if the f-body are such great cars why are they getting rid of them?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
its prob cause they are crap!!!
they look nasty inside and out
its prob cause they are crap!!!
they look nasty inside and out
iamwiz82
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2001
- 30,772
- 13
- 81
I cannot believe you people. You scream and jump over 200hp out of a nissan, but laught at 300hp out of an f-body? I dontl like the f-body, but i sure as hell respect them. You guys need to stop driving your 110hp FWD cars while pretending they are sports cars.
Most of the autocrosses that I've seen are generally dominated by ITRs or Miatas. Funny how you accept a shitty made car like a Camaro, on which none of the seams line up, you can't see over the hood, and the interior is crap and you rip a nicely made car like the M3. The M3 is what, $50k (w/o the dealer markups)? The SS Camaro is ~$33k and the Cobra and the Cobra R cost how much? Is the Cobra R still ~$50k? And will it get beat by an M3?
IF you boosted the power on the LS1, and IF you rework the suspension, blah blah blah. FACT is, STOCK the M3 is a better made car. It can hold it's own in acceleration and the 1320, and it can beat them on a road course. It's a lot more pleasant to ride in, it's put together with much better materials, and it's fit and finish is leagues above the Camaro and the Cobra. The seats are nicer, the shifter's better, heck, you can even see what's in front of the car. And STOCK, it will probably outlast a Camaro.
You rip rallies. Did I say that I rally? NO. Will I. Probably not. Can a Camaro hold it's own if set up to rally? We all know that it can go straight. It has a steering radius of almost 42 feet! How well can a nose heavy beast like that turn? It was designed to do only one thing - go fast in a straight line. Or in an oval, if you expand this argument to Nascar. I would LOVE to see those cars on a road course. ANY road course. Heck, I would even love to see what would hapepn if they had to drive in the opposite direction for one race.
There's a reason why the Camaro and the Trans Am are being discontinued. When a factory only puts out 1/3 of what it's capable of producing, and when the Vette! is outselling the cheaper Camaros and Trans Ams, it's time to call it a day.
The Mustang is selling very well. Perhaps you can explain why the Stang is flourishing while the F-body is being put to sleep? (Seriously, I don't know.)
That's because the 290hp is produced by a 3.5L, the car is lighter, it's not nose heavy, and it's put together a *little* better. (350Z)
300hp out of a 5.7L is weak. And that convoluted "Ram Air" setup on the SS? What's that about? You gain 10hp+ by simply removing it!
I'm really gonna miss the car. I've only been in to them for a few years as my friend has a 95 formula...but thats gotta be my favorite car. My question is, is gm going to make a car to replace it? The only alternative I can really think of would be a mustang, or maybe a ricer, and I'd rather be dead than be caught driving in one of those POS'es.
BTW I like BMW's and such alot more, but there way out of my price range.
BTW I like BMW's and such alot more, but there way out of my price range.
I read they are bringing over that Australian V8 car w/ RWD. That might be suffice to hold f-body people over until GM can put together an affordable 4seat 'vette. 
I started missing the F body after the last good year: 1969. They have not been worth a crap since then. I never founf any redeaming qualities to them. I always dusted them with my '72 Challenger with a 340/4speed. They rattle, flex, are heavey, handle poorly, ride rough, the interiors, as well as the whole car do not hold up well to age or being ragged on.
I loved the 60s Camaros (SS396/427) and liked the 70s a little but they just lost their way IMHO. Seems no one wants one or else GM wouldn't kill them off.
Dude you are giving out PEAK numbers... PEAK is MEANINGLESS
Peak numbers are as useless as HP calculated at the block :disgust:
Edit: BTW that 3.5 may have a high peak, but it's torque curve must be lousy cause you get 4 people in one and it's so unimpressive it's not even funny. If you get one and show it off like a guy at my work did, do it ONE person at a time
BTW the 5.7 is underrated, some guys in Cali dyno'd them and the 5.3's all are getting 10-15 more RWTQ then listed.
dude, you are talking about a SPORTS CAR. when the fvck are you gonna be carrying four 200lb ogres in the car?Originally posted by: LAUST
Dude you are giving out PEAK numbers... PEAK is MEANINGLESS
Peak numbers are as useless as HP calculated at the block :disgust:
Edit: BTW that 3.5 may have a high peak, but it's torque curve must be lousy cause you get 4 people in one and it's so unimpressive it's not even funny. If you get one and show it off like a guy at my work did, do it ONE person at a timeI'll fill my friggin entire bed with people and my LS1 based motor will still impress.
BTW the 5.7 is underrated, some guys in Cali dyno'd them and the 5.3's all are getting 10-15 more RWTQ then listed.
as for the 3.5L, it gets 287hp @ 6200RPM and 274lb-ft @ 4800RPM.
the LS1 is GREAT and has great potential, but the f-body has a ridiculously long hood, windshield, and dash. it also has some pretty big blind spots. try parallel parking that beast here in westwood! not to mention the stupid bulge on the passenger side floor.
Tuffguy, we're talking about actual wheel horespower, not flywheel bro..........If you wanan go there, then the LS1 cranks out about 350hp at the flywheel.......Sure, your nissan my put out 290hp at flywheel, but what's the actual power thrown to the ground? maybe 200?......HAH.....I can see over the nose of my trans am just fine thank you very freaking much........If you can't judge how far the front of your car sticks out, then you shouldn't be driving anyway!
The hood and windshield make the car look sleek, and it has very good aerodynamic properties........Blind spots? You must wear glasses or something ,because i have less blind spots in this car than i did in my old 4-door chevy caprice....
The bulge in teh passenger side floor is for the catalytic convertor, which allows the car to sit low to the ground.....
I guess some people dont understand the pure beauty and raw power of the fbody and LS1 motor, true power, true sports..........Oh well, stick to your lame ass nissans and hondas and what not, and be mad when i pass ya up and you hear growl of my exhaust and smell the fumes of an LS1 with no muffler......mwhahaha....all you'll be looking at is my ass buddy...........SEEEEEE YA..
The hood and windshield make the car look sleek, and it has very good aerodynamic properties........Blind spots? You must wear glasses or something ,because i have less blind spots in this car than i did in my old 4-door chevy caprice....
The bulge in teh passenger side floor is for the catalytic convertor, which allows the car to sit low to the ground.....
I guess some people dont understand the pure beauty and raw power of the fbody and LS1 motor, true power, true sports..........Oh well, stick to your lame ass nissans and hondas and what not, and be mad when i pass ya up and you hear growl of my exhaust and smell the fumes of an LS1 with no muffler......mwhahaha....all you'll be looking at is my ass buddy...........SEEEEEE YA..
Great fvcking logic there bud. By that rationale, the 260hp v8 stang only puts down what, 180hp? The 205hp 3.0L V6 in the Eclipse GT dynoes at 170hp.
The 290hp 3.5L 350Z ran a 5.5. The LS1 is how much faster? It's turning radius is 6 FEET wider than the 350Z's, it's 2 FEET longer than the 350Z, it has a shorter wheelbase, it weighs a couple of HUNDRED pounds more, and it's more nose-heavy.
Perhaps you can explain to me why other cars don't have that stupid "bulge in teh passenger side floor is for the catalytic convertor, which allows the car to sit low to the ground"? Could it be the "great engineering" of the F-body?
Have you ever seen the underside and exhaust of the fbody? Prolly not, you seem to be talking out of your ass.....
Anyways, the headers/exhaust manifolds (whichever you have, headers if you upgraded) go into a Y-pipe, the Ypipe is right under the floor of the car, and the cats are part of the y-pipe.......There's two cats, one for each header/manifold....The right one just happens to be right under the passenger hump.......If that hump wasn't there, the cat would be about 2 inches from the freakin' ground.........Maybe you should research before you bend over and speak....
Of course it's longer, its a f@cking RWD v8, not a transverse v6 FWD.......Oh ya, what's the torque rating on your "wonderful" peices of shiz? I'd like to see a ricermobile pump out 345lb ft of torque.........Pure muscle baby......Oh ya, the torque on those cars isn't enough to mention, i forgot.......They're doing everything they can to squeeze all the HP out, they forgot to gear it for high torque too........Oops.......I'd like to see your wonderful 350z spin the tires (not a brake stand) for 100ft until you hit 3rd gear, then they barely lock up........And no, thse aren't shiz tires, few week old Bridgestone Potenza RE730's.....Oh ya, your 350z can't do that......it doesn't have the torque or power.....Oops.....
Anyways, the headers/exhaust manifolds (whichever you have, headers if you upgraded) go into a Y-pipe, the Ypipe is right under the floor of the car, and the cats are part of the y-pipe.......There's two cats, one for each header/manifold....The right one just happens to be right under the passenger hump.......If that hump wasn't there, the cat would be about 2 inches from the freakin' ground.........Maybe you should research before you bend over and speak....
Of course it's longer, its a f@cking RWD v8, not a transverse v6 FWD.......Oh ya, what's the torque rating on your "wonderful" peices of shiz? I'd like to see a ricermobile pump out 345lb ft of torque.........Pure muscle baby......Oh ya, the torque on those cars isn't enough to mention, i forgot.......They're doing everything they can to squeeze all the HP out, they forgot to gear it for high torque too........Oops.......I'd like to see your wonderful 350z spin the tires (not a brake stand) for 100ft until you hit 3rd gear, then they barely lock up........And no, thse aren't shiz tires, few week old Bridgestone Potenza RE730's.....Oh ya, your 350z can't do that......it doesn't have the torque or power.....Oops.....
The camaro/firebird are muscle cars....not sports cars. A miata is a sports car.
And they are dying not because they are bad cars...its because insurance on these cars (particularly for young males under 25 in large cities) is outrageous. Furthermore, insurance probably also killed the great sports cars of the 90's including the 300zx, rx-7, and supra.
And they are dying not because they are bad cars...its because insurance on these cars (particularly for young males under 25 in large cities) is outrageous. Furthermore, insurance probably also killed the great sports cars of the 90's including the 300zx, rx-7, and supra.
Speaking of ignorant... The 350Z is FWD? Since when? ... No torque? You obviously don't know anything about the VQ. It gets 274lb-ft and has a really flat torque curve. In the last dyno that I saw, the SS Camaro had 315 CORRECTED rwhp. WOW!!! 25 more horses from an extra 2.2L!
Yes, I have seen the underside of the Camaro. Are you trying to tell me that the design can't be improved, and the hump can't be removed? Or that the cats can't be placed elsewhere?
Oh god. Smoking your tires.
WooooHoooo you can spin your tires!!!!!!
again if they are such great cars why are they getting rid of them??
dont tell me insurance cause car insurance has gone up on all cars!!!
thebestMAX
Diamond Member
- Sep 14, 2000
- 7,514
- 136
- 106
This is exactly why I bought a 2K2 T/A to replace my 93.
I dont care what other people say or think. I love these cars. They are the most perfect cars ever built for my desires in a price range I can afford.
Better cars may be coming but this one is my insurace policy.
See it here!
I dont care what other people say or think. I love these cars. They are the most perfect cars ever built for my desires in a price range I can afford.
Better cars may be coming but this one is my insurace policy.
See it here!
I miss my modded 2000 SS!!! I had to part with it after it was totaled in a serious accident. The accident was not even 1% my fault, for all you people that are thinking it must have been my fault since all F-body drivers are reckless (far from true). The car was awesome! I had susp. mods, engine mods, the whole works! Longtube headers, Corsa Exhaust, Vig 2800 stall torque converter, completly reworked suspension and a whole slew of other mods! It was awesome!
Well of corse it is a better car stock, that's becasue it's a much more expenisve car. They aren't even in the same class, the BMW is a luxury car, the F-body is most certainly not! I never had a problem with my SS and drove it hard (auto X, drag racing, street racing, ect). Sure, the BMW is more reliable. For the price it had better be! But BMW dealerships have service departments too, and they are busy as well, and not just with oil changes! I never met a BMW, vette, or other more expensive performance car I couldn't beat easily! Modded M3, hah! Even with my mods, my SS was still much less expensive than any M sersies BMW! That was true best feature of the F-body, no other car gave you so much stock power and perfomance and so much modding potential for the money! It was easily the best value in sports cars. You got a Corevette engine for a typical family sedan price! Bank for the buck, the F-body was king!!!
I loved my 2000SS so much it hurts! In a few years I'm going to have to get a vette, which is still a great value for what you get performance wise compared to the germans.
Well of corse it is a better car stock, that's becasue it's a much more expenisve car. They aren't even in the same class, the BMW is a luxury car, the F-body is most certainly not! I never had a problem with my SS and drove it hard (auto X, drag racing, street racing, ect). Sure, the BMW is more reliable. For the price it had better be! But BMW dealerships have service departments too, and they are busy as well, and not just with oil changes! I never met a BMW, vette, or other more expensive performance car I couldn't beat easily! Modded M3, hah! Even with my mods, my SS was still much less expensive than any M sersies BMW! That was true best feature of the F-body, no other car gave you so much stock power and perfomance and so much modding potential for the money! It was easily the best value in sports cars. You got a Corevette engine for a typical family sedan price! Bank for the buck, the F-body was king!!!
I loved my 2000SS so much it hurts! In a few years I'm going to have to get a vette, which is still a great value for what you get performance wise compared to the germans.
thebestMAX
Diamond Member
- Sep 14, 2000
- 7,514
- 136
- 106
Freejack2
Diamond Member
- Dec 31, 2000
- 7,751
- 8
- 91
Enh, sports cars that have a lot of horsepower but can't turn aren't exactly exciting.
The speed limit in most states is a max of 65mph. A big engine isn't going to do all that much unless you race on a track which most drivers don't.
So in my opinion what really makes a sports car isn't how big the engine is, but how well it handles in the turns. The best sports car I feel is one that sticks to the road like glue in the turns.
Sounds like the F-bodys needed a lot of modification to get it to do that. :/
The speed limit in most states is a max of 65mph. A big engine isn't going to do all that much unless you race on a track which most drivers don't.
So in my opinion what really makes a sports car isn't how big the engine is, but how well it handles in the turns. The best sports car I feel is one that sticks to the road like glue in the turns.
Sounds like the F-bodys needed a lot of modification to get it to do that. :/
thebestMAX
Diamond Member
- Sep 14, 2000
- 7,514
- 136
- 106
How about some more relies from people who have owned these cars and not from people who drive the pis poor car mags on the market today?
Squisher
Lifer
- Aug 17, 2000
- 21,204
- 66
- 91
x3ro, you should have made a POLL. This is getting interesting.
Let me just say, although the wife's Z28 is new, we haven't had any problems with it.
As far as nose heavy I would have to say that is much more the case with the f-bodies without the aluminum block.
Sight lines, well they could be better, but that is pedicated by the design, which I like.
I took the wife around to look at some other cars(Celica, Eclipse, RSX), but she fell in love with just about the last red Z28 with leather and t-tops that any dealer here in Detroit was going to get.
As for neck snapping power. I have opened it up twice, it was a thrill. I wouldn't trade that torque for anything.
BTW-this car listed for $28,500 but I got it for $21K after my GM discount and $3K off from my GM card.
Let me just say, although the wife's Z28 is new, we haven't had any problems with it.
As far as nose heavy I would have to say that is much more the case with the f-bodies without the aluminum block.
Sight lines, well they could be better, but that is pedicated by the design, which I like.
I took the wife around to look at some other cars(Celica, Eclipse, RSX), but she fell in love with just about the last red Z28 with leather and t-tops that any dealer here in Detroit was going to get.
As for neck snapping power. I have opened it up twice, it was a thrill. I wouldn't trade that torque for anything.
BTW-this car listed for $28,500 but I got it for $21K after my GM discount and $3K off from my GM card.
I am too.
Its nice that you've never actually been to a SCCA Auto-X event. If you think ITRs and Miatas dominate Auto-X, you need to move on to REAL Auto-X where its not your friends driving around like jackasses in the local Kroger parking lot.
So I talk about power. You talk about build quality.
No you didn't. Did I say you rally? No, I just pointed out that like all of the other wannabe net racers, you just had to drag rally racing into the subject when it isn't even subjectable to this entire conversation.
I've withstained from saying this before, but god, you're a rice boy. I say "Camaro's rip you a new one" and the reply is "Well my import is more comfortable!" Or "Damn, did you see that SS rip apart the S4 in the next lane" and then I hear "well the S4 would destroy it on the track" and over and over and over. You need to put Sport Compact Car down and go out and actually do, or at least watch in person, the stuff that you try and talk about.
I'm not even going to adress the idiotic power/weight discussion above because you simply don't understand cars in general.
/me sighs
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