White House Announces New Muslim Ban

[desura]

Ok and? Your double standards continue to shine through.

Double standards are mostly seen in regards to Mexican immigration. Simply put, Chinese and Hindus are roughly in the same basket as Muslims but they don't come close to the death tolls inflicted by Muslims.

 

[sandorski]

You clearly haven't seen the Muslims who act like all science can be found in the Quran. It was Christian theology which drained spirituality out of the material world, paving the way for secularism.

Wrong again. Should also note that many Christians think the same of the Bible as Muslims the Koran.

 

[sandorski]

Double standards are mostly seen in regards to Mexican immigration. Simply put, Chinese and Hindus are roughly in the same basket as Muslims but they don't come close to the death tolls inflicted by Muslims.

What?

 

[Paratus]

You clearly haven't seen the Muslims who act like all science can be found in the Quran. It was Christian theology which drained spirituality out of the material world, paving the way for secularism.

That there are fundamentalist muslims who only find truth in their book is no different than fundamentalist Christians in this country who do the same.

Luckily we live in a country who's constitution was written during the Age of Enlightenment and includes separation of church and state.

So while I find fundamentalism of any bent to be backwards and individually harmful I am not frightened of it so long as fundamentalist beliefs stay separated from governmental powers. Furthermore as long as the person can live by the laws of this country religious belief should not preclude them from living here.

I also know that exposure to a secular country can have a mollifying effect over time.

 

[agent00f]

You clearly haven't seen the Muslims who act like all science can be found in the Quran. It was Christian theology which drained spirituality out of the material world, paving the way for secularism.

LOL @ christian trying to mock his muslim counterpart. "People who worship that other book are so dumb".

 

[Victorian Gray]

Untrue. Muslims in Europe have made the argument that secularism is actually Christian governance.

Out of curiosity, which Muslims and who, other than themselves, do they represent? When and where was the argument made? What was the actual argument being made and in what circumstances? You do have information about this don't you?

 

[Vic]

You clearly haven't seen the Muslims who act like all science can be found in the Quran. It was Christian theology which drained spirituality out of the material world, paving the way for secularism.

The modern scientific method was originally developed by a Muslim, Ibn al-Haytham. Muslims invented algebra and decimal numbers. Literally all that the western world knows of science and mathematics passed through the Islamic world before it came to Europe and started the Renaissance.
I'm sure that there are a lot of backwards people of all religions, including Islam, but seriously, something like 40% of Christians in the US today believe in the creationism in the bible and that evolution is some kind of hoax.
Your broadbrushing just doesn't even make sense.

 

[ivwshane]

Are you guys seriously hoping to enlighten him or change his mind? The guy is only focused on one thing and that's spreading his bigotry. He's another extremist just like the right wing anti government types or a Muslim extremist, he's simply preaching the same shit from a different book.

You guys can't save everyone and some people aren't worth saving. He'll die as a bitter old man hell bent on taking as many people with him as he can.

 

[desura]

The modern scientific method was originally developed by a Muslim, Ibn al-Haytham. Muslims invented algebra and decimal numbers. Literally all that the western world knows of science and mathematics passed through the Islamic world before it came to Europe and started the Renaissance.
I'm sure that there are a lot of backwards people of all religions, including Islam, but seriously, something like 40% of Christians in the US today believe in the creationism in the bible and that evolution is some kind of hoax.
Your broadbrushing just doesn't even make sense.

False. Hindu indians invented decimal numbers and algebra. Because the Muslim empire also intruded into India, they transmitted those ideas to the Europeans.

There are always common people, but in the Islamic world, whoever their Copernicus and Galileo were did not win. Fundie Muslims will say that their religion is recursive in a way that doubles back in on itself...so it is perfect, but limited.

 

[justoh]

(I) For the most part they just maintained ancient greek knowledge after the fall of rome, as significant as that was. (II) Wasn't a whole lot of independent thought going on, with the exception of one or two notable philosophers, (III) we can cope just fine without arabic numerals, tyvm.

 

[mikeymikec]

Anyone killing fellow soldiers for ideological reasons is a big deal. Two big cases in one decade is a big deal.

Repeating my previous question: What would it prove?

---

You know what? I give up. There is no point trying to get any logical train of thought out of you: one that has an assertion, at least some correlation with undisputed evidence, justification and conclusion and can stand up to some critical analysis (that you ought to have already come up with yourself).

I've never understood why people come to a forum to blindly assert stuff and ignore any evidence/responses to the contrary.

 

[sdifox]

(I) For the most part they just maintained ancient greek knowledge after the fall of rome, as significant as that was. (II) Wasn't a whole lot of independent thought going on, with the exception of one or two notable philosophers, (III) we can cope just fine without arabic numerals, tyvm.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_world_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe

Read a little.

 

[Victorian Gray]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world

Read a little.

Bigots tend not to care much about reality.

 

[ch33zw1z]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_world_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe

Read a little.

I'm glad you got these, I was done babysitting.

 

[justoh]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_world_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe

Read a little.

I mean, it just confirmed what I had stated. Did you even read it yourself, or just post your google search results?

Historians of science differ in their views of the significance of the scientific accomplishments in the medieval Islamic world. The traditionalist view, exemplified by Bertrand Russell,[55] holds that Islamic science, while admirable in many technical ways, lacked the intellectual energy required for innovation and was chiefly important for preserving ancient knowledge, and handing it on to medieval Europe. The revisionist view, exemplified by Abdus Salam,[56] George Saliba[57] and John M. Hobson[58]holds that a Muslim scientific revolution occurred during the Middle Ages.[59] Scholars such as Donald Routledge Hill and Ahmad Y Hassan argue that Islam was the driving force behind these scientific achievements

 

[desura]

Repeating my previous question: What would it prove?

---

You know what? I give up. There is no point trying to get any logical train of thought out of you: one that has an assertion, at least some correlation with undisputed evidence, justification and conclusion and can stand up to some critical analysis (that you ought to have already come up with yourself).

I've never understood why people come to a forum to blindly assert stuff and ignore any evidence/responses to the contrary.

You constantly make very lazy equivocations. It is very typical of Muslim defenders, who tend to be males who admire the masculine qualities of the religion.

and enough of making these declarations. I have explained why your assertions and equivocations are nonsense using the actual facts of the examples. The cases of Muslim soldiers in the US Army killing their fellow soldiers because their loyalty to Islam was greater than their loyalty to the United States is not in any way comparable to soldiers who get into personal squabbles. You don't even bother reading the facts and act like it is proven when it isn't.

 

[fskimospy]

I mean, it just confirmed what I had stated. Did you even read it yourself, or just post your google search results?

Did you even read the thing you quoted?

 

[sdifox]

I mean, it just confirmed what I had stated. Did you even read it yourself, or just post your google search results?

Do you even science?

I edited to include the second link just to make it easlier for you, but I can't do anything with willful ignorance.

 

[desura]

The Islamic empire declined for reasons that cannot be blamed on European "colonialism". Internally, the religion made for a less than stimulating environment, and over the centuries this is why they failed to keep pace.

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science

Reason, because it teaches us to discover, question, and innovate, was the enemy; al-Ghazali argued that in assuming necessity in nature, philosophy was incompatible with Islamic teaching, which recognizes that nature is entirely subject to God’s will: “Nothing in nature,” he wrote, “can act spontaneously and apart from God.” While al-Ghazali did defend logic, he did so only to the extent that it could be used to ask theological questions and wielded as a tool to undermine philosophy. Sunnis embraced al-Ghazali as the winner of the debate with the Hellenistic rationalists, and opposition to philosophy gradually ossified, even to the extent that independent inquiry became a tainted enterprise, sometimes to the point of criminality. It is an exaggeration to say, as Steven Weinberg claimed in the Times of London, that after al-Ghazali “there was no more science worth mentioning in Islamic countries”; in some places, especially Central Asia, Arabic work in science continued for some time, and philosophy was still studied somewhat under Shi’ite rule. (In the Sunni world, philosophy turned into mysticism.) But the fact is, Arab contributions to science became increasingly sporadic as the anti-rationalism sank in.

 

[justoh]

Guess I'm just too old for revisionist history. Next you guys will tell us that ringo starr was a good drummer, or that hillary won the election.

 

[sandorski]

The Islamic empire declined for reasons that cannot be blamed on European "colonialism". Internally, the religion made for a less than stimulating environment, and over the centuries this is why they failed to keep pace.

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science

We understand that Religion was the reason for the Arab Worlds regression. What you fail to understand is that Europe went the opposite route. Instead of Religion rising to power and subverting progression, in Europe and the West we subverted Religion to progress.

 

[agent00f]

Guess I'm just too old for revisionist history. Next you guys will tell us that ringo starr was a good drummer, or that hillary won the election.

I'm curious what makes you or desura believe they take much of any part in the progress made by post-enlightenment western liberalism. Other than maybe being born in the right place/ethnicity inherent to conservative ideology.

 

[mikeymikec]

For another possible reason (though not necessarily exclusive) for this "not a Muslim ban", I came across this article this morning:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-39238808

20 million people under threat of starvation, and two of the countries listed are on Trump's ban. That is pretty fucked up (though by the looks of things since Trump became president, just another day for a Republican government).

 

[justoh]

For another possible reason (though not necessarily exclusive) for this "not a Muslim ban", I came across this article this morning:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-39238808

20 million people under threat of starvation, and two of the countries listed are on Trump's ban. That is pretty fucked up (though by the looks of things since Trump became president, just another day for a Republican government).

Lol. Now Trump wants to starve africans, by preventing them from travelling to the us for its cheap fast food, I assume.

What's hampering aid?

Continuing fighting, lack of rule of law, poor governance, under-development.

A naval embargo imposed by the Saudi-led coalition, fighting around the government-controlled port of Aden and air strikes on the rebel-held port of Hudaydah, have severely reduced imports since 2015.

 

[mikeymikec]

Lol. Now Trump wants to starve africans, by preventing them from travelling to the us for its cheap fast food, I assume.

Refugees, dipshit. Go derp somewhere else.