White House Outs CIA Station Chief

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Nov 30, 2006
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I would say the reason it was such an outrage is that an independent federal prosecutor along with a jury found that not only had a senior administration official committed four felonies, but that those felonies obstructed justice to such an extent that other individuals who also likely committed felonies were not able to be prosecuted.

I mean what did you think it was?
Fitzgerald knew from the outset of the investigation that Armitage was the leaker as he immediately admitted it to Powell and the FBI when the story broke. Yet Fitzgerald went on a witch hunt for over 2 years and all he got was Libby (who wasn't the leaker) for (1) perjury by saying that he thought he had gotten his info about Valerie Plame from a conversation with Tim Russert which Russert denied and (2) obstruction by refusing to answer some questions. That whole thing was quite the debacle imo.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Fitzgerald knew from the outset of the investigation that Armitage was the leaker as Armitage immediately admitted it to Powell and the FBI when the story broke. Yet Fitzgerald went on a witch hunt for over 2 years and all he got was Libby (who wasn't the leaker) for (1) perjury by saying that he thought he had gotten his info about Valerie Plame from a conversation with Tim Russert which Russert denied and (2) obstruction by refusing to answer some questions. That whole thing was quite the debacle imo.

I would say that's a very generous view of the case.

He knew that Armitage leaked Plame's identity but there were a number of other questions about who else may have violated federal law. Libby's perjury and obstruction of justice prevented the investigation from determining if those took place.

Additionally, it's not like Libby just made some slip of the tongue and was then convicted of multiple felonies, in order to be convicted of perjury the jury must be unanimously convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that Libby intentionally lied under oath.

Finally, Libby was not convicted of obstruction of justice for refusing to answer a question. As per the indictment Libby was convicted on, the obstruction charge came from multiple false statements Libby made while under oath to the grand jury that were intended to mislead investigators.

Everyone should be outraged at such behavior. We should also be outraged that Bush commuted his sentence.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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The purpose of the attack on Plame was to send a message to the intel community and part of a purge. The message was that they were no longer organizations which objectively provide situational intelligence and other services but they were to deliver a product which would serve as a basis for political action. The purge was to get rid of those who presented factual information in proper context in favor of those who would concoct stories to promote the prior Administrations agenda, namely war in Iraq. Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld needed credible, authoritative lies to build on. This wasn't trivial. It was part of the greater deception which was the prelude to Iraq which resulted in thousands of our deaths, hundreds of thousands killed who had no desire to harm us in Iraq, a few trillion dollars, and various and sundry items like the Patriot Act and related legislation. Make no mistake here- the C-W-R Axis as I will refer to them laid the foundation for every wiretap, every invasion of privacy, everything- that people object to Obama doing.

That's the big deal.

Of course. "Find me a way"- remember? 9/11 was the way, the greatest political windfall since Pearl Harbor. It was crafted into a bludgeon used against all "enemies", foreign & domestic. The truth was never seen as an asset, but rather an impediment to their ambitions.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
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It must be 2014, because before clicking the thread, I put the odds at about 50/50 that the Station Chief was either publically identified, or gay.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,671
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16x9
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I'm waiting for "Obama learned about this at the same time as everyone else... When the morning papers came out"

That's probably a lot closer to the truth than whatever conspiracy theorizing your handlers can come up with.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
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It's rare for an administration to out its intelligence officers — not to mention the highest-ranking CIA officer in Afghanistan.

Excuse this time is that "Its okay because Obama's White House is incompetent."

That will probably work better than blaming a YouTube Video.

A shame they overused the "Its Bush's fault" excuse.

Though, if Hillary was still on board they might try "What difference does it make" again.

How about "The Republicans made the White House do it?"

Or "Obama didn't draw a red line. The world drew a red line?"


If you like your excuses, you can keep your excuses.

Uno
lol +1

I keep seeing the scene in Yellowbeard:
"Next, the head of Her Majesty's Secret Service, NOT to be read out loud. Umm, I mean the, uh, Minister of the Exchequer."

The purpose of the attack on Plame was to send a message to the intel community and part of a purge. The message was that they were no longer organizations which objectively provide situational intelligence and other services but they were to deliver a product which would serve as a basis for political action. The purge was to get rid of those who presented factual information in proper context in favor of those who would concoct stories to promote the prior Administrations agenda, namely war in Iraq. Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld needed credible, authoritative lies to build on. This wasn't trivial. It was part of the greater deception which was the prelude to Iraq which resulted in thousands of our deaths, hundreds of thousands killed who had no desire to harm us in Iraq, a few trillion dollars, and various and sundry items like the Patriot Act and related legislation. Make no mistake here- the C-W-R Axis as I will refer to them laid the foundation for every wiretap, every invasion of privacy, everything- that people object to Obama doing.

That's the big deal.
Plame was "outed" by anti-war Armitage in the anti-war State Department. Armitage "outed" Plame accidentally because given that she was openly working in Langley, he honestly didn't know she was considered covert. (Being a CIA analyst is generally considered even worse cover than is being the wife of an embassy diplomat.) In my opinion she was only considered covert anyway because the CIA wanted to cover its own tracks in sending her freakin' husband to "verify" her information.

It must be 2014, because before clicking the thread, I put the odds at about 50/50 that the Station Chief was either publically identified, or gay.
lol +1 Being gay in Afghanistan is probably equally as dangerous as being the CIA Station Chief, so . . .
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,208
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More like:

Obama did it, nothing to see here.

Not really, but you keep thinking that. I believe that someone should at least lose their job(s) over this. And it is further apart than apples and oranges to the Plame case.
 

Knowing

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2014
1,522
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It is literally impossible for the president to be prosecuted for disclosing classified information as he's the one who decides if its classified or not.

The president may classify things and he can delegate classification authority, but declassifying is not nearly as arbitrary. Please refer to EO13526.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,498
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The president may classify things and he can delegate classification authority, but declassifying is not nearly as arbitrary. Please refer to EO13526.

The president is not bound by the regulations set forth in executive orders.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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Plame was "outed" by anti-war Armitage in the anti-war State Department. Armitage "outed" Plame accidentally because given that she was openly working in Langley, he honestly didn't know she was considered covert. (Being a CIA analyst is generally considered even worse cover than is being the wife of an embassy diplomat.) In my opinion she was only considered covert anyway because the CIA wanted to cover its own tracks in sending her freakin' husband to "verify" her information.

Her freakin husband had just ruffled feathers by exposing a ridiculous ploy on the part of the Bush administration to falsely claim that Iraq was trying to get yellowcake from Nigeria. It was payback.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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Her freakin husband had just ruffled feathers by exposing a ridiculous ploy on the part of the Bush administration to falsely claim that Iraq was trying to get yellowcake from Nigeria. It was payback.
What "payback" are you talking about exactly? It's now quite clear that Armitage was the one who leaked the info and that it was an accident. Fitzgerald knew this at the very beginning of his investigation and told him to keep quiet while he spent more than 2 years "investigating" the matter. Edit: I think see your viewpoint now...you think Libby deliberately leaked the info prior to Armitage and was being directed to do so by Cheney. Evidence?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/armitage-on-cia-leak-i-screwed-up/

In an exclusive interview with CBS News national security correspondent David Martin, Richard Armitage, once the No. 2 diplomat at the State Department, couldn't be any blunter.

"Oh I feel terrible. Every day, I think I let down the president. I let down the Secretary of State. I let down my department, my family and I also let down Mr. and Mrs. Wilson," he says.
When asked if he feels he owes the Wilsons an apology, he says, "I think I've just done it."

In July 2003, Armitage told columnist Robert Novak that Ambassador Wilson's wife worked for the CIA, and Novak mentioned it in a column. It's a crime to knowingly reveal the identity of an undercover CIA officer. But Armitage didn't yet realize what he had done.
So, what exactly did he tell Novak?

"At the end of a wide-ranging interview he asked me, 'Why did the CIA send Ambassador (Wilson) to Africa?' I said I didn't know, but that she worked out at the agency," Armitage says.

Armitage says he told Novak because it was "just an offhand question." "I didn't put any big import on it and I just answered and it was the last question we had," he says.

Armitage adds that while the document was classified, "it doesn't mean that every sentence in the document is classified.

"I had never seen a covered agent's name in any memo in, I think, 28 years of government," he says.

He adds that he thinks he referred to Wilson's wife as such, or possibly as "Mrs. Wilson." He never referred to her as Valerie Plame, he adds.

"I didn't know the woman's name was Plame. I didn't know she was an operative," he says.

He says he was reading Novak's newspaper column again, on Oct. 1, 2003, and "he said he was told by a non-partisan gun slinger."

"I almost immediately called Secretary Powell and said, 'I'm sure that was me,'" Armitage says.
Armitage immediately met with FBI agents investigating the leak.

"I told them that I was the inadvertent leak," Armitage says. He didn't get a lawyer, however.

"First of all, I felt so terrible about what I'd done that I felt I deserved whatever was coming to me. And secondarily, I didn't need an attorney to tell me to tell the truth. I as already doing that," Armitage explains. "I was not intentionally outing anybody. As I say, I have tremendous respect for Ambassador. Wilson's African credentials. I didn't know anything about his wife and made an offhand comment. I didn't try to out anybody."

That was nearly three years ago, but the political firestorm over who leaked Valerie Plame's identity continued to burn as Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald began hauling White House officials and journalists before a grand jury.

Armitage says he didn't come forward because "the special counsel, once he was appointed, asked me not to discuss this and I honored his request."

"I thought every day about how I'd screwed up," he adds.

Armitage never did tell the president, but he's talking now because Fitzgerald told him he could.
 
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Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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Her freakin husband had just ruffled feathers by exposing a ridiculous ploy on the part of the Bush administration to falsely claim that Iraq was trying to get yellowcake from Nigeria. It was payback.

How was it "ridiculous"?

The British intelligence made the claim, and they stuck by it.

Her husband didn't actually do any investigation, unless you consider having cocktails over there with a friend and asking them about it an investigation.

I remember looking in to it at the time and their big export was yellowcake. The other thing they exported back then was coconut husks and other useless stuff.

If yellowcake doesn't make sense then nothing makes sense. So why the Iraqi meeting?

Fern
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,702
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Her freakin husband had just ruffled feathers by exposing a ridiculous ploy on the part of the Bush administration to falsely claim that Iraq was trying to get yellowcake from Nigeria. It was payback.

You're right and Scooter Libby had his conversation with Judith Miller before Novack Printed his article. And it is alleged by Judith Miller that he did mention Valerie Plame perhaps in hope that she would print the information.

Ironically Novack did report Plame's identity and Novack got his information from Armitage. This course gives people who are so inclined, an excuse to give the Bush Administration a pass based on who the source ultimately was. While ignoring the fact that Libby did leak information to a reporter in hopes of discrediting Ambassador Wilson


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/murray-waas/exclusive-the-paradox-tha_b_38902.html
Two days after Wilson's column appeared, on July 8, 2003, Libby met for a two hour breakfast meeting with Judith Miller at the St. Regis hotel in Washington. During that meeting, Miller has testified and the federal grand jury of Libby has alleged, Libby spoke at some length as to the fact that Plame worked for the CIA. Libby has denied Miller's account, saying the two never discussed Plame that morning.


According to Fitzgerald, Cheney not only knew that his aide was about to meet with Miller, but encouraged him as to what to say at the meeting. Libby's own notes contained an instruction, presumably from Cheney, to "tell information to Ms. Miller on July 8."


But both Libby and Cheney insist that such instruction refer to orders by Cheney that Libby leak portions of a classified National Intelligence Estimate regarding Iraq's nuclear weapons program that Cheney believed would undercut Wilson's allegations.
While so far the station chief of in the area working for the CIA seems to be an accident and something that should have been avoided.
The issues around the leak in 2003 are surrounded by more dubious events.
Especially since Wilson has so far proven correct in that there has (so far) been no discovery of a real Nuclear Weapons Program run by the former dictator Saddam Hussein.

Although one would think that physical evidence for it would have been found by now if it truly existed at all.


e2a

If anyone really wants to really get as close to an unfiltered account of the case then this book might be a good source.
http://www.amazon.com/The-United-Sta.../dp/B001G8WULM


...
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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Her freakin husband had just ruffled feathers by exposing a ridiculous ploy on the part of the Bush administration to falsely claim that Iraq was trying to get yellowcake from Nigeria. It was payback.
Bush knew that story was a plant when he made his speech - that's why he said "the British have learned" rather than "we have learned". At that point, remember, British intelligence were sticking by that claim even though Iraq already had hundreds of tons of Nigerian yellowcake uranium; what they lacked was sufficient enrichment equipment. But again, it was anti-war Armitage who leaked Plame's name under the reasonable assumption that since she was openly working at Langley, she was not in fact a covert operative.

Are you really okay with the CIA "investigating" an analyst's claims by sending her untrained diplomat husband? Was there actually any need to discredit Wilson given that he had zero CIA training and in fact, his "investigation" (about which he blatantly lied when he claimed that Cheney's office sent him) consisted of drinking tea with Nigerian officials and asking them if they were breaking international sanctions by trying to help Saddam Hussein get nuclear weapons?

How was it "ridiculous"?

The British intelligence made the claim, and they stuck by it.

Her husband didn't actually do any investigation, unless you consider having cocktails over there with a friend and asking them about it an investigation.

I remember looking in to it at the time and their big export was yellowcake. The other thing they exported back then was coconut husks and other useless stuff.

If yellowcake doesn't make sense then nothing makes sense. So why the Iraqi meeting?

Fern
What the Iraqi envoy discussed with the Nigerian government is the big mystery. Since Iraq already had hundreds of tons of Nigerian yellowcake and Nigeria really has no other useful (to Iraq) exports, my guess is either terrorism (probably pointless since at that time Nigeria like many nations was trying to end the sanctions stemming from its sponsorship of terrorism) or more likely, trans-shipping banned items bought with funds earmarked for humanitarian purchases. Why would Iraq want more yellowcake when it held a decades-long supply at its current enrichment ability?

I have read the theory that Saddam wanted more yellowcake that wasn't known, but surely he would first seek out the enrichment capability. Otherwise he's taking an additional risk without any guarantee it would ever pay off, whereas if he got the enrichment capability and then got caught he could kick out the inspectors and enrich what he already had.
 

Knowing

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2014
1,522
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The president is not bound by the regulations set forth in executive orders.

Executive orders are enforced by law, so it'd be neato if you could show me some evidence that the president can violate his own rules (the law) without revoking the executive order.

Also, if he plans to violate the executive order why wouldn't he just write the order in such a way that he has unilateral power to classify and declassify at will? ie: the power that you're granting him on some basis yet to be seen (I'm sure you'll be providing proof imminently).
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,498
50,651
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Executive orders are enforced by law, so it'd be neato if you could show me some evidence that the president can violate his own rules (the law) without revoking the executive order.

This is a truly novel legal theory that you're putting forth! Basically you're arguing that the president lacks the authority to violate orders that only have validity... from his authority. It is particularly interesting that you think that the president needs to follow some sort of procedure for changing executive orders, as there is no statute or constitutional regulation of how executive orders are created or rescinded. So again your argument seems to be that the president can't act a certain way because the president said so.

Since apparently you think that the president can't violate executive orders, there should be some evidence for this. Can you provide me with a single, solitary example where this has happened in the entirety of US history? Just one? Failing that, can you provide me with a single, solitary example where this has even been argued in court, much less accepted by any court?

Just one will do.

Also, if he plans to violate the executive order why wouldn't he just write the order in such a way that he has unilateral power to classify and declassify at will? ie: the power that you're granting him on some basis yet to be seen (I'm sure you'll be providing proof imminently).

The president has the constitutional authority to control all classified material as established in Navy v. Egan. Furthermore, it is not necessary for Obama to grant himself a power through executive order that he already possesses.
 
Nov 25, 2013
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How was it "ridiculous"?

The British intelligence made the claim, and they stuck by it.

Her husband didn't actually do any investigation, unless you consider having cocktails over there with a friend and asking them about it an investigation.

I remember looking in to it at the time and their big export was yellowcake. The other thing they exported back then was coconut husks and other useless stuff.

If yellowcake doesn't make sense then nothing makes sense. So why the Iraqi meeting?

Fern

So, in short, you either know nothing at all about his investigation of the 'intelligence' or, you simply want to rehash the same arguments from a few years ago. You think that they still might find those WMDs?

You also still believe in 'Curve Ball'?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Her freakin husband had just ruffled feathers by exposing a ridiculous ploy on the part of the Bush administration to falsely claim that Iraq was trying to get yellowcake from Nigeria. It was payback.

Yep.

Robert Novak did the public outing, only after confirming the story with multiple sources, one of whom was.... Karl Rove.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-07-11-cia-leak_x.htm?csp=34

Novak is too good at what he does to single source a story. It took more than one person to out Plame, and the Bushistas pursued their part with vindictive glee.

This whole flap about outing the station chief in Afghanistan is just another attempt to segue into revisionist history. Yeh, somebody screwed up. Stupid shit happens all the time. Just deal with it.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Bush knew that story was a plant when he made his speech - that's why he said "the British have learned" rather than "we have learned". At that point, remember, British intelligence were sticking by that claim even though Iraq already had hundreds of tons of Nigerian yellowcake uranium; what they lacked was sufficient enrichment equipment. But again, it was anti-war Armitage who leaked Plame's name under the reasonable assumption that since she was openly working at Langley, she was not in fact a covert operative.

Are you really okay with the CIA "investigating" an analyst's claims by sending her untrained diplomat husband? Was there actually any need to discredit Wilson given that he had zero CIA training and in fact, his "investigation" (about which he blatantly lied when he claimed that Cheney's office sent him) consisted of drinking tea with Nigerian officials and asking them if they were breaking international sanctions by trying to help Saddam Hussein get nuclear weapons?


What the Iraqi envoy discussed with the Nigerian government is the big mystery. Since Iraq already had hundreds of tons of Nigerian yellowcake and Nigeria really has no other useful (to Iraq) exports, my guess is either terrorism (probably pointless since at that time Nigeria like many nations was trying to end the sanctions stemming from its sponsorship of terrorism) or more likely, trans-shipping banned items bought with funds earmarked for humanitarian purchases. Why would Iraq want more yellowcake when it held a decades-long supply at its current enrichment ability?

I have read the theory that Saddam wanted more yellowcake that wasn't known, but surely he would first seek out the enrichment capability. Otherwise he's taking an additional risk without any guarantee it would ever pay off, whereas if he got the enrichment capability and then got caught he could kick out the inspectors and enrich what he already had.

Gawd. There were only 2 conspiracies active at the time. The first was to justify the invasion of Iraq by any means possible, and the other was to punish anybody who discredited their lies. The rest doesn't even matter.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Yep.

Robert Novak did the public outing, only after confirming the story with multiple sources, one of whom was.... Karl Rove.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-07-11-cia-leak_x.htm?csp=34

Novak is too good at what he does to single source a story. It took more than one person to out Plame, and the Bushistas pursued their part with vindictive glee.

This whole flap about outing the station chief in Afghanistan is just another attempt to segue into revisionist history. Yeh, somebody screwed up. Stupid shit happens all the time. Just deal with it.
lol Making a "flap" about Team Obama outing the CIA station chief in Afghanistan now is "just another attempt to segue into revisionist history", whereas bringing up Team Bush "outing" an open CIA employee a decade ago is, um, totally relevant and important. Somehow.

Evidently bliss is not only ignorance, it's being literally too stupid to appreciate one's own unintended irony.

Gawd. There were only 2 conspiracies active at the time. The first was to justify the invasion of Iraq by any means possible, and the other was to punish anybody who discredited their lies. The rest doesn't even matter.
lol This is your brain on drugs.

Well - your brain stem on drugs.