Who are we to tell Israel to stop trying to kill the Terrorist Organization that attacks them consistently?

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: dahunan
Wouldn't you try to kill the leader of Hamas if you were an Israeli?

If I was an Israeli citizen I would seek to impeach any President who didn't try to kill the leader of Hamas

On the same token, why the F*CK are my tax dollars going to the israeli war machine, making enemies out of people who would otherwise have nothing to do with us?

Your tax dollars also went to the Taliban, and North Korea.

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: dahunan
Wouldn't you try to kill the leader of Hamas if you were an Israeli?

If I was an Israeli citizen I would seek to impeach any President who didn't try to kill the leader of Hamas

On the same token, why the F*CK are my tax dollars going to the israeli war machine, making enemies out of people who would otherwise have nothing to do with us?

Your tax dollars also went to the Taliban, and North Korea.

How were our tax dollars going to arm the Taliban and North Korea?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

While I understand your sentiment, it is ultimately futile. Worse, it is self destructive.

First, who are we to tell either side how to handle their affairs? Suggest? Yes. Aid? Yes. Tell? No.


Israel has the right to self protection.
Palestinians have a right to self protection.


Here is the problem the "kill Hamas" theory.

Hamas attacks Israel. Israel retaliates against Palestinians. Palestinians retaliate against Israel. Israel retaliates against Palestinians on and on, ad infinitum. So each side in turn "gets even" Great. Now you have propagated justification for the next series of attacks. Does that protect the children and grandchildren of either side? No. Like was said earlier, there is no one person (on either side) that wants this strife. There are many. Every one of them have good reasons in their own minds. I do not have the solution to this, but I do know that the repetitive cycle of slaughter will not make this better.

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
While I understand your sentiment, it is ultimately futile. Worse, it is self destructive.

First, who are we to tell either side how to handle their affairs? Suggest? Yes. Aid? Yes. Tell? No.


Israel has the right to self protection.
Palestinians have a right to self protection.


Here is the problem the "kill Hamas" theory.

Hamas attacks Israel. Israel retaliates against Palestinians. Palestinians retaliate against Israel. Israel retaliates against Palestinians on and on, ad infinitum. So each side in turn "gets even" Great. Now you have propagated justification for the next series of attacks. Does that protect the children and grandchildren of either side? No. Like was said earlier, there is no one person (on either side) that wants this strife. There are many. Every one of them have good reasons in their own minds. I do not have the solution to this, but I do know that the repetitive cycle of slaughter will not make this better.

I agree with the "kill hamas" theory. Check out my first post if you like.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: dahunan
Wouldn't you try to kill the leader of Hamas if you were an Israeli?

If I was an Israeli citizen I would seek to impeach any President who didn't try to kill the leader of Hamas

On the same token, why the F*CK are my tax dollars going to the israeli war machine, making enemies out of people who would otherwise have nothing to do with us?

Your tax dollars also went to the Taliban, and North Korea.

How were our tax dollars going to arm the Taliban and North Korea?

Taliban

Already in 2001 the U.S. has provided $125 million in so-called humanitarian aid to the country, making us the world's single largest donor to Afghanistan. Rest assured the money went straight to the Taliban, and not to the impoverished, starving residents that make up most of the population. Do we really expect a government as intolerant and anti-west as the Taliban to use our foreign aid for humane purposes? If so, we are incredibly naive; if not, we foolishly have been seeking to influence a government that regards America as an enemy.

Incredibly, in May the U.S. announced that we would reward the Taliban with an additional $43 million in aid for its actions in banning the cultivation of poppy used to produce heroin and opium. Taliban rulers had agreed to assist us in our senseless drug war by declaring opium growing "against the will of God." They weren't serious, of course. Although reliable economic data for Afghanistan is nearly impossible to find (there simply is not much of an economy), the reality is that opium is far and away the most profitable industry in the country. The Taliban was hardly prepared to give up virtually its only source of export revenue, any more than the demand for opium was suddenly going to disappear. If anything, Afghanistan's production of opium is growing. Experts estimate it has doubled since 1999; the relatively small country is now believed to provide the raw material for fully 75% of the world's heroin. How tragic that our government was willing to ignore Taliban brutality in its quest to find "victories" in the failed drug war.

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2001/tst110501.htm

North Korea

The relationship between the two powers is not entirely antagonistic. In response to the food crisis that intensified in North Korea beginning in 1995, the Clinton administration has provided millions of dollars in humanitarian aid (over $170 million in 1998), principally through the UN. In April 1999, the U.S. government agreed to its first direct assistance to North Korea: 100,000 metric tons of food as well as a project coordinated with several U.S. nongovernmental organizations that will introduce new potato varieties to North Korean farms. The two countries are also cooperating to find the remains of U.S. soldiers killed in the North during the Korean War. And North Korea has sent several delegations to the United States for technical assistance regarding energy and agriculture.

http://www.fpif.org/briefs/vol4/v4n15nkor_body.html

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: dahunan
Wouldn't you try to kill the leader of Hamas if you were an Israeli?

If I was an Israeli citizen I would seek to impeach any President who didn't try to kill the leader of Hamas

On the same token, why the F*CK are my tax dollars going to the israeli war machine, making enemies out of people who would otherwise have nothing to do with us?

Your tax dollars also went to the Taliban, and North Korea.

How were our tax dollars going to arm the Taliban and North Korea?

Taliban

Already in 2001 the U.S. has provided $125 million in so-called humanitarian aid to the country, making us the world's single largest donor to Afghanistan. Rest assured the money went straight to the Taliban, and not to the impoverished, starving residents that make up most of the population. Do we really expect a government as intolerant and anti-west as the Taliban to use our foreign aid for humane purposes? If so, we are incredibly naive; if not, we foolishly have been seeking to influence a government that regards America as an enemy.

Incredibly, in May the U.S. announced that we would reward the Taliban with an additional $43 million in aid for its actions in banning the cultivation of poppy used to produce heroin and opium. Taliban rulers had agreed to assist us in our senseless drug war by declaring opium growing "against the will of God." They weren't serious, of course. Although reliable economic data for Afghanistan is nearly impossible to find (there simply is not much of an economy), the reality is that opium is far and away the most profitable industry in the country. The Taliban was hardly prepared to give up virtually its only source of export revenue, any more than the demand for opium was suddenly going to disappear. If anything, Afghanistan's production of opium is growing. Experts estimate it has doubled since 1999; the relatively small country is now believed to provide the raw material for fully 75% of the world's heroin. How tragic that our government was willing to ignore Taliban brutality in its quest to find "victories" in the failed drug war.

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2001/tst110501.htm

North Korea

The relationship between the two powers is not entirely antagonistic. In response to the food crisis that intensified in North Korea beginning in 1995, the Clinton administration has provided millions of dollars in humanitarian aid (over $170 million in 1998), principally through the UN. In April 1999, the U.S. government agreed to its first direct assistance to North Korea: 100,000 metric tons of food as well as a project coordinated with several U.S. nongovernmental organizations that will introduce new potato varieties to North Korean farms. The two countries are also cooperating to find the remains of U.S. soldiers killed in the North during the Korean War. And North Korea has sent several delegations to the United States for technical assistance regarding energy and agriculture.

http://www.fpif.org/briefs/vol4/v4n15nkor_body.html

Ohh yeah...providing humanitarian assistance....working together to FIND THE BODIES OF MISSING US SERVICEMAN....that sounds like arming the Taliban and North Korea.

The whole world is up in arms because we shipped bags of rice and wheat to those two countries. I can see all those terrorists marching in the street because of that g%^ rice.

Give me a fricking break....not even anywhere close to the same situation.

 

[railer]

How can a terrorist be a leader who deserves any respect?

I'm thinking someone is still having diffuculty grasping the whole ridiculous "terrorist" label.

To some, Sharon is a terrorist.
To some, Bush is a terrorist.

Do you see now?

To the ignorant, if you do EXACTLY the same thing that "terrorists" do, except you do it with an F16 or an M1A1, you're somehow "not" a terrorist anymore, no matter how many innocent people you happen to kill.

 

[StormRider]

I have no problem with Israel killing members of Hamas. But I also think they need to remove the settlements and try to make life better for the regular Palistinian.

 

[SuperTool]

Who are we to tell Israel to stop trying to kill the Terrorist Organization that attacks them consistently?

When they start paying their own bills and not take our money, they can do whatever the hell they want. Until they do, we can tell them whatever the hell we want.

 

[JellyBaby]

When they start paying their own bills and not take our money, they can do whatever the hell they want. Until they do, we can tell them whatever the hell we want.

It's one of those engtangled alliances Tommy warned us about. Seems he was on the money, eh?

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: konichiwa
Let's apply some of the favorite arguments from around this forum to this issue:

Our money, our agenda. Originally posted regarding the aid package for Africa re: AIDS re: abstinence training, this applies marvelously here. The Israelis would not be able to kill anybody without our X billion dollars in aid and military training/equipment.

We are the most powerful nation on earth. What gave us the right to invade Iraq should give us the right to tell Israel what to do, right? Might makes right, right?

...

What gave Saddamn the right to invade kuwait? What gave that rapist to rape that girl?

 

[konichiwa]

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: konichiwa
Let's apply some of the favorite arguments from around this forum to this issue:

Our money, our agenda. Originally posted regarding the aid package for Africa re: AIDS re: abstinence training, this applies marvelously here. The Israelis would not be able to kill anybody without our X billion dollars in aid and military training/equipment.

We are the most powerful nation on earth. What gave us the right to invade Iraq should give us the right to tell Israel what to do, right? Might makes right, right?

...

What gave Saddamn the right to invade kuwait?

Nothing. Do two wrongs make a right?

What gave that rapist to rape that girl?

Again, nothing. And what's your point?

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: Fencer128

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
Some of you are forgetting the fact that Hamas has called off their talks with the PA PM and vowed to continue the intifada. Saying Israel is jeopardizing the peace process in attempting to remove what is a clear road-block to it is just a bit retarded.

Killing more Hamas members will not "remove the road block" (or at least it hasn't ever worked so far). In fact, the perpetual violence that has been the trademark of the Israel/Palestine could be free to continue indefinitely.

Unless...

1. Israel give the Palestinian leadership some breathing space in order to attempt to get a grip on the extremist terrorist groups.

2. Israel exercises restraint (given that history appears to show that killing a few more terrorists really won't stop the attrocities).

Not perfect (there is the possibility that the Palestinian leadership may not get to control Hamas, etc. but it has to be tried). Doesn't give you that warm, fuzzy we've-achieved-vengence feeling. Does give the best hope for peace I can remember. That's why Israel should call off the dogs for now.

The US has the greatest influence over Israel (and is also their greatest ally). The US is also instrumental to the latest peace plan. That's why the US gets a say in this.

Cheers,

Andy

True.

I aint very knowledgable about religion, but logically isnt it that Israel cannot exercise restraint - must not, to be exact. After all they are no Christians, and believe in the old Testament. doesnt it say "an eye for an eye
, a tooth for a tooth" in the old one? Not sure but wasnt the old testment the brutal-bloody one, where ppl, kids, animals are to be slaughtered when they do not believe in (their) God...

Like I said I dont know that much about the bible but I thaught it was the old Testsment that says this. And since Israelis are mostly Jews, they believe in the oldTestament - right ? So then their way of action makes perfect sense - even though it is not logical - but since when do Religion and Logic mate....

on a side note: actually I am getting confused, what is the Tora then - I thaught I also heard that name for their holy scrolls

 

[LeadMagnet]

All of this never ending killing in the middle east has me depressed, I don't know how to fix their problems if they don't stop killing. There fore I will just take the ignorant approach and say. "Nuke'm all, and let god sort it out!" . And then I would go to confession do a couple prayes and I will be ok too. See one big happy ending, for those not glowing.

 

[Conky]

There will never be peace in Israel until all of the Hamas members and sympathizers are killed. Hama's stated goal is all Jews out of Israel by any means necessary. This is obviously never going to happen. Which in turn means that there will be no peace until there is no more Hamas.

Disgruntled Palestinians are the equivalent of the American Indian. They may have been slighted but there in no turning back time. The American Indian is not getting back the USA and Hamas is not getting Israel.

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: Crazyfool
There will never be peace in Israel until all of the Hamas members and sympathizers are killed. Hama's stated goal is all Jews out of Israel by any means necessary. This is obviously never going to happen. Which in turn means that there will be no peace until there is no more Hamas.

Disgruntled Palestinians are the equivalent of the American Indian. They may have been slighted but there in no turning back time. The American Indian is not getting back the USA and Hamas is not getting Israel.

Yeah, another slaughter and we're providing Israel with the weapons.

Israel sent helicopters to kill a senior Hamas political leader in the crowded streets of Gaza yesterday but failed, leaving two other Palestinians dead and 27 wounded. The missile attack threatened to rekindle a cycle of violence and wreck a new U.S.-backed peace effort.

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: BOBDN

Originally posted by: Crazyfool
There will never be peace in Israel until all of the Hamas members and sympathizers are killed. Hama's stated goal is all Jews out of Israel by any means necessary. This is obviously never going to happen. Which in turn means that there will be no peace until there is no more Hamas.

Disgruntled Palestinians are the equivalent of the American Indian. They may have been slighted but there in no turning back time. The American Indian is not getting back the USA and Hamas is not getting Israel.

Yeah, another slaughter and we're providing Israel with the weapons.

Israel sent helicopters to kill a senior Hamas political leader in the crowded streets of Gaza yesterday but failed, leaving two other Palestinians dead and 27 wounded. The missile attack threatened to rekindle a cycle of violence and wreck a new U.S.-backed peace effort.

So by your logic, the USA is responsible for the Hamas Suicide bombers like
this one? Before you claim it's retaliation, they've been doing this for years and they will continue to do it using any pathetic excuse a terrorist supporter like yourself can dream up for them. Hamas has stated their demands and they will never be met unless Israel is willing to undergo a holocaust type mass killing. Somehow, I don't think the people of Israel are going to give into that part of the demand.

Israel should hunt down and kill all those terrorists. Peace will never come until Hamas is dead.

 

[drewshin]

it seems the only problem the pro-israeli camp has with the palestinian terrorists is that they go after civilians only.

perhaps if groups like hamas started to go after israeli political/militaryleaders and happen to kill or injure scores of other civilians who happen to be around during their attack like the israelis have done, they wouldnt have such a problem with them.

 

[railer]

I know...let's send Hamas some Apache's and F16's. That's the quickest way to stop "terrorism". They wouldn't waste their time going after civilian targets then. They could attack the Israeli military and political leadership. It's not terrorism if you kill people from an Apache, remember...

 

[KAMAZON]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Wouldn't you try to kill the leader of Hamas if you were an Israeli?

If I was an Israeli citizen I would seek to impeach any President who didn't try to kill the leader of Hamas

If you actually give a damn, you will research to see that it was Arial Sharon himself acting as Finance minister of Israel in the 1980s who funded HAMAS which he saw a movement based on religious zeal to counter Arafats nationalistic and political FATWA movement. Yitzhak Rabin admitted it. Any money HAMAS got at the beginning came from Israel as Sharon (Finance Minister) was responsible for overseeing the funds allocated to the "Occupied Territories". Israel has killed much more civilians, about 3x more, than ALL the attacks on legit and non-legit targets from the Palestanians. Sharon is doing this when Abu Mazen is making peace talks to halt attacks with HAMAS, now Sharon provokes them in such a way to get a reaction to derail the peace progress.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Crazyfool
There will never be peace in Israel until all of the Hamas members and sympathizers are killed. Hama's stated goal is all Jews out of Israel by any means necessary. This is obviously never going to happen. Which in turn means that there will be no peace until there is no more Hamas.

Disgruntled Palestinians are the equivalent of the American Indian. They may have been slighted but there in no turning back time. The American Indian is not getting back the USA and Hamas is not getting Israel.

We should also kill all the right wing jews too right? They are the ones setting up illegal settlements on Arab land. They are just as bad as they encourage more violence.