Who here is a hardcore holdem poker player

[RaynorWolfcastle]

Originally posted by: KnickNut3
I doubt that many people could figure out in a reasonable amount of time that any single player is playing "by the book."

I mean, i'm still playing deceptively. Semi-bluffs, free card plays, etc.

Plus, to cite your example--how are you going to decode that I have KQ exactly when you have QQ? I play KQ suited exactly the same as AA, AK, AKs, or AQs preflop. How are you going to know, and bust me for it? Know how often that situation comes up? 1 in 68,000 times. Even multiply that by the number of conceivable situations where you would know exaclty what I have and extract some money out of me for it, and (on average) you'll be out of money long before you get the best of someone like that.

Quality (online) play is far more complex than I think you're giving it credit for. I'm not even close to an expert on the subject.

Look, all I'm saying is that with 6 tables you can't read players, take notes, notice patterns. You know, do all the stuff you'd usually do when playing poker. Also, I'm guessing that the time you spend on figuring out implied odds is next to none. Essentially, you play YOUR game rather than play your opponents.

I'm sure you make good money playing it, I'm just saying that one guy on 6 tables can't play as well as someone only playing with one table because he's playing it because he enjoys the game..

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
Look, all I'm saying is that with 6 tables you can't read players, take notes, notice patterns. You know, do all the stuff you'd usually do when playing poker.

So what? People who play poker on 6 tables are usually pretty serious about their game. In fact, there is a piece of software called Pokertracker that basically does what you are talking about for you. Why take notes and notice patterns when software can do it for you? Try it out. I believe there is a free trial. You can infer a lot more about players when you have a lengthy history as compared to a few rounds at the table.

Also, I'm guessing that the time you spend on figuring out implied odds is next to none. Essentially, you play YOUR game rather than play your opponents.

Implied odds are just that, IMPLIED. You use the information you have to make educated guesses regarding your opponent?s future action. Implied odds go down in value in limit poker however compared to no limit. Regardless, many people who play multiple tables can figure out their odds quickly enough.

I'm sure you make good money playing it, I'm just saying that one guy on 6 tables can't play as well as someone only playing with one table because he's playing it because he enjoys the game..

This is true but it's part of a mathematical equation. Put simply, if you can clear 3 BB/hr playing 1 table and lose .5 BB/hr for each additional table you play, your expected profit is 3BB/1T Table or 5.5BB/2T or 7.5/3T or 10.5/6T. It could be the difference between making $6/hr and $21/hr at 1/2 limit. Although, you don't play as well at any one table, you are still making more money than if you played at just one table.

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

Stop trying to convince me that you can make more money by playing more tables, I know this already and didn't need to be told this (several times). You obviously play the game to make money, I play it because I enjoy the dynamics and the subtleties of the game (the money is nice, don't get me wrong).

To me playing poker out of a book is no fun and I would have no interest in doing it for the money. If this is the kind of thing you like, more power to you. It's also obvious that you play limit poker rather than no-limit which I find much more exciting (though obviously more unpredictable if you're doing it for profit).

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
Stop trying to convince me that you can make more money by playing more tables, I know this already and didn't need to be told this (several times). You obviously play the game to make money, I play it because I enjoy the dynamics and the subtleties of the game (the money is nice, don't get me wrong).

To me playing poker out of a book is no fun and I would have no interest in doing it for the money. If this is the kind of thing you like, more power to you. It's also obvious that you play limit poker rather than no-limit which I find much more exciting (though obviously more unpredictable if you're doing it for profit).

Case closed then, I guess. People will always play for different reasons. Some people probably find playing 8 tables at once a lot of fun. I know I would, if I could consistently win.

 

[KnickNut3]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
Also, I'm guessing that the time you spend on figuring out implied odds is next to none.

Hmm... 4.22 to 1 to make my nut flush. 2 BB to me with 7 in the pot, I close the betting. I see player has a post flop aggression factor of 2.38 but is loose preflop, so he is likely to bet into me or raise me regardless of position, I'll put average future bets if I hit at almost 2, maybe more like 1.8. That makes it 8.8 to 2, sufficient to call.

I put that thought into most plays. Once you've done it hundreds of times doesn't take more than a second. I'm on autopilot, yes, but that kind of thought still goes into things.

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
Stop trying to convince me that you can make more money by playing more tables, I know this already and didn't need to be told this (several times).

That's only been mentioned once by me and once by DBL. That's not our main point. The point is that multitabling strategy cannot be summarized on a cheat sheet or in a basic computer program (raise with trips, call with pairs and draws, etc.). Although we've obviously come to the end of the discussion about this (and I'm not trying to beat a dead horse), I just want to point out that that's not our main point.

I understand what you're saying about excitement. I appreciate no limit, although right now I prefer limit because it's less reads and more math (there's math in choosing bet size to give your opponent insufficient pot odds, but it's less predicable). I intend to expand to pot limit and perhaps no limit in the future, but I'm fine where I am right now.

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

well obviously if you're playing limit poker, implied odds are much simpler

I still have trouble with implied odds at no-limit because it relies a lot on reading your opponent and how much you think you can extort out of him if you hit. I'm pretty good with pot odds but implied is still really challenging to me

 

[PopeyeTheSailorMan]

read a book

 

[LordSnailz]

It's funny seeing this back and forth ... I've done both and enjoy both, online and IRL. I play 4 tables max, I'm still not use to thinking that fast, but the advantage of playing multiple tables is that it trains you to play correctly.

Once it's almost second nature to you then the people factor comes in. You actually have to think and calm yourself down in order to bluff and not give away tells, but deciding when to call, how much to raise, should be quick, so that you can spend your energy bluffing or analyzing your opponent.

 

[imported_obsidian]

I currently play 5/10 6-max at Empire (moved up gradually from .5/1). Since I started a little over 3 months ago I've put in about 106k hands and have made $10k. Been averaging 1.5BB/100 over my last 18k hands of 5/10 6-max. I managed 3BB/100 over 15k hands of 2/4 6-max at Ultimate Bet but I'm finding 5/10 a bit tougher.

The nearest casino is about 90 miles away or else I would play live more. I do however have a Vegas trip planned in 2 months. Oh, and just because I 4-table shorthanded tables online doesn't mean I only play the cards and not the player. You will lose your ass in these games if you did that.