While IT remains a lucrative field...

[IGBT]

Text

While IT remains a lucrative field, InformationWeek's Salary Survey finds that many tech pros don't see it as a promising career..


.. would they do it all again? It doesn't seem likely: About two-thirds of the respondents don't see IT as a promising career. A combination of factors, including stagnant pay, the belief that outsourced work costs Americans jobs, and the recent history of economic and employment gloom, continue to haunt IT pros' attitudes.

 

[acemcmac]

I keep reading one guy who's a habitual writer for Information Week who says that if you are looking for advancement in your company, get the hell out of IT

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: acemcmac
I keep reading one guy who's a habitual writer for Information Week who says that if you are looking for advancement in your company, get the hell out of IT

how is that any different from engineering??

almost every engineer i know that has done very very well, has gone out and gotten an MBA and moved to management.

face it, no one pays you well to do actual work, you have to get into management or sales (marketing) in order to make the big bucks.

 

[Rogue]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: acemcmac
I keep reading one guy who's a habitual writer for Information Week who says that if you are looking for advancement in your company, get the hell out of IT

how is that any different from engineering??

almost every engineer i know that has done very very well, has gone out and gotten an MBA and moved to management.

face it, no one pays you well to do actual work, you have to get into management or sales (marketing) in order to make the big bucks.

That's exactly right. My long term goal is CSO/CIO for a good sized company. I'm building invaluable experience. IT work has progressed down the ranks from being a respected, critical skill to being mostly a baseline, entry level skill area that requires progression to management sooner or later.

 

[IGBT]

..the best opportunities for a technical career exist in public employment especially in mass transportation ie. NewYork Transit..Chicago Transit Authority so forth and so on..they hire many electrical..electronic and IT engineers and pay well.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Rogue

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: acemcmac
I keep reading one guy who's a habitual writer for Information Week who says that if you are looking for advancement in your company, get the hell out of IT

how is that any different from engineering??

almost every engineer i know that has done very very well, has gone out and gotten an MBA and moved to management.

face it, no one pays you well to do actual work, you have to get into management or sales (marketing) in order to make the big bucks.

That's exactly right. My long term goal is CSO/CIO for a good sized company. I'm building invaluable experience. IT work has progressed down the ranks from being a respected, critical skill to being mostly a baseline, entry level skill area that requires progression to management sooner or later.

That's not even close to exact; well, at least not until you scope down what he meant by "no one."

If you look at the chart you can see there are plenty of top-paying careers. If by "no one" it was meant helpdesk, entry level systems support people, etc. then I completely agree; however, at the top of this industry are a lot of people that make well over six figures, and there are a lot of opportunities out there.

Am I talking out of my arse? No. I've worked in just about every major city in the US, and in each one I have to make a decision about which project to take, and at each of those projects there are teams of high quality (I emphasized this as those at the lower end of the ability scale don't apply) all making six figures; I work on a team of about 60 right now, and I know for a fact that over half are anywhere from $100 to $150k.

So, don't let your failings paint a dismal picture of the industry for everyone else. There are so many opportunities out there that it's almost obscene, but IT people need to step up their game. You can't work 8-5 in a cubicle and expect top earnings; unfortunately, those who step up their game generally get picked for lead/management positions, but that need not be the case.

 

[Rogue]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Rogue

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: acemcmac
I keep reading one guy who's a habitual writer for Information Week who says that if you are looking for advancement in your company, get the hell out of IT

how is that any different from engineering??

almost every engineer i know that has done very very well, has gone out and gotten an MBA and moved to management.

face it, no one pays you well to do actual work, you have to get into management or sales (marketing) in order to make the big bucks.

That's exactly right. My long term goal is CSO/CIO for a good sized company. I'm building invaluable experience. IT work has progressed down the ranks from being a respected, critical skill to being mostly a baseline, entry level skill area that requires progression to management sooner or later.

That's not even close to exact; well, at least not until you scope down what he meant by "no one."

If you look at the chart you can see there are plenty of top-paying careers. If by "no one" it was meant helpdesk, entry level systems support people, etc. then I completely agree; however, at the top of this industry are a lot of people that make well over six figures, and there are a lot of opportunities out there.

Am I talking out of my arse? No. I've worked in just about every major city in the US, and in each one I have to make a decision about which project to take, and at each of those projects there are teams of high quality (I emphasized this as those at the lower end of the ability scale don't apply) all making six figures; I work on a team of about 60 right now, and I know for a fact that over half are anywhere from $100 to $150k.

So, don't let your failings paint a dismal picture of the industry for everyone else. There are so many opportunities out there that it's almost obscene, but IT people need to step up their game. You can't work 8-5 in a cubicle and expect top earnings; unfortunately, those who step up their game generally get picked for lead/management positions, but that need not be the case.

I'm going to guess that you work primarily in software development or some other field far away from actually touching and configuring hardware of any kind. If the market is paying network engineers and network security people 6 figures in the major metropolitain areas, it's time for me to move. In short, I hate programming, so if you consider that "stepping up my game" then I guess I'll never get there.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Rogue

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Rogue

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: acemcmac
I keep reading one guy who's a habitual writer for Information Week who says that if you are looking for advancement in your company, get the hell out of IT

how is that any different from engineering??

almost every engineer i know that has done very very well, has gone out and gotten an MBA and moved to management.

face it, no one pays you well to do actual work, you have to get into management or sales (marketing) in order to make the big bucks.

That's exactly right. My long term goal is CSO/CIO for a good sized company. I'm building invaluable experience. IT work has progressed down the ranks from being a respected, critical skill to being mostly a baseline, entry level skill area that requires progression to management sooner or later.

That's not even close to exact; well, at least not until you scope down what he meant by "no one."

If you look at the chart you can see there are plenty of top-paying careers. If by "no one" it was meant helpdesk, entry level systems support people, etc. then I completely agree; however, at the top of this industry are a lot of people that make well over six figures, and there are a lot of opportunities out there.

Am I talking out of my arse? No. I've worked in just about every major city in the US, and in each one I have to make a decision about which project to take, and at each of those projects there are teams of high quality (I emphasized this as those at the lower end of the ability scale don't apply) all making six figures; I work on a team of about 60 right now, and I know for a fact that over half are anywhere from $100 to $150k.

So, don't let your failings paint a dismal picture of the industry for everyone else. There are so many opportunities out there that it's almost obscene, but IT people need to step up their game. You can't work 8-5 in a cubicle and expect top earnings; unfortunately, those who step up their game generally get picked for lead/management positions, but that need not be the case.

I'm going to guess that you work primarily in software development or some other field far away from actually touching and configuring hardware of any kind. If the market is paying network engineers and network security people 6 figures in the major metropolitain areas, it's time for me to move. In short, I hate programming, so if you consider that "stepping up my game" then I guess I'll never get there.

Well, if you look at the top-paying careers they are generally "softer" than most network engineering-related careers.

I know plenty of systems people that still make close to six figures, but there seems to be more of a limit on growth potential.

There are many ways to step up your game, but I don't know your ability nor anything else about you to offer suggestions. I work a lot with smaller consulting firms, and their systems people almost always approach six figures; they step up their game by providing additional value to the client, and that commands a price--you get more if you bill more, for example.

I'm merely trying to say that one can't remain in a cubicle playing with hardware, writing 10 lines of code a day, or anything else that makes you almost invisible to the business. The value we can add as IT people is to identify areas to make money, save money, or improve operating efficiency by applying technical solutions. You have to have a vision greater than the details only a geek would admire.

I don't know where you work, but let's say you work for a manufacturing company; I don't care what it manufactures, because every single environment suffers from countless inefficiencies that you can address by applying technical solutions. Are they having inventory problems? Consider implementing a barcoding solution; you still get to play with hardware. Is their accounting system inefficient, difficult, or prone to error either by user ignorance or otherwise? Consider identifying a better solution, and put yourself in a position to support that system; you'll command a higher income and you'll be indispensable. Does the business have vision of their operating capacity, material shortages, etc.? If not, consider identifying and implementing an MRP solution. Again, you will then be poised to support the system, and as such you will be indispensable.

Those are just some random suggestions, and they are absolutely everywhere. Tell me your industry, your company, and what it is you do and I can give you a list of opportunities.

So, cheer up a bit. The problem is that so many ITers satisfy the technical facet of the IT industry and completely fail to even realize the business facet; you have to have both to realize a fruitful career. This does not mean management; rather, it just means providing additional business value that decouples them from the technical details that you also satisfy. Show an ability to add business value through technical innovation and you'll most definitely hit six figures.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[Svnla]

I have to agree with Descartes. The day of just doing "your job" and then go home is over. You have to be nimble, be flexible, be ready/willing/able to change. You have to think "outside the box" and ready to solve any types of problems for your company business/clients business.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Svnla
I have to agree with Descartes. The day of just doing "your job" and then go home is over. You have to be nimble, be flexible, be ready/willing/able to change. You have to think "outside the box" and ready to solve any types of problems for your company business/clients business.

:thumbsup:

 

[PlatinumGold]

i do software hardware integration for medical offices, i'm now expanding that to lawyer offices and other small marketing organizations. its nothing to the scale of what Descartes or some of you others but there is a huge need for this service. a lot of my clients used to used high school / college kids before they hired me (for a lot less money) but most of my clients stay with me, they prefer consistent and competent support over cheap brillian but sometimes inconsistent support.

also, a lot of college / high school kids tend to take chances (over clocking, on the edge type technology) over tried and true solutions.

 

[Anghang]

Originally posted by: Descartes
The problem is that so many ITers satisfy the technical facet of the IT industry and completely fail to even realize the business facet; you have to have both to realize a fruitful career. This does not mean management; rather, it just means providing additional business value that decouples them from the technical details that you also satisfy. Show an ability to add business value through technical innovation and you'll most definitely hit six figures.

Originally posted by: Svnla
The day of just doing "your job" and then go home is over. You have to be nimble, be flexible, be ready/willing/able to change. You have to think "outside the box" and ready to solve any types of problems for your company business/clients business.

These statements hold a lot of truth for me and my current career...:thumbsup:

 

[skyking]

I just got an offer for a company I do consulting for. I suppose part of the reason I got that offer is because I have been a "go to" guy who will tackle any problem, and fix it.
Being boxed in by your job description is a sure way of remaining stagnant. By all means you need a description and expectations, but by expressing the willingness to step up, learn new things and re-write that description, you will have added value to any employer.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: skyking
I just got an offer for a company I do consulting for. I suppose part of the reason I got that offer is because I have been a "go to" guy who will tackle any problem, and fix it.
Being boxed in by your job description is a sure way of remaining stagnant. By all means you need a description and expectations, but by expressing the willingness to step up, learn new things and re-write that description, you will have added value to any employer.

There is a lot of value in that. In software we'd call it separation of concerns; one decomposes a problem into its fundamental units and delegates each problem unit to the most appropriate handler. One unit need not know about another, and I usually joke with my software people by saying "You're breaking encapsulation" when they spill details of what their problem. By not focusing on how other units solve their problems I am more focused on my own.

Why the metaphor? By being a "go to guy" you are essentially allowing them to delegate full technical responsibility to you, and in so doing you allow them to focus on what they do best, whatever that might be. They are separating their concerns, and this will result in a great degree of confidence and loyalty in your services.

So, if you refer to my post above, the "go to guy" element satisfies the business facet. Your ability to carry the problem to a suitable technical solution solves the other facet. Doing both is a winning combination, and the only thing limiting your success at this point would be an [in]ability to market your own ability.

All IMO and IME (in my experience) of course.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: skyking
I just got an offer for a company I do consulting for. I suppose part of the reason I got that offer is because I have been a "go to" guy who will tackle any problem, and fix it.
Being boxed in by your job description is a sure way of remaining stagnant. By all means you need a description and expectations, but by expressing the willingness to step up, learn new things and re-write that description, you will have added value to any employer.

There is a lot of value in that. In software we'd call it separation of concerns; one decomposes a problem into its fundamental units and delegates each problem unit to the most appropriate handler. One unit need not know about another, and I usually joke with my software people by saying "You're breaking encapsulation" when they spill details of what their problem. By not focusing on how other units solve their problems I am more focused on my own.

Why the metaphor? By being a "go to guy" you are essentially allowing them to delegate full technical responsibility to you, and in so doing you allow them to focus on what they do best, whatever that might be. They are separating their concerns, and this will result in a great degree of confidence and loyalty in your services.

So, if you refer to my post above, the "go to guy" element satisfies the business facet. Your ability to carry the problem to a suitable technical solution solves the other facet. Doing both is a winning combination, and the only thing limiting your success at this point would be an [in]ability to market your own ability.

All IMO and IME (in my experience) of course.

Flexibility is huge. I got a job at a small company recently as a sales guy. I didn't want to be a sales guy; I wanted to be an IT guy. But, I was willing to start in sales and do a little bit of IT work and see where it went. My boss recently told me that he hired me because I was willing to be flexible. He said he had 40 or 50 resumes of IT people applying and that I was the only one who got in, because I was willing to do something a little different than what I wanted. He needed a sales guy then, not an IT guy, and even though I wasn't much of a sales guy, I was willing to learn.

I think you can't always expect to get exactly what you want in the workplace. Sometimes, maybe mostly, you have to work your way up or get in another way and wait for opportunities. I'm not in my ideal position, but I only just finished my second year of college. There's plenty of room to grow and I'm learning a lot about business in general. What Descartes was saying about needing some business knowledge is very true. I'm in a position to learn about my company, how it works, and how business works. Once I get a good handle on that I'll be able to offer real IT solutions that I can work on in the future. Remember, every job is temporary, even if you're there for a long time.

 

[skyking]

Why the metaphor? By being a "go to guy" you are essentially allowing them to delegate full technical responsibility to you, and in so doing you allow them to focus on what they do best, whatever that might be. They are separating their concerns, and this will result in a great degree of confidence and loyalty in your services.

The metaphor seemed to fit what I do and have done for the company. It is an old school phrase from and old school guy😱

Doing both is a winning combination, and the only thing limiting your success at this point would be an [in]ability to market your own ability.

I am working that angle right now. The initial offer is a bit low, and I know they need the help. My bro and I are discussing what additional duties I can do to justify my counteroffer. He has some great suggestions, since he purchased his business from the same company.

 

[OffTopic1]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: acemcmac
I keep reading one guy who's a habitual writer for Information Week who says that if you are looking for advancement in your company, get the hell out of IT

how is that any different from engineering??

almost every engineer i know that has done very very well, has gone out and gotten an MBA and moved to management.

face it, no one pays you well to do actual work, you have to get into management or sales (marketing) in order to make the big bucks.

So true, that why I got out of IT and am now doing labor work.

Currently working for myself as a builder/general contractor and the profit per house is roughly $120K here locally, and it is possible to build 3-4 houses per year once I'm good at management. The housing market is very hot at the moment that why the profit margin is over $100K per house, however $35K profit per house at the weakest market point (early 80s market crash) isn't shaby either.

 

[DaiShan]

I'm in college and do tech support/NOC because I make more than twice what my friends make. After college I'm going to law school and getting the hell out of IT. It's the difference between $16 an hour and $500 an hour...

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: DaiShan
I'm in college and do tech support/NOC because I make more than twice what my friends make. After college I'm going to law school and getting the hell out of IT. It's the difference between $16 an hour and $500 an hour...

How many lawyers bill and make $500/hr? Not many, even if you're a partner. If you think you're going to hit that pay range you'll probably be as disappointed as you would be with your $16/hr.

You can make as much or more in IT as you could as a lawyer (going with the median income, not partner-level income).

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: DaiShan
I'm in college and do tech support/NOC because I make more than twice what my friends make. After college I'm going to law school and getting the hell out of IT. It's the difference between $16 an hour and $500 an hour...

How many lawyers bill and make $500/hr? Not many, even if you're a partner. If you think you're going to hit that pay range you'll probably be as disappointed as you would be with your $16/hr.

You can make as much or more in IT as you could as a lawyer (going with the median income, not partner-level income).

My father, and all of the partners at the firm I was a runner for last summer. It all depends on what type of law you practice, if you do personal injury, good luck, if you do patent (gotta get that engineering degree) then its even more, corporate litigators, same thing, your statement is basically akin to saying help desk doesn't make 6 figures, so no one in IT makes 6 figures. It all depends on what you do, and your skill set.

 

[LordSnailz]

T

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: DaiShan
I'm in college and do tech support/NOC because I make more than twice what my friends make. After college I'm going to law school and getting the hell out of IT. It's the difference between $16 an hour and $500 an hour...

How many lawyers bill and make $500/hr? Not many, even if you're a partner. If you think you're going to hit that pay range you'll probably be as disappointed as you would be with your $16/hr.

You can make as much or more in IT as you could as a lawyer (going with the median income, not partner-level income).

My father, and all of the partners at the firm I was a runner for last summer. It all depends on what type of law you practice, if you do personal injury, good luck, if you do patent (gotta get that engineering degree) then its even more, corporate litigators, same thing, your statement is basically akin to saying help desk doesn't make 6 figures, so no one in IT makes 6 figures. It all depends on what you do, and your skill set.

I didn't say "no lawyer", I said "not many."

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Svnla
I have to agree with Descartes. The day of just doing "your job" and then go home is over. You have to be nimble, be flexible, be ready/willing/able to change. You have to think "outside the box" and ready to solve any types of problems for your company business/clients business.

This has always been the case. If you want to get promoted, you have to do your job well and do more than expected.

That being said, IT has been quite nice to me over the years.