White House Announces New Muslim Ban

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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,734
18,004
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Why don't we wait and see if a Muslim ban is ever enacted, before freaking out? So pathetic. Oooh. The ebil boogeyban coming to get me! Grow up.

That's exactly how people supporting the muslim ban view Muslim's based on their religion alone. So funny you should post that.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,614
13,296
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No. Muslims move here for material reasons. Many really end up despising the culture here and especially the foreign policy. Muslims are underrepresented in the armed forces because very few of them possess a love of country.

Religious makeup of the US
350px-Religions_of_the_United_States.png


According to this source on military demographics (PDF)

http://secular.org/files/mldc-ripsdemographics_0.pdf

0.6% are Muslim.

So at least in my profession 0.6% = 0.6%
Were you misinformed?
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Enjoy giving up your rights in lieu of perceived safety.

Trump didn't have shit to do with post 9-11 changes. He's riding a wave of hate and fear, the Muslim ban is because that's what he promised his voter base, which I'm sure largely supports the Patriot Act.

Trump was reacting in outrage to the San Bernardino attack where a second-generation Muslim immigrant who was given every opportunity by America and who had a good paying job and was treated well at every turn, decided to kill 14 people and would 21 more alongside his wife.

San Bernardino invalidates this myth that Muslims in America don't turn to terrorism because of the freedoms we allow them. The truth is that there are simply fewer Muslims in America than there are in Europe, and that our Muslims are susceptible to incitement especially with the Internet.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
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Religious makeup of the US
350px-Religions_of_the_United_States.png


According to this source on military demographics (PDF)

http://secular.org/files/mldc-ripsdemographics_0.pdf

0.6% are Muslim.

So at least in my profession 0.6% = 0.6%
Were you misinformed?

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/us/muslims-us-military.html

1/3 underrepresentation.

More importantly, many Muslims have killed their fellow troops. In the first gulf war, Sgt. Asan Ackbar threw grenades into the tents of his fellow troops. It was because he was Muslim. And of course Ft. Hood.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,734
18,004
146
Trump preyed on the outrage, not reacted. He saw it as an opportunity, and played it like a fiddle.

Nobody excuses the guy from San Bernardino attacked.

There is no myth, that's perception...again.

Our freedoms don't stop people from doing terrible things, sometimes it's ideologically motivated. Just look at the forwardness since Trump's election. How many white Christians are going to kill people before we ban Christians?
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,734
18,004
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https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/us/muslims-us-military.html

1/3 underrepresentation.

More importantly, many Muslims have killed their fellow troops. In the first gulf war, Sgt. Asan Ackbar threw grenades into the tents of his fellow troops. It was because he was Muslim. And of course Ft. Hood.

Well here we are. That's exactly why you have Muslim refugee's trying to come here, because Muslim's that believe Islam differently are killing people with different beliefs then their own.

Christianity went through similar things between Catholicism and other Christian beliefs systems. Religious persecution among their own is nothing new.

This translates directly into why a "Muslim ban" doesn't make sense to begin with.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,717
47,406
136
Why don't we wait and see if a Muslim ban is ever enacted, before freaking out? So pathetic. Oooh. The ebil boogeyban coming to get me! Grow up.

We already did see a Muslim ban enacted, twice.

Stupid people keep trying to argue that because all Muslims aren't banned that this isn't a ban on Muslims. This is similar to saying that the literacy tests put forth in the segregation era south weren't laws made to stop black people from voting just because some black people could pass them. This is a dumb argument that should be ignored.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
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Well here we are. That's exactly why you have Muslim refugee's trying to come here, because Muslim's that believe Islam differently are killing people with different beliefs then their own.

Christianity went through similar things between Catholicism and other Christian beliefs systems. Religious persecution among their own is nothing new.

This translates directly into why a "Muslim ban" doesn't make sense to begin with.

I do not think you grasped the point.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7210-2005Apr21.html

This guy here killed his fellow soldiers because his Muslim loyalties outweighed his America loyalties.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
17,577
9,268
136

I do find it 'interesting' that, had this been a soldier with some other religious beliefs, especially Christian ones, then the "oh, but he clearly had mental issues" card would have been played, as opposed to, "this clearly says something about Christians in general", despite the number of other Christians or Muslims serving in the US military who have not slaughtered their fellow soldiers respectively.

Anyway, back to our scheduled programming of "a load of reasons why people like desura and justoh justify their hate while engaging in no critical analysis whatsoever".
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Trump preyed on the outrage, not reacted. He saw it as an opportunity, and played it like a fiddle.

Nobody excuses the guy from San Bernardino attacked.

There is no myth, that's perception...again.

Our freedoms don't stop people from doing terrible things, sometimes it's ideologically motivated. Just look at the forwardness since Trump's election. How many white Christians are going to kill people before we ban Christians?

San Bernardino is simply conveniently forgotten and overlooked.
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
91
I do find it 'interesting' that, had this been a soldier with some other religious beliefs, especially Christian ones, then the "oh, but he clearly had mental issues" card would have been played.

Just shows the hypocrisy of the left. It's ok to point out that Christians have mental issues, but not Muslims. It's a dangerous form of self hate, imho.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
Why don't we wait and see if a Muslim ban is ever enacted, before freaking out? So pathetic. Oooh. The ebil boogeyban coming to get me! Grow up.
For whatever reason they hate us, it still stands to reason that we should not let more of them in.

There's something like 10k gun deaths in the US per year, but white nationalists focusing on the important things like which lower status brown to blame everything on.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,734
18,004
146
Just shows the hypocrisy of the left. It's ok to point out that Christians have mental issues, but not Muslims. It's a dangerous form of self hate, imho.

That's not what he said. I'll clear it up for you.

If a Muslim does something violent, it's because Islam

If a Christian does something violent, it's because of mental issues.

How about we just call it like it is, religion is a mental disorder.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
That's not what he said. I'll clear it up for you.

If a Muslim does something violent, it's because Islam

If a Christian does something violent, it's because of mental issues.

How about we just call it like it is, religion is a mental disorder.

Because you ignore what they are actually saying.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
17,577
9,268
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Just shows the hypocrisy of the left. It's ok to point out that Christians have mental issues, but not Muslims. It's a dangerous form of self hate, imho.

Any person, Christian, Muslim or otherwise may have a mental problem. Who has said otherwise (let alone a multitude who could possibly have similar enough views to constitute "the left")?

Maybe ch33zw1z cleared up your confusion? <shrugs>

How about we just call it like it is, religion is a mental disorder.

I don't agree with this bit, unless 'mental disorder' isn't intended as a negative (I suspect it is though).
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
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Just setting the baseline.

For context, I don't associate belief and religion. There's a difference.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,734
18,004
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I don't agree with this bit, unless 'mental disorder' isn't intended as a negative (I suspect it is though).

As a person with people close to me that have what is considered a mental disorder (not religion specifically), I really don't intend it as a negative. Just setting a starting point to approach a topic subjectively

It's very obvious in our society that people with mental disorders are often ostracized, looked down upon, etc...So I know it's easily interpreted as a negative.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
17,577
9,268
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A few minutes of browsing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Liberty_killings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_of_Phillip_Esposito_and_Louis_Allen

Neither mention the religious beliefs of the culprits, but according to this page:
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/11/12/raw-data-religious-preference-in-the-military/

26.3% of US military personnel have no religious belief (or unknown), which leaves 73.7% as having religious beliefs, of which 0.003% say they're Muslim. Similar percentages (to Islam) look to me like they're for non-Christian religions, which leaves the rest as Christian. The chances are high that the culprits might identify as Christian.

PS - I only bothered to google for this because you think that alleged religious beliefs are terribly important when looking at these apparently very uncommon crimes. Perhaps we should factor in every friendly fire incident in the US military in recent history and say "well, what if it was deliberate, and what are the chances that those responsible claim to be Christian?"?

In your example the fact that the culprit is Muslim seems to be irrelevant to the case. I'm failing to see what your overall point attempts to be.