Who is actually responsible for the economic meltdown?

[woolfe9999]

Chris Dodd is in it up to his eyeballs with Frank. I hold these two totally responsible for the housing crisis. Progressive insanity brought about this crisis. In a different country they would both be brought up on charges, convicted and probably hung. This might throw a little fear into the rest of the Congress critters but it would be short lived. Oh, why do they blame him? Because he's the mastermind along with Dodd.

"Totally responsible for the housing crisis" is hyperbole at best.

 

[Macamus Prime]

AH-MERI-KAN greed and the hate for your fellow man.

Capitalist practices (from both our "democratic" government and private entities) have ruined the very thing they were looking to build up; wealth. Currency based wealth is NOT something a nation can share or build - it is something that is constantly fought over and therefore constantly compromised. Fighting such as class warfare, Obama's war on the rich, governments taking up the practices of private entities (meeting the needs of a budget and not the people).

The true wealth of a nation and people is it's identity. And, if it's identity is based off of currency wealth; well, you then deserve all that is coming to you. A nation and people are wealthy when their culture, ways and daily life make the people of said nation happy. I don't see how consumerism, class warfare, political discourse, war on other nations is something that would make anyone happy - unless they are evil.

Also, looking down on people who you consider to be less than you shows the disregard you have for humanity. You may hate someone who is not responsible with their money, but that proves you are out just to hate and not help.

In the end, the greedy will receive ten fold what they dished out. And, since their greed has harmed millions of people in this life time, Hell will be extra special for them.

 

[Craig234]

If it had to be pinned on one thing only it would be deregulation. It is what allowed every other thing to happen. It is unfortunate people will do crappy things just to make a buck, but since we know this that is why strict regulations are needed especially when it comes to wall street, banks, and politicians.

Even deregulation needs to be looked at to ask why it happened. Innocent mistake? Lobbying? Excessive role of money in politics?

Looking back at the votes, it had very little opposition. Most of that little opposition was progressive Democrats, but most of them voted for it, too. It still leaves questions.

 

[Zebo]

AH-MERI-KAN greed and the hate for your fellow man.

Capitalist practices (from both our "democratic" government and private entities) have ruined the very thing they were looking to build up; wealth. Currency based wealth is NOT something a nation can share or build - it is something that is constantly fought over and therefore constantly compromised. Fighting such as class warfare, Obama's war on the rich, governments taking up the practices of private entities (meeting the needs of a budget and not the people).

The true wealth of a nation and people is it's identity. And, if it's identity is based off of currency wealth; well, you then deserve all that is coming to you. A nation and people are wealthy when their culture, ways and daily life make the people of said nation happy. I don't see how consumerism, class warfare, political discourse, war on other nations is something that would make anyone happy - unless they are evil.

Also, looking down on people who you consider to be less than you shows the disregard you have for humanity. You may hate someone who is not responsible with their money, but that proves you are out just to hate and not help.

In the end, the greedy will receive ten fold what they dished out. And, since their greed has harmed millions of people in this life time, Hell will be extra special for them.

Yes 4 main reasons I often come back to besides mechanics I noted on last page which are just a symptom of our chronic infection.


1. Wealth, things we call wealth at least, is mined, manufactured or grown. You can't eat a derivative. The United States economy is moving towards predominantly a service economy like third world. The period in time in which the USA was strongest with a vibrant middle class was when its economy was a manufacturing economy. Falling middle has been buffered/hidden by massive debt just too keep peoples heads above water which won't go on forever. Meanwhile some have profited immensely and it doesn't look like we are going to get that money or factories back.

2. The public educational system is failing on many levels no longer giving us the wherewithal to be productive nor understanding the problems facing us. There are many reasons why this is happening and I won't get into it but it presents huge problems going forward least of which is understanding when times were good and how we got there.

3. The political system no longer emphasizes the common good. Instead it is fragmented into obtaining free handouts that benefit the very few more than the many, and corporate and special interest groups being able to influence the outcome of elections more than the individual citizen. Haven't you noticed last 20 years even bills to supposedly help the people turns out to be a huge boondoggle for special interests? Medicare part D, Obamacare, etc.

4. Our moral system is no longer focused on fair play or treating fellow citizens like you would like to be treated. Instead it has devolved to a rat eat rat system where anything goes as long as you win and you can keep your spoils.

Bottom line is in order to reverse the growing inequality, corruption and downward spiral of the United States requires a fundamental shift in many economic, educational, political, & moral systems that seem insurmountable IMO.

 

[Munky]

Banks and deregulation. The banks damn well knew many of the loans they made were trash, but nonetheless repackaged them and sold the underlying securities to investors under a false rating.

Even so, had Glass-Steagall not been repealed, those who made bad bets at the Wall St casino would have went bust, without the ability to hold the economy hostage and threaten Congress into bailing them out.

 

[Acanthus]

AH-MERI-KAN greed and the hate for your fellow man.

Capitalist practices (from both our "democratic" government and private entities) have ruined the very thing they were looking to build up; wealth. Currency based wealth is NOT something a nation can share or build - it is something that is constantly fought over and therefore constantly compromised. Fighting such as class warfare, Obama's war on the rich, governments taking up the practices of private entities (meeting the needs of a budget and not the people).

The true wealth of a nation and people is it's identity. And, if it's identity is based off of currency wealth; well, you then deserve all that is coming to you. A nation and people are wealthy when their culture, ways and daily life make the people of said nation happy. I don't see how consumerism, class warfare, political discourse, war on other nations is something that would make anyone happy - unless they are evil.

Also, looking down on people who you consider to be less than you shows the disregard you have for humanity. You may hate someone who is not responsible with their money, but that proves you are out just to hate and not help.

In the end, the greedy will receive ten fold what they dished out. And, since their greed has harmed millions of people in this life time, Hell will be extra special for them.

LOL if Obama is waging a war on the rich he isn't doing very well. The Gini index is the highest it has ever been in the history of the United States.

 

[Munky]

You forgot to blame the majority who kept voting in the politicians supporting the whole ponzi scheme and then went heavily into debt to maintain their lifestyle and leverage their assets.

Tell me which politicians don't support the ponzi scheme? I'm sick of the blame being shifted to the voter, as if the politician actually listens to his constituents as opposed to the lobbyists.

 

[piasabird]

On big problem is that some of the people involved in selling houses just out and out did not follow guidelines and rules and existing laws. A lot of people should have been sent to jail for how they handled real estate.

 

[Darwin333]

The CRA Argument has been very nearly swept from the board. But it does beg the question.

Why would bankers, even unregulated, make risky loans if they were interested in staying in business?

Because they can take those risky loans and do their mumbo jumbo, slap a AAA rate guaranteed not to loose money sticker on it, and sell it for a huge profit. For icing on the cake they knew they could get uncle sugar to cover their bets if they fucked up big.

So the better question is, why wouldn't they? If a casino had a roulette table that only had black colors on it and you could bet on black, would you?

 

[manimal]

I blame dance music

 

[wuliheron]

Tell me which politicians don't support the ponzi scheme? I'm sick of the blame being shifted to the voter, as if the politician actually listens to his constituents as opposed to the lobbyists.

Who the hell do you think votes for all these politicians taking money from lobbyists? Santa's elves? You can blame the lobbyists, you can blame the wealthy, you can blame Martians, but it all comes down to people continuing to vote these assholes into office. Would you listen to people who put up with all this crap and still keep voting for the same assholes?

 

[BurnItDwn]

Who the hell do you think votes for all these politicians taking money from lobbyists? Santa's elves? You can blame the lobbyists, you can blame the wealthy, you can blame Martians, but it all comes down to people continuing to vote these assholes into office. Would you listen to people who put up with all this crap and still keep voting for the same assholes?

Dishonesty seems like it's treated as a virtue among politicians. They say one thing and do another. Then, they are so damn proud of their accomplishments and being able to get away with it.... The system is so fortified where the 2 big parties control everything, and they are both guilty of lying and doing whatever it takes to stay in power and fill their pockets rather than doing what they say.

The people continuing to vote these assholes into office are continuing to be duped by the assholes in the office.

 

[Munky]

Who the hell do you think votes for all these politicians taking money from lobbyists? Santa's elves? You can blame the lobbyists, you can blame the wealthy, you can blame Martians, but it all comes down to people continuing to vote these assholes into office. Would you listen to people who put up with all this crap and still keep voting for the same assholes?

You're talking as if the voter actually had a choice in electing a non-corrupt, non-lobbyist politician.

 

[wuliheron]

The people continuing to vote these assholes into office are continuing to be duped by the assholes in the office.

Then blaming the politicians merely distracts from the real problem that people continue to allow themselves to be fooled. Not only have they consistently voted for politicians who promised them they could have their cake and eat it too, but they also tried the same trick with their personal finances suggesting they either wanted to be fooled or were intent on fooling themselves.

The truth is keeping taxes low, spending in hard times, and having a loose regulatory environment worked fabulously well for Americans for over a hundred years. It produced some of the fastest economic growth and lowest unemployment rates in the world. However, it stopped working 30 years ago and the public is still stuck in that record groove. According to drug addicts the definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeated and expecting different results.

 

[wuliheron]

You're talking as if the voter actually had a choice in electing a non-corrupt, non-lobbyist politician.

You can vote for the guy next door if you want or you can abstain from voting for anyone. If people really have no confidence in the system then why bother going through the motions? People do have a choice and their choice is obviously to support the system as is.

 

[Modelworks]

watch frontlines the warning and how Greenspan, senators and others not only didn't listen to one of their own agencies, but got the person removed and the office closed down for making trouble.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/view/

 

[Munky]

You can vote for the guy next door if you want or you can abstain from voting for anyone. If people really have no confidence in the system then why bother going through the motions? People do have a choice and their choice is obviously to support the system as is.

That's like saying the slaves support slavery because they continue to do the work. Other than a violent uprising, voting is the only way a common citizen can change his government. And no, in this country I cannot vote for my next door neighbor, even if he would make a better candidate.

 

[soulcougher73]

You're talking as if the voter actually had a choice in electing a non-corrupt, non-lobbyist politician.

This. Only a fool thinks you can change our politics via voting. It is 100% totally corrupted and you have to play the game to even make it.

Bring on the violent overthrow. Many deaths shall be had

 

[HeXen]

loopholes,greed and stupid people who can't afford new homes are whats at fault. no one person in particular.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Someone told me that there was a poll done years ago where Californians, by a vast majority, believed that housing prices would continue to rise by 20% for the next 10 years. With a $500,000 median price that meant they believed that houses would be worth over $3,000,000 in 10 years. I can't find that anywhere but I do recall something like this being the popular opinion back when housing was booming. Not the $3M but the 20% going on for years to come.

And you believed that? I've lived in California for 21 years and I've NEVER heard that from anyone I know...and my wife is a Realtor.

 

[shortylickens]

And you believed that? I've lived in California for 21 years and I've NEVER heard that from anyone I know...and my wife is a Realtor.

I lived in CA for 3 years and I frequently heard folks talking about how they were either gonna sell their place for a 200 percent markup and retire someplace else, or pull some sneaky shit with re-mortgaging and live just off their equity.

 

[wuliheron]

That's like saying the slaves support slavery because they continue to do the work. Other than a violent uprising, voting is the only way a common citizen can change his government. And no, in this country I cannot vote for my next door neighbor, even if he would make a better candidate.

Slaves don't get a vote, they don't get to abstain from voting, and they certainly don't get to vote for whoever they damned well please. Get a grip fool, if the American public walked down the street this very moment to protest they would be heard and something would be done. If they all abstained from voting they would be heard and something would be done. If they all started voting for the guy next door they would be heard and something would be done. They are not slaves to be summarily whipped or killed. Yes, we have a two party system, but that doesn't mean the people have to keep choosing the same two parties.

 

[wuliheron]

I lived in CA for 3 years and I frequently heard folks talking about how they were either gonna sell their place for a 200 percent markup and retire someplace else, or pull some sneaky shit with re-mortgaging and live just off their equity.

Its the American dream, money for nothing and you're chicks for free.

 

[Munky]

Slaves don't get a vote, they don't get to abstain from voting, and they certainly don't get to vote for whoever they damned well please. Get a grip fool, if the American public walked down the street this very moment to protest they would be heard and something would be done. If they all abstained from voting they would be heard and something would be done. If they all started voting for the guy next door they would be heard and something would be done. They are not slaves to be summarily whipped or killed. Yes, we have a two party system, but that doesn't mean the people have to keep choosing the same two parties.

I don't know in what fantasy land you live, but we don't get to vote for whomever we damn well please. Your proposition that every single voter abstain from voting is as unlikely as telling every single consumer to stop buying with credit.

 

[Engineer]

Shows like "Flip this house" on Home and Garden channel. When a home (or other daily needs such as oil, etc) become a flip trade and prices are speculated up, this is what happens. Also, shipping our industrial base offshore and replacing it with a service economy.....Would you like fries with that?