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White collar workers turning to unions.

techs

Lifer
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-union-white-collar-20130516,0,4888842.story?track=lat-pick

White-collar workers are turning to labor unions

"There is a great deal of unrest among professional workers, who don't have a history of union joining behavior," one expert says. "They represent the frontiers of unionization in America."

NEW YORK — The next wave of union protesters isn't blue collar.

It's lawyers, paralegals, secretaries, helicopter pilots, judges, insurance agents and podiatrists.

These white-collar workers are not exactly the picture of the labor movement, but they are becoming a more essential part of it as they turn to unions for help in a tough economy as bosses try to squeeze out more profits.

"Employers have been downsizing, asking employees to take on larger roles, making them work more hours," said Nicole Korkolis, spokeswoman for the Office and Professional Employees International Union. "People are feeling like they need an advocate."

Members of UAW Local 2320 in New York, nearly half of whom are lawyers, voted to strike Wednesday, after their employer, Legal Services NYC, pushed for cuts to benefits in a recent contract negotiation.

Many of them had never been involved with labor unions before, but they said decisions by management led them to take the drastic action of voting to strike.

"They're pushing a lot of changes that are making it a less pleasant place to work," said Logan Schiff, 30, who recently left his job in the corporate world to become a lawyer helping clients facing foreclosures on Staten Island.

Like many in his union, he puts the blame on his employer's board members, who he says are unwilling to compromise. "These are corporate lawyers, making millions of dollars a year, dictating the policies of management," he said.

Some experts see professional workers such as Schiff as the future of the labor movement in a job market where white-collar employment is increasing and the manufacturing industry is steadily diminishing. Professionals account for 62% of the U.S. workforce, up from 15% in 1977.



This should be interesting. The same people that were convinced unions were no longer necessary and actually supported destroying them have found that now they are in same boat as the former union members.
 
Good news to hear. Many workers in and not in unions benefit from unions.

Yeah, like unskilled laborers making $30 / hour and the company not being able to fire them for people WILLING to work the same unskilled position for cheaper.

Labor Unions had their place when the spread of information was a fraction of what it is today and technology did not allow us to expose bad working conditions in a manageable time frame. Today, they are irrelevant. If a company has deplorable conditions, you need but use the video camera in your pocket to record it and put it on Youtube. Email the link to several news sites and the appropriate authority.

The majority of unions make unreasonable demands that force companies to pay more than the market value for labor.
 
Lawyers and doctors already have their own labor unions.

Labor legislation can keep people unemployed and it doesn't do what liberals want them to do.

The UAW was a factor in the failure of GM.
 
GM was a factor in the failure of GM...it was the factor. The UAW was a small small part of GM going down...

Unions only are worthwhile when the Leadership of the union actually works for its rank and file benefit and isn't on the take, and, the rank and file actually give a sh1t in sufficient numbers about the long term welfare of their job and the company to not only go the distance and strike if necessary, but, also not ask for inane/insane things. Using the UAW and to me locally Fords CAP as an example, is how unions can go really wrong.

Chuck
 
GM was a factor in the failure of GM...it was the factor. The UAW was a small small part of GM going down...

Unions only are worthwhile when the Leadership of the union actually works for its rank and file benefit and isn't on the take, and, the rank and file actually give a sh1t in sufficient numbers about the long term welfare of their job and the company to not only go the distance and strike if necessary, but, also not ask for inane/insane things. Using the UAW and to me locally Fords CAP as an example, is how unions can go really wrong.

Chuck

Even in the case of Hostess, the union spokesperson stated they understood Hostess as a company would have to shut down if they were to strike, but decided to strike anyway. I think Hostess literally had no money to pay some pension fund for its workers because they were not making enough to operate AND pay them. Good thing those union workers got what they wanted! Now they get to get unemployment while looking for another job, which they will make more than market value for packaging Twinkies.
 
Even in the case of Hostess, the union spokesperson stated they understood Hostess as a company would have to shut down if they were to strike, but decided to strike anyway. I think Hostess literally had no money to pay some pension fund for its workers because they were not making enough to operate AND pay them. Good thing those union workers got what they wanted! Now they get to get unemployment while looking for another job, which they will make more than market value for packaging Twinkies.

i dont believe unions had anything to do with the hostess failure... that was one brand that could sell shit in a plastic bag. the fact they couldnt make enough money falls squarely on management, imo. that, or the owners simply wanted too big of a profit.
 
Even in the case of Hostess, the union spokesperson stated they understood Hostess as a company would have to shut down if they were to strike, but decided to strike anyway. I think Hostess literally had no money to pay some pension fund for its workers because they were not making enough to operate AND pay them. Good thing those union workers got what they wanted! Now they get to get unemployment while looking for another job, which they will make more than market value for packaging Twinkies.

I actually salute the Hostess workers for striking: At least they had the balls to go all the way and strike. That Hostess went belly up after they did so is a sad side effect, but, if the company was that bad off from such a short strike, it was likely going to go under anyways...or, was seriously bad off in the least.

My point is/was, unions today have become a joke. Their Leadership is on the take, and their membership won't do the necessary hard thing to actually get the benefits they all feel they deserve. Thus, because of these two things (corruption and puss), they do not get what they feel they deserve and thus their attitude, and consequently morale, goes down. When that happens, their work output and/or quality goes down. Which lends itself to the already overcompensated* union worker making less of a case for themself.

*: Overcompensated in relation to their non-union competition who given the chance will gladly work that job for less than the union person, not the CEO/Leadership who are disgustingly overpaid, regardless if Leadership being disgustingly overpaid matters not to the company bottom line in relation to the union overcompensation.

Chuck
 
i dont believe unions had anything to do with the hostess failure... that was one brand that could sell shit in a plastic bag. the fact they couldnt make enough money falls squarely on management, imo. that, or the owners simply wanted too big of a profit.

The company was having problems and stopped paying into the union pension or something of that sort. The union rep stated if they went on strike, Hostess would certainly go under and it was debatable if they were going under without a strike. This was a few months ago, and I didn't follow it very closely, so I might be mistaken, but I think this was correct. Their sales had been in the decline and the unions making above what they should, certainly did not help matters.
 
I think its absolutely hilarious though white collar workers organizing and striking. Can't wait for the world to be more integrated in the coming decades, China and India to be that much more of a service powerhouse, and watching millions (then to be 10's of millions) of white collar workers lose their jobs to what will then be easily outsourced professional service China/India contracting services.

Need legal help? English speaking Chinese/Indian team of bar certified lawyers will handle your case for same money or less and 1/4 the time as US based lawyer.

Need accounting help? English speaking Chinese/Indian team of CPAs will handle your needs for same money or less and 1/4 the time as US based CPA.

Etc etc.

Finally the white collar world will feel what the blue collar world has been feeling for many decades now, all driven by BoD/Leadership greed and white collar collusion. 😀 Not looking forward to getting old, but, sure will be a pleasant thing to keep me entertained in my later years...

Chuck
 
I think its absolutely hilarious though white collar workers organizing and striking. Can't wait for the world to be more integrated in the coming decades, China and India to be that much more of a service powerhouse, and watching millions (then to be 10's of millions) of white collar workers lose their jobs to what will then be easily outsourced professional service China/India contracting services.

Need legal help? English speaking Chinese/Indian team of bar certified lawyers will handle your case for same money or less and 1/4 the time as US based lawyer.

Need accounting help? English speaking Chinese/Indian team of CPAs will handle your needs for same money or less and 1/4 the time as US based CPA.

Etc etc.

Finally the white collar world will feel what the blue collar world has been feeling for many decades now, all driven by BoD/Leadership greed and white collar collusion. 😀 Not looking forward to getting old, but, sure will be a pleasant thing to keep me entertained in my later years...

Chuck

English speaking? I find that hard to believe. I work with a few people who can hardly speak English, but they are good coders so it is okay. =) I can't imagine having a legal team of fobs try and defend you. The jury wouldn't understand a word of it.
 
The company was having problems and stopped paying into the union pension or something of that sort. The union rep stated if they went on strike, Hostess would certainly go under and it was debatable if they were going under without a strike. This was a few months ago, and I didn't follow it very closely, so I might be mistaken, but I think this was correct. Their sales had been in the decline and the unions making above what they should, certainly did not help matters.

The union workers had been taking pay cut after pay cut. They finally had enough of 'working with the company' while management raked it in. Hostess executives even had the nerve to give themselves bonuses on the way out
 
Even in the case of Hostess, the union spokesperson stated they understood Hostess as a company would have to shut down if they were to strike, but decided to strike anyway. I think Hostess literally had no money to pay some pension fund for its workers because they were not making enough to operate AND pay them. Good thing those union workers got what they wanted! Now they get to get unemployment while looking for another job, which they will make more than market value for packaging Twinkies.

No, they got to keep their pensions which were worth more than the low wage jobs with low benefits the company offered them. In terms of actual dollar value they made money.
 
Labor Unions had their place when the spread of information was a fraction of what it is today and technology did not allow us to expose bad working conditions in a manageable time frame. Today, they are irrelevant. If a company has deplorable conditions, you need but use the video camera in your pocket to record it and put it on Youtube. Email the link to several news sites and the appropriate authority.

I don't even know where to begin with that part.

Can I just say wrong?
 
Even in the case of Hostess, the union spokesperson stated they understood Hostess as a company would have to shut down if they were to strike, but decided to strike anyway. I think Hostess literally had no money to pay some pension fund for its workers because they were not making enough to operate AND pay them. Good thing those union workers got what they wanted! Now they get to get unemployment while looking for another job, which they will make more than market value for packaging Twinkies.

We've been through this. The story of Hostess is one of incompetent venture capitalists buying the company, no baking experience, several management teams that changed quickly, and they tried to make up for their screwups on the backs of employees, cutting them over and over already. You had some basically making minimum wage. Then they wanted another big cut, the workers very rightly decided it wasn't worth working for almost nothing, and the owners then scapegoated the unions.
 
English speaking? I find that hard to believe. I work with a few people who can hardly speak English, but they are good coders so it is okay. =) I can't imagine having a legal team of fobs try and defend you. The jury wouldn't understand a word of it.

You shouldn't find it very hard to believe at all. With vast amount of money will come vast amounts of investment. Middle and uppermiddle class Indians and Chinese will make good little slave legal and accounting type profession workers. Not all of them need to speak Engrish, just the one or two that you'll interface with. Heck, you can even interface when them locally in person. The work though, that'll get shipped over to China/India speed of light or, if necessary, FedEx overnight. Cost of shipping will be a pittance to what will be saved in legal/accounting type costs.

We already see it in IT. First it was contracting companies like Amdocs, Tech Mahindra, etc. supplying just coders. Then that changed to coders and testers. Then coders, testers, and requirements. Then coders, testers, requirements, support (level 1 and 2 support, deployments overnight, system management). And now we're seeing the better of these people not take just team lead positions, but VP slots, Executive Director slots, and on down. They're integrating into companies fully.

All these jobs used to be done by Americans...Americans who didn't immigrate into the US and then become American that is. Exactly how does what is progressively becoming other nations workers taking American white collar jobs bode well for Americans? You think other white collar professions are going to become immune? I highly think not...

Chuck
 
I think its absolutely hilarious though white collar workers organizing and striking. Can't wait for the world to be more integrated in the coming decades, China and India to be that much more of a service powerhouse, and watching millions (then to be 10's of millions) of white collar workers lose their jobs to what will then be easily outsourced professional service China/India contracting services.

Need legal help? English speaking Chinese/Indian team of bar certified lawyers will handle your case for same money or less and 1/4 the time as US based lawyer.

Need accounting help? English speaking Chinese/Indian team of CPAs will handle your needs for same money or less and 1/4 the time as US based CPA.

Etc etc.

Finally the white collar world will feel what the blue collar world has been feeling for many decades now, all driven by BoD/Leadership greed and white collar collusion. 😀 Not looking forward to getting old, but, sure will be a pleasant thing to keep me entertained in my later years...

Chuck

Anyone tells me I have an easy job I'll kick in the bollocks. 😛
 
hehe. You didn't think corporations wanted to just replace low wage workers with cheaper foreign labor did you? The real savings are when you replace your 80k to 100k workers with cheap foreign labor.
 
I interact with people in person. I can't even step out for lunch per regs. The problem is that the corporations would rather save $10 than make $50. Granted my company is rated on of the worst in the nation, but cutting minimum wage workers at the risk of safety is criminally stupid. At least a union could make a fuss because the state doesn't care either.
 
Anyone tells me I have an easy job I'll kick in the bollocks. 😛

It's coming. Integration, automation, selfsourcing, and outsourcing, along with our insane to the infinity degree illegal immigration lust, are all going to combine to seriously F over vast amounts of American workers in the coming decades that otherwise would not have had to be F'd over like that, and/or, compete to that level. The American workers in the coming decades really will be taking shits and pissing on the graves of current Americans due to our unrestrained greed and laziness.

You're in a pharmacy? Secure network connected self-vending theft hardened drug dispenser setup to interface with IT standardized doctors orders. Drug user questions? E-mail or if necessary pick up phone on machine and be insta-connected to low wage menu driven Tier 1 support person, who can escalate to Tier 2 if necessary for tougher/off the wall questions. Only need a guy to come stock the machine which self reports when it gets below threshold on drugs. What will we need an almost all day 2 shift staff for?

hehe. You didn't think corporations wanted to just replace low wage workers with cheaper foreign labor did you? The real savings are when you replace your 80k to 100k workers with cheap foreign labor.

Of course not, never did. Not only that you replace the bennies to. No more paying for US health insurance or even having to comply with ACA. Best part is, have let in 10's of millions of illegals. They, and the Indian and Chinese legals we've let in, will be in good control of large amounts of blue collar jobs. Squeezed at both ends. Already see it happening at the blue collar level (natural/now legal Mexicans hire...not non-immigrant Americans, but, shazam, illegal Mexicans and natural/now legal Mexicans for the blue collar jobs they've stole/are stealing from Americans). Schadenfreude is delicious... 😎
 
It's coming. Integration, automation, selfsourcing, and outsourcing, along with our insane to the infinity degree illegal immigration lust, are all going to combine to seriously F over vast amounts of American workers in the coming decades that otherwise would not have had to be F'd over like that, and/or, compete to that level. The American workers in the coming decades really will be taking shits and pissing on the graves of current Americans due to our unrestrained greed and laziness.

You're in a pharmacy? Secure network connected self-vending theft hardened drug dispenser setup to interface with IT standardized doctors orders. Drug user questions? E-mail or if necessary pick up phone on machine and be insta-connected to low wage menu driven Tier 1 support person, who can escalate to Tier 2 if necessary for tougher/off the wall questions. Only need a guy to come stock the machine which self reports when it gets below threshold on drugs. What will we need an almost all day 2 shift staff for?



Of course not, never did. Not only that you replace the bennies to. No more paying for US health insurance or even having to comply with ACA. Best part is, have let in 10's of millions of illegals. They, and the Indian and Chinese legals we've let in, will be in good control of large amounts of blue collar jobs. Squeezed at both ends. Already see it happening at the blue collar level (natural/now legal Mexicans hire...not non-immigrant Americans, but, shazam, illegal Mexicans and natural/now legal Mexicans for the blue collar jobs they've stole/are stealing from Americans). Schadenfreude is delicious... 😎

As far as myself goes I'd already be gone if all I did was count pills. I can't count the number of cock ups I fix. Serious ones. Software hasn't judgement and it causes at least as many problems as it fixes. Eventually I'll be replaced but about that time everyone will. How software will notice slight changes in the interactions it doesn't have is beyond me. So for the foreseeable future my job and those of others where human interaction is superior. Spending a fortune to save 100 bucks in payroll when you just don't spend anything anyway? Ok, but not soon.
 
As we speak, I'm on a conference call for the Communications Workers of America union (I don't know how I got on their call list), and they have a US Sentaor speaking, and the president of the mining union. They said the mining president is going to tell how the world's biggest mining company set up a second company called 'Patriot' to shift 10,000 retirees to to get rid of their healthcare benefits, setting it up to not pay them. Haven't heard the details yet and haven't verified the info independently, but sounds very crappy.

Edit: the Senator is the chair of the labor committe, and this morning they voted on Obama's nominee for Secretary of Labor, Tom Perez. Every Republican voted against him but he passed the committee, now he goes to the full Senate and Republicans plan a filibuster.

Why? The Senator said because he's been great in his labor activities, in contract to labor laws not being enforced (remember, under Bush, Scalia's son, a lawyer who had a background of representing companies AGAINST labot, was appointed in charge of the workers' rights.)

They're also discussing that Obama is appointing members of the National Labor Relations Board, Obama is trying to appoint 3 Democrats and 2 Republicans, his right from winning the eleciton; Republicans want to block two Democrats to get a 2-1 Republican majority, abusing the filibuster again. If there isn't a majority of three by August, they can't pass anything.

This union is discussing the issues and mobilizing members to contact Senators and push for pro-labor votes.
 
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Need accounting help? English speaking Chinese/Indian team of CPAs will handle your needs for same money or less and 1/4 the time as US based CPA.

This has been quietly going on for years, but it's tax work and they're not CPAs. Many large multinational CPA firms have outsourced the tax preparation work to India. In the US a CPA will review the tax return and sign it. i'm not sure how this system allows young college graduates in accounting to get experience.

Fern
 
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