deserve ridicule as well. I do my best to be fair, unlike you, sparky.

You are as fair as Obama's skin.

 

[Darwin333]

This is funny. New Orleans did not have any "natural protection " from hurricanes ever. Crap it was built below sea level with crappy levys to protect it. They were given federal funds to rework the levys over the years but never quite got around to it. and spent the money on pork projects.

It's not a matter of question, it's an absolute fact that wetlands and marshes not only significantly reduce the strength of hurricanes but also absorb a bunch of the storm surge. You see, when hurricanes hit land they can no longer absorb energy from the warm waters and quickly lose energy. That is why hurricanes don't remain cat 4 all the way to Missouri.

 

[realibrad]

It's not a matter of question, it's an absolute fact that wetlands and marshes not only significantly reduce the strength of hurricanes but also absorb a bunch of the storm surge. You see, when hurricanes hit land they can no longer absorb energy from the warm waters and quickly lose energy. That is why hurricanes don't remain cat 4 all the way to Missouri.

You are right about storm surge, but wrong about strength.

Hurricanes build or maintain power with warm wet air. Of all the types of "land" wetlands are the wettest. Wetlands do not have to be in warm or cold areas, so that is not important.

If a hurricane hits a wetland it will lose less energy than any other type of land in the same climate zone. So no, not an absolute fact.

What made NO so bad was the levees breaking down. Not having a storm surge buffer helped nothing for sure, but it would not have helped with the strength. That is dumb.

Dont just take my word for it either.

http://www.actforlibraries.org/how-wetlands-could-minimize-the-effect-of-hurricanes/

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Nope:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewi...-unsure-if-katrina-response-was-obama-s-fault

Why must you take a Brother's efforts and give it to TWO white people instead?

Your post provides further proof that really stupid people do indeed abound.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Your post provides further proof that really stupid people do indeed abound.

So, blaming Katrina recovery efforts on the Koch brothers is on par with blaming how Katrina was responded to,.. on someone who wasn't even in the White House during the time?

2005 (the year of the hurricane) happened well before Obama set foot in the White House (2008).

You need to stop.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

So, blaming Katrina recovery efforts on the Koch brothers is on par with blaming how Katrina was responded to,.. on someone who wasn't even in the White House during the time?

And just who said this? It certainly wasn't me. Perhaps it was one of those little voices in your head. But you do raise a perplexing problem, attempting to identify just who is the bigger idiot here. Tough call.

2005 (the year of the hurricane) happened well before Obama set foot in the White House (2008).

No shit Sherlock!

You need to stop.

Perhaps you should take you own advice. You're embarrassing yourself and are apparently too stupid to realize it.

 

[realibrad]

So, blaming Katrina recovery efforts on the Koch brothers is on par with blaming how Katrina was responded to,.. on someone who wasn't even in the White House during the time?

2005 (the year of the hurricane) happened well before Obama set foot in the White House (2008).

You need to stop.

I think you and Texashiker are the same person but pretending to be on different sides.

 

[Newell Steamer]

You're embarrassing yourself and are apparently too stupid to realize it.

Says the raging moron.

 

[Newell Steamer]

I think you and Texashiker are the same person but pretending to be on different sides.

Yes, yes, I know; Wha, wha did Doc Savage Fan do?

 

[smackababy]

I think you and Texashiker are the same person but pretending to be on different sides.

Judging by their posts, neither one is smart enough to pull off that kind of troll for that long.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Says the raging moron.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

 

[woolfe9998]

You are right about storm surge, but wrong about strength.

Hurricanes build or maintain power with warm wet air. Of all the types of "land" wetlands are the wettest. Wetlands do not have to be in warm or cold areas, so that is not important.

If a hurricane hits a wetland it will lose less energy than any other type of land in the same climate zone. So no, not an absolute fact.

What made NO so bad was the levees breaking down. Not having a storm surge buffer helped nothing for sure, but it would not have helped with the strength. That is dumb.

Dont just take my word for it either.

http://www.actforlibraries.org/how-wetlands-could-minimize-the-effect-of-hurricanes/

Whatever the precise mechanism, wetlands appear to play a significant role in mitigating hurricane damage:

http://seagrant.noaa.gov/portals/0/..._tools_reports/value_hurricane_protection.pdf

Coastal wetlands reduce the damaging effects of hurricanes on coastal communities. A regression model using 34 major US hurricanes since 1980 with the natural log of damage per unit gross domestic product in the hurricane swath as the dependent variable and the natural logs of
wind speed and wetland area in the swath as the independent variables was highly significant and explained 60% of the variation in relative damages.

That sounds like it's a major factor, not a minor one. I don't know the relative importance of the levees versus wetlands in the case of Katrina, but it does appear that the absence of wetlands can be significant.

 

[Newell Steamer]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Well, YOU did brought bring it up.

edit: duh, brought -> bring.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Another good article on wetlands. However this one makes it appear that their effect on storm surge is relatively minimal, especially during high storm surge scenarios. Katrina had the highest storm surge in recorded US history at 27.8 ft. Bottom line, wetlands or no wetlands, New Orleans was going to flood.

http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/surge_wetlands.asp

 

[JSt0rm]

Whats with you guys? Is like the lack of wetlands being tied to global warming triggering you? You must now defend why wetlands dont matter? lmao.

 

[realibrad]

Whatever the precise mechanism, wetlands appear to play a significant role in mitigating hurricane damage:

http://seagrant.noaa.gov/portals/0/..._tools_reports/value_hurricane_protection.pdf



That sounds like it's a major factor, not a minor one. I don't know the relative importance of the levees versus wetlands in the case of Katrina, but it does appear that the absence of wetlands can be significant.

No.

Wetlands do not play a role, land does. As types of lands go, wetlands are least effective in weakening the storm, but most effective in storm surge. I will grant you that storm surge is a massive problem in terms of hurricanes, but not in Katrina or the context of the op.

His claim was...

It's not a matter of question, it's an absolute fact that wetlands and marshes not only significantly reduce the strength of hurricanes but also absorb a bunch of the storm surge.

That is not true. It does absorb storm surge which in terms of hurricanes typically does the most damage, but in Katrina that is not the case as the surge was not the main issue. The amounts of water put down by the hurricane overwhelmed the levees which made them fail. There is enough blame to go around on that one, but wetlands was a small factor in total damage.

So far as I can tell, they did not do what they were supposed to in terms of the wetlands. That does not mean that had the wetlands been there it would have dented the massive cost in terms of money and lives.

 

[realibrad]

Whats with you guys? Is like the lack of wetlands being tied to global warming triggering you? You must now defend why wetlands dont matter? lmao.

Wetlands do matter, and are a very important natural buffer to storm surge. I personally live in FL where hurricanes are a very big issue. I also believe global warming is a very real issue unlike Doc. Facts are facts though. To claim something stupid like wetlands weaken storms vs other land is stupid. Of all the types of land, wet lands would do worse in terms of taking away energy.

Where hurricanes hit are in warm areas. The wetlands would then be places of wet warm water. Dry land in a warm area will weaken a hurricane a lot more than wet lands in a warm area.

 

[Fern]

It's not a matter of question, it's an absolute fact that wetlands and marshes not only significantly reduce the strength of hurricanes but also absorb a bunch of the storm surge. You see, when hurricanes hit land they can no longer absorb energy from the warm waters and quickly lose energy. That is why hurricanes don't remain cat 4 all the way to Missouri.

Wetlands Don't Always Decrease Storm Surge

However, the situation is very different for slow moving storms, or for portions of the coast subjected to strong winds for many hours. If a marshland is subject to strong winds for long enough, the wetlands will completely flood, and there will be no reduction of storm surge at all--and an increase in storm surge is even possible, according to the mathematical equations governing the surge (Resio and Westerink, 2008). This has occurred in Louisiana during a number of storms--Hurricanes Rita, Katrina, Gustav, Ike, and Hurricane Betsy of 1965, along the eastern side of the protruding delta of the Mississippi River (Figure 1). Resio and Westerlink (2008) found that during Hurricane Rita of 2005, strong winds blew along the east side of the Mississippi for almost a full day, completely flooding the 25 miles of wetlands fronting the Mississippi River levee at English Turn. In fact, the model results show that the surge probably increased in height, by 1 foot per 8.7 miles of inland penetration in the Hurricane Rita simulation, since the day-long period of strong winds allowed the surge to pile up against the levee.

Read more at http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/surge_wetlands.asp#9eXqyJQ6kOCpzSEv.99

Fern

 

[K1052]

Whats with you guys? Is like the lack of wetlands being tied to global warming triggering you? You must now defend why wetlands dont matter? lmao.

The drastic loss of wetlands in that particular area is more as a result of USACE actions (or lack there of) and to a lesser extent industry.

Wetlands do seem to matter in many hurricane scenarios, not all though. That said the preference is definitely to have them and Congress had to force the USACE to start rebuilding them.

 

[piasabird]

People need to realize the speed of the government is pretty damn slow to non-existent. Look how veterans are treated by those in congress and then decide if you want to depend on the government for anything. You know living next to the ocean in an area that is below sea level is the biggest part of the problem there is. It is just asking for trouble.

I still remember seeing all the school buses under water that could have been relocated if the governor of Louisiana had a brain.

 

[JSt0rm]

The drastic loss of wetlands in that particular area is more as a result of USACE actions (or lack there of) and to a lesser extent industry.

Wetlands do seem to matter in many hurricane scenarios, not all though. That said the preference is definitely to have them and Congress had to force the USACE to start rebuilding them.

I read is was mostly because of industry. What did the usace do?

 

[JSt0rm]

People need to realize the speed of the government is pretty damn slow to non-existent. Look how veterans are treated by those in congress and then decide if you want to depend on the government for anything. You know living next to the ocean in an area that is below sea level is the biggest part of the problem there is. It is just asking for trouble.

I still remember seeing all the school buses under water that could have been relocated if the governor of Louisiana had a brain.

How would you move all of the school buses?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Wetlands do matter, and are a very important natural buffer to storm surge. I personally live in FL where hurricanes are a very big issue. I also believe global warming is a very real issue unlike Doc. Facts are facts though. To claim something stupid like wetlands weaken storms vs other land is stupid. Of all the types of land, wet lands would do worse in terms of taking away energy.

Where hurricanes hit are in warm areas. The wetlands would then be places of wet warm water. Dry land in a warm area will weaken a hurricane a lot more than wet lands in a warm area.

I cry 'foul' regarding this gross oversimplification....but will table this discussion for the time being.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

How would you move all of the school buses?

Really?

 

[piasabird]

Get driver on bus, start driving.

Cant fix stupid.