White house ready to drop public option.

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: blackangst1


One week: Democrats: We dont have death panels!
Next week: Democrats: We have dropped the death panels!

so, you believe that there were death panels?

I understand WHAT the Dems were proposing, and to some extent I agree. What the Dems did (no surprise) is fuck up their marketing. They couldnt market or legislate their ideas out of a wet paper bag. hey need some SERIOUS PR work.

So wait... because you're morons enslaved to believing every single word of your party's propaganda machine, even when it is obviously and patently false, that the Dems' fault?

Oh yeah, personal responsibility indeed :roll:

Reading comprehension = fail. Not even in the ballpark to what I wrote.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Why can't people JUST admit the current plan on the table is a BAD one? IF the plan is so good and perfect, why are the democrat themselves fighting over it. Also, IF the plan is a good one, the democrat shouldn't have the worry about the reelection if they pass it.

According to some *cough* its because of the GOP spreading lies

/lmao

Palin's "death panels" were not bald-faced lies? Oh wait, they clearly were. So what are you saying here?

Then WHY! did the senate bill drop the death panel verbage?

Thats what so fucking funny.

One week: Democrats: We dont have death panels!
Next week: Democrats: We have dropped the death panels!

I swear, the intellectual conservative is an extinct animal at this point. You're fscking morons absolutely incapable of any form of independent thought.

Am I wrong? uh, no. Thats exactly what they did and how they reacted.

Only if your sole sources of political news are Rush Limbaugh and Fox News.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: blackangst1


One week: Democrats: We dont have death panels!
Next week: Democrats: We have dropped the death panels!

so, you believe that there were death panels?

I understand WHAT the Dems were proposing, and to some extent I agree. What the Dems did (no surprise) is fuck up their marketing. They couldnt market or legislate their ideas out of a wet paper bag. hey need some SERIOUS PR work.

So wait... because you're morons enslaved to believing every single word of your party's propaganda machine, even when it is obviously and patently false, that the Dems' fault?

Oh yeah, personal responsibility indeed :roll:

Reading comprehension = fail. Not even in the ballpark to what I wrote.

Your backpedal = obvious

LOL! timewarped even

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: blackangst1


One week: Democrats: We dont have death panels!
Next week: Democrats: We have dropped the death panels!

so, you believe that there were death panels?

I understand WHAT the Dems were proposing, and to some extent I agree. What the Dems did (no surprise) is fuck up their marketing. They couldnt market or legislate their ideas out of a wet paper bag. hey need some SERIOUS PR work.

so, you dont believe it was a death panel?

I'm just trying to get a straight answer.

I very clearly and succinctly stated my opinion. If you fail to understand, Im sorry.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: blackangst1

One week: Democrats: We dont have death panels!
Next week: Democrats: We have dropped the death panels!

so, you believe that there were death panels?

I'm not in favor of the public option (so I'm not sad to see it go), but in all my life I have never seen anything more Orwellian in actual practice in the politics of this country as this "death panel" bullshit. Well, and maybe this nonsense about how it's an open/free market that you could drop your employer's tax-free benefits and go use your after-tax income to buy your own health insurance coverage. WTF.

Yes we have consumers making rational decisions in response to irrational regulations. Health care should not be tied to employment, but because of govt regulation it is.

Originally posted by: spidey07
Just stop with your lies. Stop it. You are FREE to get your own health insurance and NOBODY will be denied treatment if they need it.

Stop the disinformation and lies. This thread is also reported to flag@whitehouse.gov.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: blackangst1


One week: Democrats: We dont have death panels!
Next week: Democrats: We have dropped the death panels!

so, you believe that there were death panels?

I understand WHAT the Dems were proposing, and to some extent I agree. What the Dems did (no surprise) is fuck up their marketing. They couldnt market or legislate their ideas out of a wet paper bag. hey need some SERIOUS PR work.

so, you dont believe it was a death panel?

I'm just trying to get a straight answer.

I very clearly and succinctly stated my opinion. If you fail to understand, Im sorry.

ohhhhh snap. thanks for the cop out.

do you believe there were death panels?

Blackangst answer: I understand what the dems were proposin and to some extent I agree...

you call that a clear and succinct answer?? HAHAHAHA

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I don't think that the timing is right to be implementing public healthcare reform in the US. The economy is still weak, and the country is at war in two countries right now. Wait a few years and stay out of the next war, and then try for it. Fixing the economy and paying down the national debt should be the main focus of the government right now.

I agree. And giving terminally patients the choice and option to opt out in advance of heroic end-of-life medical measures, the single biggest medical expense in this country, would have been a good place to start cutting costs.

And I agree also. I think the Dems had a good opportunity, and Im not quite sure its blown. But what they were proposing, as a package, is just wrong. The good thing is people (and senators) are talking about it, which is a step in the right direction.

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: her209
So now we get Government Sponsored Entities.

Sweet!!!

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac of Health Insurance......

.....because that worked out so well for the mortgage market!!!

Hey, don't blame me. I wanted the public option.

Me too. I wanted the public option...

It doesn't matter to me. I got pretty good health insurance I guess... I was just hoping we could cover the rest in a more efficient manner.

Just goes to show this country is not ready for change. Too greedy.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Why can't people JUST admit the current plan on the table is a BAD one? IF the plan is so good and perfect, why are the democrat themselves fighting over it. Also, IF the plan is a good one, the democrat shouldn't have the worry about the reelection if they pass it.

According to some *cough* its because of the GOP spreading lies

/lmao

Palin's "death panels" were not bald-faced lies? Oh wait, they clearly were. So what are you saying here?

Then WHY! did the senate bill drop the death panel verbage?

Thats what so fucking funny.

One week: Democrats: We dont have death panels!
Next week: Democrats: We have dropped the death panels!

I swear, the intellectual conservative is an extinct animal at this point. You're fscking morons absolutely incapable of any form of independent thought.

Am I wrong? uh, no. Thats exactly what they did and how they reacted.

Only if your sole sources of political news are Rush Limbaugh and Fox News.

I propose a $1000 paypal bet I can find at least 2 other sources stating the same thing. Bet?

 

[microbial]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Why can't people JUST admit the current plan on the table is a BAD one? IF the plan is so good and perfect, why are the democrat themselves fighting over it. Also, IF the plan is a good one, the democrat shouldn't have the worry about the reelection if they pass it.

According to some *cough* its because of the GOP spreading lies

/lmao

Palin's "death panels" were not bald-faced lies? Oh wait, they clearly were. So what are you saying here?

Then WHY! did the senate bill drop the death panel verbage?

Because the GOP, led by Palin, spread lies about it. WTF do you think I just said?
And that verbiage (written by Earl Blumenauer) was IMO one of the few good things about this whole health care reform idea. But you probably haven't a fscking clue what it was about except for Palin's "death panel" lies which you swallowed like a $20 dollar whore. You probably actually believe that it really is "choice" that in 49 out of the 50 states a terminally-ill person can be forced into heroic medical measures against their will and which can potentially bankrupt their family. Not to mention are the single biggest expense in the health care industry, and which most terminally-ill patients would refuse if given the choice in advance.

How quickly we forget. Can you say Bill Kristol, Johnny?

Since 1993 the entire GOP focus has been to protect health insurance companies and their heavy % yearly increases.

Monkeywrenching healthcare reform is especially sacred to the neocons--they revel in that shit.

If they can confuse people enough to get them out to "Town Hall tea-bagging Meetings" to -essentialy and inexplicably- lobby for the corrupt healthcare insurers, so much the sweeter.

These fvckers are smugly laughing out-loud at all American citizens, especially the dupes that argue against their very own interest.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: blackangst1


One week: Democrats: We dont have death panels!
Next week: Democrats: We have dropped the death panels!

so, you believe that there were death panels?

I understand WHAT the Dems were proposing, and to some extent I agree. What the Dems did (no surprise) is fuck up their marketing. They couldnt market or legislate their ideas out of a wet paper bag. hey need some SERIOUS PR work.

So wait... because you're morons enslaved to believing every single word of your party's propaganda machine, even when it is obviously and patently false, that the Dems' fault?

Oh yeah, personal responsibility indeed :roll:

Reading comprehension = fail. Not even in the ballpark to what I wrote.

Your backpedal = obvious

LOL! timewarped even

How so? I never called it death panels, but used it as a vague refrence to a poster before me who called it such (and you wont find ONE post of mine on this board claiming they are death panels) talking about the 5 year consolt that was being proposed.

Not sure where the confusion is. I stated I support the idea the Dems were pushing, but thought they fucked up the delivery. Whats so confusing about that?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Oh I see OK. I forgot "the industry" doesnt have democrats in their pockets.

they do. I never said they didn't.

No, you just conveniently left them out of your diatribe lol

its not a "few gop" Its all of the gop, all of the neocon talking heads, all of the health insurance lobbyist and it all resonates with people who think we are going to kill them, take their grandmothers and become Russia.

gop found
democrat 404

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
The industry was able to get many dems to come on board as well and there you have it.

Oh I see OK. I forgot "the industry" doesnt have democrats in their pockets.

there. You even quoted me saying it yourself

Sure, 5 posts later now that Ive cornered you on it.

Amateur.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Why can't people JUST admit the current plan on the table is a BAD one? IF the plan is so good and perfect, why are the democrat themselves fighting over it. Also, IF the plan is a good one, the democrat shouldn't have the worry about the reelection if they pass it.

According to some *cough* its because of the GOP spreading lies

/lmao

Palin's "death panels" were not bald-faced lies? Oh wait, they clearly were. So what are you saying here?

Then WHY! did the senate bill drop the death panel verbage?

Because the GOP, led by Palin, spread lies about it. WTF do you think I just said?
And that verbiage (written by Earl Blumenauer) was IMO one of the few good things about this whole health care reform idea. But you probably haven't a fscking clue what it was about except for Palin's "death panel" lies which you swallowed like a $20 dollar whore. You probably actually believe that it really is "choice" that in 49 out of the 50 states a terminally-ill person can be forced into heroic medical measures against their will and which can potentially bankrupt their family. Not to mention are the single biggest expense in the health care industry, and which most terminally-ill patients would refuse if given the choice in advance.

And thats the problem right there. The Dems think that the GOP sees Palin as a "leader". AFAK, they dont. She is nobody now. A year ago, perhaps. In fact, the majority of the GOP, myself included, thinks she blew the whole thing out of proportion. Then along come the Dramaquee...oops...Democrats and think some leader of the GOP is calling them death camps.

/shakes head

Whatever man. If you want to believe the GOP sees her as a leader, feel free. But thinking doesnt make it so. She's irrelevant.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Sure, 5 posts later now that Ive cornered you on it.

Amateur.

that was before whatever you think you have cornered.

You can be the pro

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
I just hope whatever solution at this point includes something so people with preexisting conditions don't just die in the gutter or live with 200k of debt.

FEAR FEAR FEAR!!!

Maybe you could tell people that Obamacare would cover health care after the looming terrorist attacks to garner some support.

so what are you saying? That it's not a problem?

I'm saying you're just like a Republican. Despicable.

 

[sciwizam]

It seems like an another misspeak episode.

Administration Official : "Sebelius Misspoke"

An administration official said tonight that Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius "misspoke" when she told CNN this morning that a government run health insurance option "is not an essential part" of reform. This official asked not to be identified in exchange for providing clarity about the intentions of the President. The official said that the White House did not intend to change its messaging and that Sebelius simply meant to echo the president, who has acknowledged that the public option is a tough sell in the Senate and is, at the same time, a must-pass for House Democrats, and is not, in the president's view, the most important element of the reform package.

I got one thing to say : Bullshit reason for confidentiality. In order to provide clarity they must remain anonymous. :roll:

 

[First]

^ Like I said, a public option will be included, and the bill will pass. Might even pass in September, but definitely by the end of the year barring some major game changer between now and then.

 

[OCGuy]

http://thehill.com/leading-the...option-2009-08-16.html

President Barack Obama himself on Saturday suggested he won?t insist on a public option.
'The public option, whether we have it or we don?t have it, is not the entirety of healthcare reform," ...



It must really anger some of the more liberal posters here that not even the most liberal president we have had in a long time sees the heathcare issue as they do.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: OCguy
http://thehill.com/leading-the...option-2009-08-16.html

President Barack Obama himself on Saturday suggested he won?t insist on a public option.
'The public option, whether we have it or we don?t have it, is not the entirety of healthcare reform," ...



It must really anger some of the more liberal posters here that not even the most liberal president we have had in a long time sees the heathcare issue as they do.

Well Obama has said in the past that he thinks a single payer option is most certainly the best form of health care delivery (as is so obviously shown by all available data), but to shift the US to that immediately would be too big a change. I disagree with his stance, but it's certainly reasonable.

I think that if you look at our situation objectively you'll see that the US will become a single payer system sooner or later, as the evidence for it being the best system available is so overwhelming, and our system so broken, that it will eventually give in to the pressures of reality regardless of the right's attempts to stop it. Just a matter of time, really.

 

[sportage]

Me too. I wanted the public option...

It doesn't matter to me. I got pretty good health insurance I guess... I was just hoping we could cover the rest in a more efficient manner.

And at what point will it matter?
When your company insurance either triples your premiums,
co pays, so that you can not afford care, or when you find yourself
unemployed with no healthcare?

"It doesn?t matter" is not only the wrong attitude, but ones famous last words.

Everyone's... "EVERYONE'S" premiums, co pays and out of pocket is about to
increase to amounts never imagined, if reform fails.
A lot of people with a good job, good company healthcare, will be forced to drop
coverage in order to afford gas, food, and the mortgage. Its coming!

The insurance companies have and are spending huge amounts to buy congress,
buy propaganda, mislead American's.
Do you really believe they will not soon seek to recover their expenses?
And guess who it is that will refresh the CIGNA money pot?
Look in the mirror... Its you.

And republicans thought death panels were to fear.
After CIGNA screws with your company healthcare costs, you'll
wish you had an appointment with that death panel.
And should you or yours become ill, really ill and need your healthcare,
you will experience CIGNA's death panel first hand.
NO ONE does a death panel better than our "healthcare for profit" insurance companies.
And those opponents who ranted at the town meetings will ask.. "was this the alternative?".
Silly silly people.
Banks raise fee's to recoop losses. Credit cards raise rates to recoop losses.
And healthcare for profit insurance companies??? Guess what they do... You'll find out.

 

[ZeGermans]

Originally posted by: OCguy
http://thehill.com/leading-the...option-2009-08-16.html

President Barack Obama himself on Saturday suggested he won?t insist on a public option.
'The public option, whether we have it or we don?t have it, is not the entirety of healthcare reform," ...



It must really anger some of the more liberal posters here that not even the most liberal president we have had in a long time sees the heathcare issue as they do.

hahaha give one single instance of Obama taking a very liberal stance on ANYTHING.

 

[Genx87]

btw I love how it is framed at bowing to Republican pressure when it was a top democrat (Kent Conrad) who said the public option was doa and never had a chance from the beginning.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Genx87
btw I love how it is framed at bowing to Republican pressure when it was a top democrat (Kent Conrad) who said the public option was doa and never had a chance from the beginning.

Not Republican pressure, Republican fear mongering. Big difference. The pressure is coming from an inflamed public reacting irrationally to a propaganda campaign about "pulling the plug on Grandma" and similar lies and disinformation. It's the same tactic by the same slime machine that panicked Americans into invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.

 

[Genx87]

btw democrats used the same tactics to sumbmarine SS reform 4 years ago. Remember granny was going to lose her retirment savings to wall street greed and be forced onto the streets. Eventhough Bush's reform only affected people under 40 if they voluntarily opted into a privatized system. How soon we all forget.


One thing about the non-profit co-ops. It will put to sleep the idea "profits" are the problem in the system when they completely fail to slow the growth of costs within the system.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Genx87
btw I love how it is framed at bowing to Republican pressure when it was a top democrat (Kent Conrad) who said the public option was doa and never had a chance from the beginning.

Not Republican pressure, Republican fear mongering. Big difference. The pressure is coming from an inflamed public reacting irrationally to a propaganda campaign about "pulling the plug on Grandma" and similar lies and disinformation. It's the same tactic by the same slime machine that panicked Americans into invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.

Right from the first line of the story

WASHINGTON ? Bowing to Republican pressure

Blue Dog democrats were the main obstacle here. They wont pass reform that cant be paid for and will only add to the deficit. Democrats can crush a filibuster by Republicans. But they cant because enough in their party will get in the way.