White House: All your banks are belong to us

[XZeroII]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29304214/

So far, I'm not too impressed by the new administration. I still hope that everything turns out well, but this is starting to look scary. If you thought that the Bush Admin. was bad at taking away liberties, then Obama is looking downright Socialist to the core.

Gibbs was pressed for more details on his answer ? specifically whether Obama would not nationalize banks. He said it was hard for him to be any clearer.

In other words, All your banks are belong to us.

 

[smack Down]

There are only 3 options with the banking sector:
1. Let them die
2. Give them a shit load of money
3. Take them over and then give them a shit load of money.

I vote for 1.

 

[BoomerD]

Why not? If we're gonna make major investments in the banks to prop them up, why not just take them over as a means of managing our investment? We all know the government is such a wonderful steward of taxpayer money...

 

[frostedflakes]

Wait, am I missing something? The article seems to make it pretty clear that they have *no* intention to nationalize the banks.

 

[imported_K3N]

Originally posted by: smack Down
There are only 3 options with the banking sector:
1. Let them die
2. Give them a shit load of money
3. Take them over and then give them a shit load of money.

I vote for 1.

Or you can force 'em to force to file for bankruptcy and get them to get rid of their derivatives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNnl-DCvY9g

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Wait, am I missing something? The article seems to make it pretty clear that they have *no* intention to nationalize the banks.

He could not be any more clear on the subject. He said so himself.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: smack Down
There are only 3 options with the banking sector:
1. Let them die
2. Give them a shit load of money
3. Take them over and then give them a shit load of money.

I vote for 1.

Agreed

 

[MovingTarget]

Nationalizing banks is taking away civil liberties?

Honestly, an FDR style "bank holiday" may be just what we need to restore confidence.

 

[nergee]

You mean that 25B bridge loan to Citi (and however much the
taxpayer has given them after that) hasn't had the desired effect?

Why am I not surprised.....

 

[GuitarDaddy]

How about we make every Investment banker, Stock broker, Mortgage broker, Mortgage banker, Mega builder, and Regulator that made over $200k a year for the last 5 years pay back 60% of their earnings for that 5yr period. And if they can't come up with the cash bankrupt their asses and put their mansions up for sale.

The government is considering making Madoff's invester's who recieved supposed income payments return the money so it can be redistributed. I don't see much difference between Madoff's ponsie scheme and what these guys did.


Madoff sold thin air for $1, these guys sold painted and polished wooden nickel's for $1

In this context it is easier to see and understand what Madoff did, he just took the rampant false inflation of values and total lack of regulatory oversite to the next level, and actually proved that in the "that" Wall street environment you could manfacture package and sell 100% unadulterated bullshit and make a huge profit and do it for years upon years without getting caught

 

[Jhhnn]

Obviously, the new Admin would rather *not* nationalize any of the banks, but they may not really have a choice. That's the size of the hole bankers themselves, the former Admin and former leadership of the FRB have left us in.

Ownership Society! Rah! Deregulate! Free Market! Cut red tape! Cashout/refi! Get it now! It'll never be cheaper! Get in now, or be shut out forever and ever! Introductory rates! Four more years! Rah! Rah! Rah!

Or are the memories too painful to face up to?

 

[brxndxn]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Nationalizing banks is taking away civil liberties?

Honestly, an FDR style "bank holiday" may be just what we need to restore confidence.

YES. Nationalize a bank and WE are forced to pay for it. I don't want to pay for a bank.

I want to see bad business fail.. and better business come in and take its place. There are MANY banks that are sitting high and mighty because they did not spend like idiots and give out loans to unqualified people. Let those better banks get the failed banks' business.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: brxndxn

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Nationalizing banks is taking away civil liberties?

Honestly, an FDR style "bank holiday" may be just what we need to restore confidence.

YES. Nationalize a bank and WE are forced to pay for it. I don't want to pay for a bank.

I want to see bad business fail.. and better business come in and take its place. There are MANY banks that are sitting high and mighty because they did not spend like idiots and give out loans to unqualified people. Let those better banks get the failed banks' business.

You want to see bad business fail? That's exactly what they did with Lehman Brothers, and it nearly caused the worldwide financial system to collapse. Thanks, but no thanks. We would have to be bugfuck insane to purposefully do that again.

 

[cwjerome]

If the major national banks failed this world would turn into pure shit depression in about 3 days. Get real. This is not just a business.

I'm all for GM and other businesses going bankrupt but the banking/financial system is a vital national security issue and must be safeguarded. Throwing money at them and bogus stimulus packages won't work effectively and sets a disasterous precedent. To hell with rewarding these assholes for failure. If a major bank has screwed up so bad then the government should step in, clean house, reorganize, and auction off.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: brxndxn

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Nationalizing banks is taking away civil liberties?

Honestly, an FDR style "bank holiday" may be just what we need to restore confidence.

YES. Nationalize a bank and WE are forced to pay for it. I don't want to pay for a bank.

I want to see bad business fail.. and better business come in and take its place. There are MANY banks that are sitting high and mighty because they did not spend like idiots and give out loans to unqualified people. Let those better banks get the failed banks' business.

I fail to see how, as you put it, forcing the taxpayers to "pay" for a bank nationalization is a violation of civil liberties. Agreeing with such a move is something else entirely, but it doesn't infringe on any rights of the people. If you see some right that would be violated by such a move, please, by all means bring it up. It would make a great debate/conversation.

Besides, those banks that are sitting high and mighty because they were prudent in their lending wouldn't be nationalized anyway. There is simply no political will to do so.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
If the major national banks failed this world would turn into pure shit depression in about 3 days. Get real. This is not just a business.

I'm all for GM and other businesses going bankrupt but the banking/financial system is a vital national security issue and must be safeguarded. Throwing money at them and bogus stimulus packages won't work effectively and sets a disastrous precedent. To hell with rewarding these assholes for failure. If a major bank has screwed up so bad then the government should step in, clean house, reorganize, and auction off.

How is our waning industrial base not a matter of national security? I'd say that our manufacturing capacity is one of the hallmarks of American military power. To let it evaporate would be insane.

 

[Vic]

So what the OP is saying is that those hundreds of billions in bailout monies should go to the banks with no strings attached?

 

[StageLeft]

I don't know if it's the right answer or not. Cannot even guess at this point.

I will however say that when the markets dropped on Friday in part because of concerns about nationalize and then the administration quickly tried to calm fears about that, I knew that yeah there will be nationalization on some level.

The question I have is: How will this short-term impact the stock market and how will it short-term impact the dollar?

 

[Thump553]

Personally I wish the Adminstration would give some serious creedance to the rising tide of authoritative voices-from both the right and left-calling for at least a temporary nationalization of at least some banks.

Under the current bailout style system, we are going to pour tons of federal money down this rathole and end up with the same clowns running the same "too large to fail" financial institutions, and possbily under the same piss-poor ineffective regulations.

Take over the weak sisters, run them through the wringer and sell them off ASAP.

Obama's heart is in the right direction but he is too concerned about short term effects on the stock market. If some idiot decides to speculate on Citicorp stock when it's less than $2 a share he or she should learn they are undertaking a huge amount of risk.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: cwjerome
If the major national banks failed this world would turn into pure shit depression in about 3 days. Get real. This is not just a business.

I'm all for GM and other businesses going bankrupt but the banking/financial system is a vital national security issue and must be safeguarded. Throwing money at them and bogus stimulus packages won't work effectively and sets a disastrous precedent. To hell with rewarding these assholes for failure. If a major bank has screwed up so bad then the government should step in, clean house, reorganize, and auction off.

How is our waning industrial base not a matter of national security? I'd say that our manufacturing capacity is one of the hallmarks of American military power. To let it evaporate would be insane.

I would argue that we are still industrially powerful and that such industry can be quickly ramped up if need be. (And you cannot be suggesting our military industrial complex is in a lax state... are you?) The fact is there is no need to take drastic action because we face some crisis over our manufacturing capability, because we don't. We need to face the issue at hand.

Our financial system trumps all because it's the foundation and fuel for the economy at large. GM could die tomorrow and our economy would drive on after a minor hiccup. If our banking/financial system were to die it would set off a chain of events that would rip this nation apart. Every business in this country would fold or lose at least 50% of its value and the world would see the worst depression in history.

I would say you better get your priorities straight.

 

[theeedude]

GOP wants us to give banks money without taking share of ownership? The banks that would be nationalized are ones that would not survive otherwise.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: senseamp
GOP wants us to give banks money without taking share of ownership? The banks that would be nationalized are ones that would not survive otherwise.

Fuck the GOP, if they had the answers why didn't they do something before the shit hit the fan? They are no better than the Dems, probably a lot worse which still isn't saying a lot about the Dems.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: cwjerome
If the major national banks failed this world would turn into pure shit depression in about 3 days. Get real. This is not just a business.

I'm all for GM and other businesses going bankrupt but the banking/financial system is a vital national security issue and must be safeguarded. Throwing money at them and bogus stimulus packages won't work effectively and sets a disastrous precedent. To hell with rewarding these assholes for failure. If a major bank has screwed up so bad then the government should step in, clean house, reorganize, and auction off.

How is our waning industrial base not a matter of national security? I'd say that our manufacturing capacity is one of the hallmarks of American military power. To let it evaporate would be insane.

I would argue that we are still industrially powerful and that such industry can be quickly ramped up if need be. (And you cannot be suggesting our military industrial complex is in a lax state... are you?) The fact is there is no need to take drastic action because we face some crisis over our manufacturing capability, because we don't. We need to face the issue at hand.

Our financial system trumps all because it's the foundation and fuel for the economy at large. GM could die tomorrow and our economy would drive on after a minor hiccup. If our banking/financial system were to die it would set off a chain of events that would rip this nation apart. Every business in this country would fold or lose at least 50% of its value and the world would see the worst depression in history.

I would say you better get your priorities straight.

We still are industrially powerful, but if the domestic auto industry goes belly-up, that would be a significant blow to our industrial dominance. Our MIC as a whole is top-notch, but should the shit really hit the fan, it is the heavy industry now used for civilian purposes that really determines our strength. It is this latent capacity that we use to ramp up military production in a real time of war. We don't want our heavy industry to be beholden to military production. That would be dangerous.

I also disagree on your assesment of the financial sector. It is not the 'foundation' of our economy, merely the grease in the wheels of the economy. Without it, everything stops, but it cannot drive our economy alone. You cannot build any sort of economy purely off of finance. Sure, GM could die, but heavy industry is not an efficient market. Once it is gone, our industrial capacity will take a LONG time to recover, especially once their suppliers start closing up shop. We can keep them going for now, but eventually GM will have to be split up. Those calling for bankruptcy have no idea what they are really asking for.

My priorities are straight. It is that kind of "Wall Street first" thinking that is screwed up.

 

[piasabird]

Rick bankers just buy homes in Florida where their primary home is protected under the law from bankruptcy. That is what Madoff did with a lot of his money. 50 million $$$ house. Sister 50 million $$ house wife 50 Million $$ house. All protected from bankruptcy.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: cwjerome
If the major national banks failed this world would turn into pure shit depression in about 3 days. Get real. This is not just a business.

I'm all for GM and other businesses going bankrupt but the banking/financial system is a vital national security issue and must be safeguarded. Throwing money at them and bogus stimulus packages won't work effectively and sets a disastrous precedent. To hell with rewarding these assholes for failure. If a major bank has screwed up so bad then the government should step in, clean house, reorganize, and auction off.

How is our waning industrial base not a matter of national security? I'd say that our manufacturing capacity is one of the hallmarks of American military power. To let it evaporate would be insane.

I would argue that we are still industrially powerful and that such industry can be quickly ramped up if need be. (And you cannot be suggesting our military industrial complex is in a lax state... are you?) The fact is there is no need to take drastic action because we face some crisis over our manufacturing capability, because we don't. We need to face the issue at hand.

Our financial system trumps all because it's the foundation and fuel for the economy at large. GM could die tomorrow and our economy would drive on after a minor hiccup. If our banking/financial system were to die it would set off a chain of events that would rip this nation apart. Every business in this country would fold or lose at least 50% of its value and the world would see the worst depression in history.

I would say you better get your priorities straight.

We still are industrially powerful, but if the domestic auto industry goes belly-up, that would be a significant blow to our industrial dominance. Our MIC as a whole is top-notch, but should the shit really hit the fan, it is the heavy industry now used for civilian purposes that really determines our strength. It is this latent capacity that we use to ramp up military production in a real time of war. We don't want our heavy industry to be beholden to military production. That would be dangerous.

I also disagree on your assesment of the financial sector. It is not the 'foundation' of our economy, merely the grease in the wheels of the economy. Without it, everything stops, but it cannot drive our economy alone. You cannot build any sort of economy purely off of finance. Sure, GM could die, but heavy industry is not an efficient market. Once it is gone, our industrial capacity will take a LONG time to recover, especially once their suppliers start closing up shop. We can keep them going for now, but eventually GM will have to be split up. Those calling for bankruptcy have no idea what they are really asking for.

My priorities are straight. It is that kind of "Wall Street first" thinking that is screwed up.

OK... so do you believe industrial manufacturing is on the verge of collapse? Or just making a point that it's as important as the financial sector? Other than disagreeing with me, I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

On one hand you say the financial sector is not the foundation and in the next sentence you say that without it, everything stops. So which is it? Nothing can "drive our economy alone" so I don't know where that's coming from, but you seem to admit that without monetary stability, access to credit, and all the other things the financial sector provides, a free market cannot function. That's my point. Finance and banking doesn't need GM but GM needs finance and banking.

Every major depression in US history was mostly the result of the finance/banking sector taking a huge shit... and this has the potential for being the worse. You can call it "wall street first" thinking, but I call it simple common sense.